DIY Driver tune up / DIY fitting

[magnus7319]

Ahhh I see. Many thanks Howard. You’re the best.

[Wardonation]

Howard if I am missing my driver thin and on heel side at 44.5" D5, could I add more length? Sorry if you answered this already...

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Not Howard, but my understanding is heel side is too heavy or too long (or combo of the two).

[mwilkins25]

Hey Howard, I just want to be sure I am reading/using this correctly. On my backstroke, if the head of my putter moves out away from my body and over the paper, I add more weight to the grip side, right?

Also, I choke down on my putter about 1". If I get it cut down 1/2", I should expect the amount of counter weighting to change, right?

[Howard_Jones]

YES on question #1, Yes again, the effect goes down, not much but for some enough to be "off", so do the test and tune up after length adjustment is done. (post #9 on page 1 in this tread)

[evilelf]

I just wanted to give my props for this post Howard. This is great stuff. Thanks.

[JJgolfwrx]

@evilelf sharing his knowledge is truly a gift. I always enjoy your content @Howard_Jones! Hope everyone is in good health on the forums today.

[mwilkins25]

Hey Howard, me again...I am going to do your total weight test but wanted to confirm one thing. I should use the heaviest iron in my bag, or my PW, for this, right?

[Howard_Jones]

Nope....TOTAL is related to play lengths, so if you actually fit to play a SW matched set with constant weight shafts, weight progression is 7 grams pr club or 14 grams pr inch, so it does not matter if its the #3 iron or the PW, if weight is to high, that visible error (hips not rotating and shoulder dropping) will be visible on both the PW and the #3 iron. i actually suggest you use the longest iron since thats the one with highest MOI or actual resistance in a set thats SW matched

So weight itself tells nothing, we have to relate it to a certain play length before the numbers gives any meaning, and the PW always has a higher weight than the longest iron, but they are not suppose to "feel different" but "equal", thats why we use different weight specs depending on club, its actually to make the feel the same, not different.

[Crn50]

Trying this process as it makes sense to me, I'm 70 recovering from a long serious illness so need to maximize my clubs. I have a Taylormade M3 driver Callaway 3-4 and 5 woods/hybrid and Nickent irons.

 

I've recently started learning about club fitting, because I can't afford to get a Club Pro to change shafts grips etc.

 

Thanks again for sharing this knowledge, much appreciated.

 

Cheers Colin from NZ..

[hagimihale]

Fantastic read @Howard_Jones Greatly appreciate all you've put into this thread over the years.
One of your posts spoke about the equivalent swingweight, when moving from irons to driver. I believe you noted 1.33 SWP pr inch.
The one club in my bag that feels perfect is a 19* 818H2 hybrid. Tensei Pro White 90x shaft, 40.5". D3 swingweight.
If I apply your equation, and want to get the equivalent SW for a driver at 44", I think it looks something like this:
44 - 40.5 = 3.5" difference in length between the shafts. 1.33 x 3.5 = 4.66 SW increase (from the hybrid SW of D3), or a D7/D8 SW for my driver.
Does that seem about right as a starting SW to test?

[Howard_Jones]

We can use the formula 1.33 SWP pr inch WITHIN a "group" of clubs - IRONS - HYBRIDS - WOODS, but we should NOT use it from one group to the other....

If we MOI match a full bag, we would normally have irons with the lowest MOI value, Hybrids a little higher, Woods higher than Hybrids, and the Driver as the club with highest MOI, so we DONT want to have the same MOI on the driver and the irons...and we CANT focus on MOI or SW alone, we have to look at TOTAL weight progression who is more important, so its close to impossible to simplify this and just build by 1.33 SWP and think we can make it...

All you get is a "starting point for testing", NOT for building, so dont stretch the use of that formula, we cant and should not do it.

plus you have tuned it upside down, meaning IF we could use it, the driver would have LOWER SW value than the woods and hybrids, so we go UP with 1.33 SWP when we go shorter, and down with 1.33 SWP/inch when we go longer.

We should NOT do that, but keep this WITHIN each group of clubs.

Starting point for testing of your driver would be D3 like your hybrid, but that does not mean you will end there. The difference in total weight, the shafts balance point, and what play length difference there is between that hybrid and your driver is all parameters that matters, and is of more importance than SW values who really makes no sense, so dont navigate by them from one group of clubs to the others, they are only useful within a group of clubs where we use the same shaft wgt or have a shaft weight progression of max 5 grams pr inch.

