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who has actually played with a legit scratch golfer/pro level player?


NM44

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It depends, like everything in golf.

Scratch club players (players at your club with a vanity + to a one handicap) They play 4-5 holes like a world beater, but have too many doubles each round and don't turn in their bad scores.Scratch club guys (players at your club with a legitimate + to a one handicap if they do not play in state wide events) Most of them blow up in those events, unless they have previously been a higher ranking.Scratch state amateur guys (Div 2 and lower as well)1's that don't turn in their bad scores are mostly mental midgets and fold like a cheap lawn chair with any kind of decent pressure. 1's that turn in all of their scores can be mental midgets or they may just not practice enough and therefore their wild shots are just too wild and their short game isn't polished enough to save them.

2's aren't mental midgets, but have never played in true tournament settings and many of them do not have the ability to succeed here. Or maybe they do have it, but don't do it enough, it depends on their makeup as a player. their short game is normally better than 1's and don't hit as many truly wild shots.

3's are pretty good mentally. They are pretty decent wedge players, and their shortgame is on point. They have maybe a shot that goes wild once a round. There is tournament golf and then their is tournament golf, followed by tournament golf, a little more tournament golf and then tournament golf at the top. Statewide vs, nationwide vs. MINIS vs. KFerry vs. PGA

 

In general, which is really hard to say when you are looking through groups of golfers, Mental game, short game, and misses get better as you move higher in the bracket. I played a couple of Nike events and was a 4 to 5 at best. I rarely hit a drive out of the treeline, and hit probably 65% of the fairways) and was longer than most everyone I played with. I was mentally tough, I had a good short game. I was pin high with almost all of my iron shots. All of these I was at a 5+ level. My short and mid irons I was a 2 or worse, sure I was pin high, but I missed way too many greens with 9 through LW and didn't hit nearly enough inside of 10 feet.

i struggled when we played short courses and I always placed better at events where we played courses over 7,100 yards and I loved playing in tough conditions.

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One of my team mates from college still carries a +3 handicap. I don't invite him to the best ball tournaments.

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I’ve played with two mini tour golfers. It’s like a whole different game watching them play. I walked nine holes with one of them once, and he shot like -5 under on the front nine, and acted like it was nothing, a common occurrence. Lol. I don’t know that game. I caddied once for a friend in a Nationwide Mini tour event (back before it was KornFerry). I watched one of the guys in the group try to drive the green on a dogleg par 4. He turned it over left too much and went OB. He teed it up again, and smoked it over the trees and the corner of the dogleg, onto the green, then made the putt for par. A whole different game these guys play, lol.

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I just played in the Texas Amateur Championship qualifier Sunday and played with a 22 year old +4. I'm a 47 year old scratch. His tee ball just disappeared. His wedge game was spot on. His iron game was spot on. His putting was spot on. His mental game absolutely killed him though. Neither of us shot the number to make it through.

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I used to work at a club where the pro was one of the best club pros in the province. This club was the home course for a current PGA player who at the time was on whatever the Korn Ferry tour was called back then. This club pro used to regularly beat the PGA player. Never knew his handicap but I would guess he was at least a +5 on that course. I played with him a few times and it was a level of mastery I had never seen before or since. Drives were all over 300, but as others have alluded to with players like this, his wedge game was absurdly good. It helped he knew every green intimately but he could throw darts with his eyes closed. Apparently he was content being a club pro so he never had serious designs on making a go on a pro tour.

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Couple weeks ago played with a 1.7. Kid showed up to the fancy country club course in worn out untied sketcher sneakers and cargo shorts with what looked like his grandpa's ping eye's

340yd par 4 to start and puts it on the green and makes the 20ft eagle putt. goes bogey free 4 under after the first 9.

Definitely judged the book by its cover.

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  • 5 weeks later...

About 10 years ago I was playing a lot and pretty well...I didn’t carry an official handicap, but I was around 0 or maybe just into the +.  I played in a club championship with a good D1 college player who would go on to play the Mackenzie Tour, the Latioamerica Tour and a season on the Korn Ferry Tour.  I shot 71-70 (-3) and finished 4th and he shot 66-62 (-16) and won by 8.  I played with him the 2nd day when he shot 62 and he was past me by 50 off the tee all day.  Mid to short irons into par 5s and partial wedges into all the par 4s.  
 

If you ever get the opportunity to play a competitive round with a real player take it.  It puts the game at the professional level into perspective.

