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TENSEI AV Raw?


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Is the AV Raw white TX the same shaft as the CK Pro White TX? If not, is the raw considered the successor?

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I’d like to know main difference between CK Pro White & the new AV Raw version. Love the CK Pro White as a FW shaft - curious how similar/different the Raw White would be!?! Thanks !

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TM Qi10 LS 8.25°, Ventus Black 6X, tipped 1”, 44.75” 

TM BRNR Mini Driver at 12° (HWF), HZRDUS Black RDX 70 TX, tipped 1", 43.75"

TM Stealth+ 5w at 18.25°, HZRDUS Black RDX 80 6.5, tipped 1”, 42.5”

2023 Titleist T100 (4-GW), PX 6.0, +1/4”

Vokey SM10 54.12(D), 60.08(M), PX 6.0, +1/4"

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2, 360g, 35"

 

 

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Owned and played both 60TX versions and dialing in the AV Raw as we speak. It is much smoother and you can feel the stiffness in the butt of the shaft. Anti left but it might spin and launch a tad higher but that could be me as well. Definitely no kick like the ZF and stays with you. So far, fantastic 3W shaft and contender for the driver (playing an AD XC 6X in a TS4, trying this in a TS3 for comparison). Sorry, just observations and no trackman numbers. The two shafts feel and seem to perform differently, definitely not just a paint job difference.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can anyone please compare the Pro White 70 stiff vs that AV raw 70 stiff? It seems the TX has the boron in tip but the Pro White does not.

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Callaway AI Smoke TD 10.5 (@ 9.5) Diamana ZF 60S

TM MINI DRIVER??

Callaway Apex UW 19 deg MMT 70 Stiff

TaylorMade Qi10 Tour Rescue #4 AV Limited Blue 75 Stiff

Mizuno JPX 923 HMP 5-PW Project X IO 5.5

Vokey SM10 48F, 56M, ??

Odyssey Dual Force Putter

 

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Has anyone been able to confirm the S or X flex is not the same shaft make up, boron, etc.?

Callaway Paradym 🔷🔷🔷 10.5* with PVD Hulk 60 6.5 TX

Callaway Rogue ST LS 15* Ventus Black 7x

Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus TR Red 8X

Srixon ZX7 4-PW Nippon Modus 120X

Callaway MD4 50* S400 T.I.

Vokey SM9 54.12 S400 T.I.

Vokey SM7 58.10 BO S400 T.I.

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The TX flex is indeed a different shaft material construction. It is retailing at the normal "premium" price of around $360 whereas all the other flexes are around $250.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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It’s the same as the pro orange according to Mitsubishi

Callaway Mavrik SZ 10.5* open 1* D5SW 45 1/4” PO 60TX tipped 1”
Callaway Mavrik SZ 15* 43” PO 80TX tipped 1 1/2”
Taylor Made M3 19* 42” PO 90TX tipped 1 1/2” 
Titleist U500 3 iron 40” PO 100TX tipped 1 1/2”
Titleist T100 4-PW PX LZ 6.5
Vokey SM7 52&60 KBS Tour 125
Cameron Pro Platinum Newport2
Titleist ProV1X and left dash 

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I bought a Tensei Blue AV Raw 65 X to test for $250.

I specifically asked the shop I was buying the shaft from if any of the new AV Raw shafts were “made for” shafts similar to what Fujikura did with TM and the Ventus line.

He told me that according to his Mitsubishi rep, all of these shafts are “premium”, even regular flex. He did say that the TX versions are more expensive because of the material that goes into making the stiffer profile shafts, but said that at the end of the day they’re all considered premium aftermarket shafts, not OEM.

I have played the Ventus Black 6x, Blue 6x, AD DI6x, HZRDUS Smoke green and yellow.. I have a lot to compare it to. Hopefully the AV Raw feels premium.

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

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I wish @MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL would reply to this thread and explain to everybody is the TX version of the shaft is the real deal, or are the all the real deal. You know what we’re talking about lol.