Each club in the bag is really a fitting object of its own, and that goes for ALL parameters, and no short cuts duplicating values from one club or group of clubs exist since total weight progression can be anything from 10.5 to 22 grams pr inch, and then all bets are off for all other values....

[hagimihale]

Understood, and thank you for the clarification. That's what I was looking for, a starting point for testing.

[lookylookitzadam]

@Howard_Jones am I correct in understanding that once I find the VCOG on the face that it is a horizontal axis that runs across the face? If that is indeed the case, does it follow that the strike position should be vertically centered on that line (axis) slightly toe side for optimal PTR?

I am chasing spin reduction so it seems like I should aim to try and impact at the VCOG or mishit above it-is that correct?

[Howard_Jones]

The VCOG test sends you "high enough" on the face to cut off spin, you will be OVER VCOG when you are there.

When we do the test "face down", the club heads loft sends us higher on the face than VCOG actually is

The test will send us to the top of that yellow triangle, while in address position, COG is at the bottom of it.

Its no fixed number for how much that is, since its depending on loft and RCOG, but we can use 3/8" as a general guideline., meaning if we with the pen test find VCOG 3/8" above the center line, then COG is actually "dead center" in address position.

 

 

 

i hope this illustration (below) makes better sense now?

The RED smiley is really in height with COG at address position. the Green smiley is in level with or slightly above where we find VCOG with the pen method.

During play, its a question of the direction COG is traveling at the moment of impact, this is where negative vs positive AOA comes into it all.

If we have a negative AOA, COG become "higher" than COG in the ball, and with a positive AOA (depening on how much in both cases) we get COG below the COG in the ball, so its still VERTICAL GEAR EFFECTs who is the ruler of spin, all due to the height of VCOG and its direction of travel vs COG in the ball.

The reason for why the RED smiley (ideal for FADE) is heel side, and the GREEN (ideal for DRAW), is toe side, is because COG moves between heel and toe with path and face angle. When we have a face thats closed to path, COG moves toe side, (travel direction of COG), and when we have a face angle thats open to path, it moves heel side.

So, crazy enough, the highest ball speed for a draw, (if face COR on that spot allows),is with a FADE bias head, and for a fade its a Draw bias head, since thats what gives us a COG as directly behind the ball as possible for maximized power transfer.

The reason for why the GREEN smiley is higher than the RED, is the "club speed lines" on the face.

When we go heel side, we must go down to stay on the same club speed line, and when we go toe side we must go higher up to stay on the same club speed line. This illustration is BAD, this line is about 60* on the face '(90* angle from the shaft, since its "length" from the grip = speed, its all about)

[Crn50]

Wish I understood your shorthand ??

[Howard_Jones]

Sorry, English is not my language, im Norwegian/ Danish, so please explain what is it you dont understand and i will try my best to explain.

if it was COG, RCOG and VCOG its simple.

COG is Center of gravity

When we measure "how high or low" it is vs the leading edge, we call that measurement VERTICAL Center of gravity.

When we measure how far behind the face it is located, we call it REARWARD Center of gravity.

Its still only-"1 center of gravity", but we measure it from 2 different directions or axises.

[Howard_Jones]

ahhhh, i think i get it, if its this signs i have marked with YELLOW, its a lack of compability between the new and the old forum platform, so some of the HTML code who "build each page" and shall NOT be visible for the reader becomes visible. I will have to delete all those manually, but i cant take them all today, just "overlook them"

< br/> as HTML code simply means BREAK / LINE SHIFT, and its NOT suppose to be visible, its its only a message to your browser so it can display the page right.

[Crn50]

Thanks really appreciate your help, I'm 70 but just recently started this club fitting for myself. Good therapy after a loooooong illness, enjoying reading all the feedback on this Forum....

[Kyle3]

If I shorten the shaft with a 12g weight in it. Should I now go to a 14g weight now?

I use the Titleist 917 D2 driver

[Howard_Jones]

If you talk head weight adjustments, you would know whats needed if you followed the instructions given in post #1 in this tread.

[JJgolfwrx]

This is great stuff @Howard_Jones , thank you for this article. There was some concepts I didn't understand about the club head cog and face to path!

[Howard_Jones]

COG travels strait forward with the direction of path, face angle moves COG heel or toe side.

