Manuel De La Torre Swing Focus

[juststeve]

Who started the "take away talk"? Both hands swing the club head ove your trail shoulder. See where you finish when you do just that and allow your body to respond.

[chippa13]

And I love that it is just that simple.

[dlygrisse]

Big lightbulb moment for me. Swing the CLUBHEAD over the trail shoulder! I was swinging the entire club over the trail shoulder, it is a different intent, that give different results. You feel much more coil by thinking clubhead, the plane also seems to be better.

[juststeve]

That's what Manny taught, club head over the trail shoulder with both hands. Doing that puts me in what I would describe as a nice compact position at the top. Others might call that connected. Any other back swing intent leaves me wit too much slack in my swing.

Steve

[garyt]

Me too! but I was thinking swing the hands over the right shoulder. Much easier to just get the clubhead there. Not sure if it was just bad reading comprehension on my part or if the info I read had it wrong.

[tm3]

I've had the same kind of thing happen, which is why I periodically re-read parts of the book. Yesterday I came across a nugget that I have absolutely no recollection of reading before and I'm anxious to get to the practice range and play with it.

 

The book is kind of deceiving in its simplicity and it's important to try to understand and implement exactly as MLDT wrote. It sure would be valuable to have the help of an in person coach as far as keeping on track but juststeve is doing a pretty good job as a substitute!

[garyt]

So now I'm a bit confused again. If I swing the clubhead over the right shoulder do I stop when the clubhead gets there? That's a pretty short swing,no?

[games]

Depends on how much turn you have in the backswing.

[lsh]

I have tried this method a few times the past 6 years. Bought the book and had a lesson. I have had some positive results but am easily distracted by shiny things. I have read through this entire thread over the last couple days and am recommitting myself. I planed to walk 9 before work this morning and give it a go. While hurrying around loading the vehicle I shut my right thumb in the rear hatch. I played anyway. Being right handed I thought it would not be an issue since it was the lower hand. It was a bit painful and wound up keeping it lifted off the grip. I only played 7 holes but was 1 over through those holes. Six pars , 1 bogey. My friend playing with me said he was going to carry a hammer and hit my thumb when I started playing poor

Steve H

[Chazb]

I was watching the 2006 British open this morning on the golf channel and watching Ernie and Demarco I noticed no left heel coming off the ground and they seemed to take the club back with just cocking of the hands getting the club head over the right shoulder.It looked so simple with no strain on your body just a nice easy swing.

[garyt]

But since you're just reacting to the arm swing in the MDLT swing wouldn't everybody basically turn the same? Flexibility wouldn't be a factor at that short a swing. Maybe I don't get it.

[chippa13]

The path the clubhead takes is to travel over your back shoulder. How far it travels depends on you.

[jons1]

As soon as you introduce tension in the shoulders and use the upper body to propel the club you are introducing all kinds of issues. No matter what it looks like on film or photos, the primary power source will always be the arms and forearms with free shoulder and wrist joints. People are doing all kinds of crazy things in the swing, "firing the hips" and "letting the big muscles swing the little muscles"... it makes absolutely no sense. There is not one other athletic activity that a person would ever do those things... not one. I don't know how golf instruction went so far off the rails along the way. With that said, there are lots of great instructors out there that teach things correctly and understand kinesthetics and the sources of power, even if they aren't pushing the Ernest Jones / Manuel De La Torre method.

[tm3]

Right or wrong, I think that Jim Flick's explanation made a lot of sense. He said that the key to success was learning how to swing the club while letting the body react (sound familiar?). He then went on to say that once this was mastered and consistent, he could introduce refinements in body mechanics that would make the swing more efficient and more powerful.

 

I think that the problem with most current golf instruction is putting the cart before the horse, ie, an emphasis on refining body mechanics BEFORE the student has learned how to swing the club properly.

[The Pearl]

I wonder if JustSteve would address a swing that is too long and across the line with some arm collapse. I know his usual remedy is to try to keep the hands as far away from you as possible, but it does not seem to resonate with me.....

[juststeve]

Too long and accross the line are not necessarily swing flaws as Manny Taught. The club is parallel to the target line whenever it is horizontal. This means in the back swing if the club is short of horizontal the club will appear laid off, and if past horizontal it will appear to be across the line.