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Yep, I do every week

He plays from the back tees, hits a high mini fade, misses very few fairways, he's either pin high or just below the hole on approach shots, good putter.

Rare if he shoots over 72. I've seen him go as low as 64 . And  only plays once maybe twice a week.  And he's 60 years old.  Super nice guy with no ego.

 

 

 

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A couple weeks ago on a wide open course a single catches us (me and my buddy) on 10.  We waive him up from the fairway and he blasts one down the middle from the tips.  He says he is only going to play to 13 and do we mind if he plays along.  We warn him about the debacle he is about to witness and he proceeds to hit to about 2 feet from 120. 

 

We find out he is a greenskeeper there (San Ignacio Golf Club, Green Valley, AZ) on a day off practicing for the Arizona Amateur Championship starting in a couple days near Scottsdale.

 

On 13 he says if we didn't mind he would just finish out with us since he had a pretty good round going.  He had added at least one birdie since the one on 10.  I complimented him on the tactic of saying he was only playing to 13 in case you find out the idiots you joined were unbearable then you could quit with no hard feelings.

 

At 18 he mentioned that he had finished out at 6 under and I saw at least 3 birdies on the back.  Nice kid about 125lbs, effortless swing 30yds past us and he was usually starting 20 or more behind hitting from the tips.  Never missed a fairway.  He just got a full ride playing golf for a division II college in Durango CO.  Fort Lewis College.

 

I checked on the AAC in Scottsdale and he didn't make the cut but I figure he was a legit plus cap.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A friend of mine was a +2 or 3. He played, unsuccessfully, on the European Tour in the 1980s for a couple of years. He's played in the British Amateur and the US Amateur (after getting his am. status back), and most recently qualified and played in the US Senior Open (missed the cut) a few years back. 

He was amazingly long off the tee and was a strong iron player. His putting was very good but not great. 

One time I was playing with him and another friend, a 1.5, felt saucy and bet he could outdrive the +2. So 1.5 nuts a drive and Mr. 1.5 was pretty long. Well +2 steps up, pounds it, and +2's ball was still near its apex when it passed 1.5's ball. I just started laughing. 

I liken it to Major League Baseball. There are a lot of can't miss prospects and really talented guys who get stuck in AA or AAA or run out of options. It is a heartbreakingly thin margin, when you are really talented at golf, between a day job and the Tour.  

Even though Tour courses are set up much more difficult than a muni, my friend easily broke 70 every time we played.

I think it was his putting. It was just not quite there. 

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I played a round with an LPGA player.  She played our club from the 6500 yard tees and shot 3 under on a course she had never seen.  And we have quick undulating greens.  It was just the two of us, and while her ball striking was outstanding, the real lesson was in listening to her think about course management.

 

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I joined a club this year and though I never had the chance to play with the club champion, we often play ahead of them and let them play through, he and his dad always play a twosome and we are always four in our group.

 

Whenever we let them play through, either at the first hole or the 18th hole, this guy always seem to find the fairway. When we watch him hit his approach shots, he always is on the green or around the green. He makes it look so easy. What's more amazing is when we see him, say this month at the same hole, I would recall seeing him in May and his drives end up the same spot as before. He is not long by any means, maybe 250 max for his driver, but he is accurate. I guess being that consistent would make you a scratch golfer. 

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I've played with scratch of + handicaps several times.  First time was at the first club I belonged to, and guy was a former Division I player, part-time mini tour guy.  What surprised me about his play is it took me about 9 holes to say to myself, "holy s***, this guy's really good" (I didn't know him or his handicap going in).  He hit the ball decently far but not THAT far, and he wasn't really pin seeking...every shot was just down the middle, then somewhere between 5-10 feet.  

 

There are a couple + handicap guys at my current club (one of them has to play to a +5 during league days, when a lot of older guys play and we play from the "combos").  Unlike the guy above, what stands out is how damn far they hit it.  Just a damn mile.  

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Biggest difference in plus / scratch players and higher-handicapped players is the scale of their misses.

 

The best way to highlight it is to think of a team of four single-handicapped golfers in a scramble. Each of those players is good enough to play a few holes over the course of 18 like a stud. Their safety net in a scramble is that they don't have to play the inevitable giant missed drive or short-sighted approach shot. Collectively, without needing to play one of those big misses, a team like that can comfortably score 4-8 under. If they play well, they can sniff double-digits.

 

Scratch / + Cappers lack those giant misses. When they miss greens, they tend to leave themselves in spots where they have a 50%+ chance of salvaging par. Their tee shots typically leave them, at worse, with a shot to get an approach on the green or in the best area to get up-and-down. They don't compound errors.