When we as example wants to hit a draw, we do that with a path thats in to out, and a face angle slightly closed to path. In that scenario, COG will be a tad toe side on the face, and if we want to hit a fade, we do that with a path out to in, and face angle open to path, who moves COG a tad heel side. The longer RCOG is, the more it moves against heel and toe when we change face angle

 

[JJgolfwrx]

Oh I meant that there were things I didn't know before reading your article. I appreciate for your reply though and reiterating!

[dlow206]

@Howard_Jones - i find myself that i keep coming back to this thread, one of the best threads on WRX. I have a question for you. I always thought that I had a smooth swing, but someone I played with who is a good player told me swinging too hard and trying to hit the ball to far with driver. I am now confusing myself between the concept of tempo vs. smooth/aggressive transition. To describe my swing, I have a slow backswing, feel like a pause at the top (its not noticeable on video), and from the top I swing for the fences. Would this mean aggressive transition? 

 

Also, my typical contact pattern tends to be high center and high toe (not extreme toe). Almost never off the heel. My good shot is either straight or small power fade, usually low to mid trajectory. My miss is high push fade. When my tempo gets too quick, I tend to miss more right (push slice). 

 

I am playing a Ventus Red Velocore 5S. I am wondering if I need to go to a heavier shaft. I am not even sure why I am playing a shaft in the 50 gram category, but when I am playing well, it works.

[Howard_Jones]

Tempo = Time in seconds (0.8  Fast- 1.0 medium - 1.2 slow - We talk time from address to impact)
Smooth - Medium - Aggressive is use of power
...they are connected, so we dont normally see a combo thats fast and smooth, but slow and aggressive is seen often where the player "takes his time" on the back swing, and have a explosive transition (sounds like you), but weight or flex is parameters we should be able to identify the need for anyway. 
A Weight to low often slows down the back swing, the player is "seeking" (try to sence where the shaft is), and you have a idea that weight might be to low, then just add lead tape to that shaft and try some more weight to see if that feels and works better.

[dlow206]

19 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Tempo = Time in seconds (0.8  Fast- 1.0 medium - 1.2 slow - We talk time from address to impact)
Smooth - Medium - Aggressive is use of power
...they are connected, so we dont normally see a combo thats fast and smooth, but slow and aggressive is seen often where the player "takes his time" on the back swing, and have a explosive transition (sounds like you), but weight or flex is parameters we should be able to identify the need for anyway. 
A Weight to low often slows down the back swing, the player is "seeking" (try to sence where the shaft is), and you have a idea that weight might be to low, then just add lead tape to that shaft and try some more weight to see if that feels and works better.

 

Thanks. I probably over exaggerated describing my transition. After what feels like a pause at the top, I feel like I am making a big swing for the fences.

 

Thanks for the tip on adding the lead tape to the shaft. I forgot about trying that.

[BigBlue7]

Just stumbled upon this old thread.  So much amazing information in this thread.

 

Thank you @Howard_Jones!

[Puttersaurus Rex]

@Howard_Jones hope you are doing well!

 

As I am reading this thread about the tenth time, I am trying to dive deeper in your visual fitting comments.  You mentioned these are just a guide, and not hard set-rules.  Am I off base on the below "general" statements about club weight?  Caveat, the below statements are not in reference to swing flaws that can also cause issues.  Also, the below is not about stiffness or profile of shaft.

 

Club is too heavy:

- club will be "frozen" at the top, and has to be "pulled free

-Hips do not rotate, and the left shoulder drops (if a right handed golfer).  Hips and back slide towards target

-Too heavy total weight may result in heel side contact

-Too heavy total weight may result in thin shots

 

Club is too light:

-golfer will not have good timing or rhythm.  Can be erratic.

-golfer will slow back swing to "feel" the club.

-Too light total weight may result in toe side contact

-Too light total weight may result in fat shots.

 

Anything else we can add to the above? 

[Howard_Jones]

Correct to:
Heavy = Fat
Light = Thin

The hip rotation needs a trained eye. We all have some hip movement target line, its when this movement becomes "violent" (jump start the club), and the players hip rotation simply get out of timing for that reason, so he will struggle to get his hips into position with the right timing vs impact, so if timing seems difficult, pay extra attention to weight and how he turns the club on the top.
(over swinging = to low feedback of shaft and head weight - jump starting or to aggressive = too heavy or too stiff)