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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It depends on your definition of “real deal”. Shaft OEMs historically have had two offering groups, aftermarket and OEM. The big shift was when most stopped producing exclusive “made for ” in favor of OEM lines that were also sold aftermarket. This approach helped in two ways a) cut down on skus since they were no longer producing exclusive made fors for a particular OEM and b) legitimized the OEM shaft models since they were also being sold aftermarket usually at a $200-300 price point. The reality is that the OEM program shafts today cost about the same to produce per part as the previous made for offerings (in fact, even the highest price point aftermarket offerings rarely reach a production cost that exceeds $20 per part).

In this case, the standard flexes are OEM and the TX flex is flagship aftermarket (willing to bet that they are also produced in a different country even though they are branded under the same line).

Bottom line, it is a waste of time to fret over this. Just go get fit and buy whatever shaft and flex that provides the best result.

 

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I agree with what you're saying, there's just another element of authenticity that really matters to me personally. I get that it's totally opinionated and case-by-case, but I truly believe that a premium shaft will help me play better golf and past testing and research I've done on "made for" and premium shafts proves that there is a difference, especially for strike point consistency.

I had a TaylorMade M3 with the OEM Tensei AV Blue in X flex and that shaft always felt whippy and cheap to me. I've heard from some reviewers that the AV Raw Blue feels completely different from that shaft, which would make me believe they're a totally different design. Either way, the AV Raw Blue 65X will be delivered today. Hopefully I like it, otherwise you'll probably see it on classifieds in a couple of days lol.

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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With exception to the addition of the TX flex which appears to be a different profile, the AV Raw Blue is just a cosmetic change to last year’s AV Blue. There also was no OEM vs aftermarket differentiation for the AV Blue, what was offered stock by OEMs is the same as what MRC offered aftermarket.

Keep in mind that these golf companies thrive on exaggerating the perception of improvement when in reality there is very little difference in quantifiable performance with each new release for the vast majority of the population. The real benefit to the consumer really is more options to choose from in the search for the right fit.

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I hope you're wrong, honestly. I don't know that I agree either, as their is an AV Raw Blue and just an AV Blue that they offer, the descriptions of the shafts are not the same on their website. Hopefully @MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL will come back and answer the question lol but until they do, I'll wait to believe anything.
I also just received my Raw Blue 65X in the mail and got it installed. Haven't been able to take it to the range yet but it looks amazing and has a good feel to it.
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/KFNRNJQWFIL0/img-1017.jpg[/img]
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/YT1P4C24C4B5/img-1018.jpg[/img]

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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Ignore the qualitative marketing descriptions and compare the listed specs on their website, they are the same. What is new are the TX flexes and Orange/White profiles.

Unfortunately it appears that you just purchased the same shaft that you already had (manufacturing tolerances withstanding), but if the new graphics gives you confidence more power to you.

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Again, I appreciate your input here but you're storm319, not Mitsubishi Chemical. Until Mitsubishi Chemical confirms that, nobody will know with 100% confidence if the AV Raw Blue is a different profile/shaft than the old TM OEM AV Blue. I would like to think it is, and coming from somebody that has now hit both shafts (albeit with very different driver heads), they don't feel all that much alike from what I remember.

Still a bit whippy in the tip section for my liking regardless

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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I have no dog in this fight, but to my eyes, the shaft profiles depicted on the MCA website for the AV Blue and AV Raw Blue are not the same. So, my opinion is that the shafts are not the same.

Driver: TaylorMade SIM 8* (standard setting) with MCA Tensei AV Raw Orange 75TX at 44.5"
3W: TaylorMade M5 15* (standard setting) with Oban Devotion 8 O5 at 42"
Hybrid: PXG Gen 2 0317X 19* (standard setting) with Oban Kiyoshi Purple Hybrid O5 at 39.5"
4i-9i: Callaway '18 Apex MB's with KBS C-Taper 130X at 1/4" long
46: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
50: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
54: Callaway JAWS MD5 8C
58: Callaway JAWS MD5 8W
Putter: Kari Lajosi Custom DD201WB

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The scale of those EI profile graphs on their site are inconsistent (ex Diamana+ Limited graph has 13 horizontal lines vs 10 on the Tensei pointing to a scale difference) so you can really only compare models that are on the same graph. Also graphs without numbers to understand the scale make it easy to exaggerate differences.