 

Now add all that with just a general higher-degree of skill in everything compared to the scramble team and you can see how Scratch / +Cappers build rounds better than most.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've played with quite a few tour pros and high level amateurs as well as really good celebrities who golf due to my line of work.  Will not mention names, but one of them is a well known LPGA tour player.  One of the other ladies played on the Symetra tour and one year on the LPGA tour and our friendship goes all the way back to high school.  Her younger sister made headline news last year winning a high profile amateur tournament.  Another friend of mine played on the UC Riverside golf team and has been to Q school several times.  Another friend I regularly train did play on the Mackenzie tour last year.  There are other people/celebrities I've played with over the years as well.  Lowest round I've witnessed while playing was 5 under at a private cc that my father used to be a member at where the slope rating is 133 from the white tees.  She missed one fairway and 2 GIR and holed everything it seemed. 

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I've been fortunate enough to play with some very high-level players. All I can say is that they come in all shapes and styles. A few examples:

 

D1 Male +4.5 index - Shot 63 in a tournament while paired with me - Flew the ball 330 and genuinely overpowered the course. He was consistently 60 yards ahead of me on tee shots and got himself green side on several Par 4s and with short irons in on his second shot on every Par 5. He had two bogeys and missed three other putts inside 15' and still shot the easiest 63 I've seen. The course was playing about 6,600 yards that day. 

 

Mid-Am Male +2.5 index - This guy has an unconventional looking swing. He's won many big-time tournaments including State Ams, USGA Qs, and lots of local stuff. He might hit the ball 280 but he has one of the most insane short games. His handicap is held at one of the harder local courses 74.5/139. 

 

D1 Male +4 index - Smaller statured kid who is simply a steady eddy. Hits the ball 285 off the tee and looks rather unremarkable aside from flushing all his shots. He's fairways/greens with a good short game and has been in the Top 500 in World Amateur Golf Rankings. 

 

Symmetra Tour Female - Hits the ball 270 off the tee and, like all players her caliber, doesn't mishit a shot. The round I played with her, she hit 17/18 greens and shot a stress-free 68 (-3) from the 3rd set of tees (6,400 yards) 70.2/126.

 

Ex-D1 Male +3 Index - This guy played D1 golf and his brother has conditional TOUR status. He had his C game the day I played with him and he still managed to card Even on a 74.5/139 course. Despite not having his best, he birdied 2/3 Par 5s and always put himself in position to make a par save after missing a green. I was excited to play with him, and he never short-sided himself. When he'd hit a poor tee shot out of position, he would always get his approach near the green on the high-percentage side for a save. It was clinical and really put a stamp on the importance of avoiding double bogeys.

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I played with a 12 year old a few weeks ago and watched him shoot the easiest 2 over I’ve ever seen (and which should’ve been a 2 under in his words). Kid was unbelievable and got everything up and down if he was out of position. This was a course the pro’s used to play yearly so not a point and shoot muni.  Very sobering when a 110 lb 12 year old beats you handedly.   

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I have been fortunate that over the past 20 years to belong to a club that has been recognized as the club having the lowest average handicap in the nation on several occasions, by the USGA and several golf publications. Our members range from a plus 4 to a 14, with the average falling around 6ish. Our championship flight in the club championship was +4 to a 1.8 (25 players). Many of our members compete in the local Metropolitan Section events. As you can imagine we have pretty good games on the weekends as well.

 

 I play many rounds with legit pluses and real low indexes frequently. One thing they all have in common is a solid short game, and the ability to make birdies. I play with guys who hit it 300+ off the tee and just bomb the ball, and I play with guys who has to hit Driver, then Driver off the deck to reach a 425 par four (this guy has qualified and played in USGA Championships  even made our club championship finals beating a guy with 3-4 US Mid Ams and among the top rated Amatuer in the met section). And then there is everyone in between. When comparing the scratch and plus guys to the tour and aspiring tour pros I have either played for or caddied for, consistency and everything is so pure compared to the amateurs. Their bad days are still solid days, I have seen several plus handicappers have days when they posted a number that starts with an 8 (rarely, but once in a while, and throughout their careers), while with a solid tour pro this may only happen 2-3 times in their careers.

 

Below is my group for this Sat game1462756239_Screenshot2020-10-29at12_20_50PM.png.61c00397bf19716cb70b6673b9baa91e.png 

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