The question is what is causing your too long and across the line? Are you losing control of the club at the end of your back swing? Are you failing to keep your left arm extended, not stiff bot extended? Are you failing to keep your right hand away from your head. Are you losing your posture? Are you letting your swing center drift? If it's none of these things then long and across the line just gives you more room to build speed, not a bad thing.

Steve

[juststeve]

Everyone turns but the amount of turn varies with the individuals flexibility and range of motion.

Steve

[juststeve]

Manny himself took the club back to horizontal and most of his students did the same. Swining the club head over your trail shoulder refers to the direction you swing the club, not how far to swing the club.

Steve

[juststeve]

Manny would tell you that once the club is swinging you should just leave it alone. That's probably what you did, maybe for the first time in you life.

Steve

[lsh]

i suspect you are right. Since my previous post I found out the last bone in my thumb is broken. I have an appt with the bone Dr tomorrow. I played 18 Sunday. The results were not as good as before but still promising considering the circumstances. I had quite a few birdie chances but only made 2. I also had 3 double bogies because I did factor in enough for the swinging easier so I did not take enough club then screwed up the chip.

By the time I finished 18 the thumb was throbbing. Likely from a couple time I hit down too steep on very dry and hard ground, and banging it on club heads.

Been icing it regularly. I hope it is a little less sore by the weekend. Our club championship is Fri, Sat, & Sun and I am looking forward to playing.

[The Pearl]

Almost certainly losing control of the club. My grip is loosing at the top of the swing. On some shots, mostly the longer clubs I can feel an occasional "regripping" going on in transition.

[juststeve]

I had that problem once in the past. Just know way to predict what the ball will do if the club is changing in your hands, or my hands at the time. The way I fixed it was by taking my grip and hitting a little shot, then hitting the same shot againg without reforming the grip. When I could do that I worked up gradually to full shots, applying the same hit another shot test. Took a bit of work but cured a serious fault.

Steve

[The Pearl]

Agree. I get away with it because it is not on every shot and much more prevelant with the driver, 3w/4w. Scoring clubs are not a problem. But it does rear it's ugly head a couple times a round.

 

Thanks for the help!

[jons1]

 

https://youtu.be/MRnjedSebWY23:30

[Nels55]

Thanks for the link, I had not seen that video!

Seems that the drill of holding the club in the forefinger and thumb of one hand and letting it swing back and forth has value in finding the resonant frequency of the golf club. Also seems to fit with Earnest Jones assertion that good golf is played to perfect Waltz timing.

Very similar curves were generated when I had lessons using a Flightscope system. LOL my early acceleration on the downswing was very obvious and when I could swing in a way that would generate better curves I would hit the ball better with a lot less effort. I recall my instructor saying that if I could maintain my acceleration from the top on my poor swings I would have had some incredible clubhead speed at impact, I think around 150 or maybe 200 mph LOL.

I like his mentioning that Physics meets Zen in the end! Pretty cool stuff!

[lsh]

Had 9 hole league last night. I played 9 holes before and hit several poor shots in a row. After one in particular I realized I was not staying centered. Focused on maintaining even distribution between feet and my head steady. Ball striking improved dramatically. League play is point quota. First hole I hit a great tee shot. My partner hit what he thought was his ball. I could not find mine so I dropped one in the fairway and played 4 from there. Had a 6 with the penalty, no points. When my partner putted out I picked up the ball and noticed it was mine )-: Neither of us scored on that hole. From then on I had 1 bogey and 7 pars. And struck the ball very well.

I finally got in to the bone Dr. she put a hard plastic cover with some kind of self sticking wrap over my thumb. I still had to hold it up off the shaft when I gripped but it gave me some protection. If I hit the ground a little hard it hurt like the dickens. By the end or the round it was throbbing and was this morning. I iced it while watching the depressing national news And it feels pretty good right now.

I am sold on the effectiveness and simplicity of the Swing when done properly.

Steve H

[Jersey golfer]

I am sold on the effectiveness and simplicity of the Swing when done properly.

Steve H

 

The last three words of your sentence are the key!

[juststeve]

You are so right. It matters not what swing concept you adopt, you must execute correctly. I would contend however that there is no method easier to execute than the one Manny taught.

Steve

[The Pearl]

Regarding the physics discussion.

 

Start at about the 23 min mark:

[lsh]

A question about focus during forward swing. Do you look at a dimple on the ball to swing through? do you look at a quadrant? Top of the ball? The ball is out of focus and you are focused on the path of the swing through the area the ball is sitting?

Steve H