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I agree that any comparison of different graphs is speculative. However, the AV Blue appears to soften immediately from the butt, whereas the AV Raw Blue appears to get stiffer before softening. Scale and lack of numbers aside, the profiles of these shafts do not appears to be identical.

Driver: TaylorMade SIM 8* (standard setting) with MCA Tensei AV Raw Orange 75TX at 44.5"
3W: TaylorMade M5 15* (standard setting) with Oban Devotion 8 O5 at 42"
Hybrid: PXG Gen 2 0317X 19* (standard setting) with Oban Kiyoshi Purple Hybrid O5 at 39.5"
4i-9i: Callaway '18 Apex MB's with KBS C-Taper 130X at 1/4" long
46: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
50: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
54: Callaway JAWS MD5 8C
58: Callaway JAWS MD5 8W
Putter: Kari Lajosi Custom DD201WB

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And not only that, the profiles for the AV Raw White and Orange are direct copy/pasted from the Tensei CK EI charts.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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Doesn’t that beg the question, then? If the AV Blue and AV Raw Blue are the same, why isn’t the AV Raw Blue profile a copy-and-paste of the AV Blue?

Driver: TaylorMade SIM 8* (standard setting) with MCA Tensei AV Raw Orange 75TX at 44.5"
3W: TaylorMade M5 15* (standard setting) with Oban Devotion 8 O5 at 42"
Hybrid: PXG Gen 2 0317X 19* (standard setting) with Oban Kiyoshi Purple Hybrid O5 at 39.5"
4i-9i: Callaway '18 Apex MB's with KBS C-Taper 130X at 1/4" long
46: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
50: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
54: Callaway JAWS MD5 8C
58: Callaway JAWS MD5 8W
Putter: Kari Lajosi Custom DD201WB

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Sorry I forgot to check, but the AV Raw Blue is actually a copy paste of the CK Blue as well. So basically the EI Profile image on the AV Raw shaft page is literally just copy/pasted from the Tensei CK page with the CK Red removed. It would be nice if @MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL could clear this up, because it would have to be some sort of mistake. Either that, or the AV Raw shafts are literally the same as the OEM CK shafts they are replacing.
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/9LWAPPZFI2MM/screen-shot-2020-07-26-at-7-21-13-pm.png[/img]
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/USNY4SHGL6T0/screen-shot-2020-07-26-at-7-19-02-pm.png[/img]

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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I noticed that, too. And, I wholeheartedly agree that having some professional guidance from @MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL would be incredibly helpful so that half of us can say “I told you so” to the other half. ?

Driver: TaylorMade SIM 8* (standard setting) with MCA Tensei AV Raw Orange 75TX at 44.5"
3W: TaylorMade M5 15* (standard setting) with Oban Devotion 8 O5 at 42"
Hybrid: PXG Gen 2 0317X 19* (standard setting) with Oban Kiyoshi Purple Hybrid O5 at 39.5"
4i-9i: Callaway '18 Apex MB's with KBS C-Taper 130X at 1/4" long
46: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
50: Callaway JAWS MD5 10S
54: Callaway JAWS MD5 8C
58: Callaway JAWS MD5 8W
Putter: Kari Lajosi Custom DD201WB

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I agree 100% it's the same shaft.

As for the TX vs the X/S I asked Mitsubishi on their FBook page and they deleted the post. IMO Their Business model is very bizarre lately.

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Taylormade QI10LS 10.5 (@9.5) Fujikura Ventus Velocore Blue 6S (Testing Velocore + 6S)
Taylormade Stealth 2+ 15 (@14.50) Fujikura Motore Speeder 8.1S Tipped .5"
Callaway Apex "21" 19/3H Aldila Rogue Black TS95 Tipped .5"
Taylormade SLDR 4i DGSLS300S
Taylormade P750 7-PW P770 5i-6i DG AMT White S300
Taylormade MG2 52 DGTIS400, MG4TW 56/12 DGTIS400, & Tour Issued MG3 Hi Toe 60/09 DGTIS200 115
Scotty Cameron TeI3 Long Neck Newport 2 34" (34")
Bridgestone Tour B XS (Testing New TP5x)

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Yeah sorry forgot to update this thread! So there's not a doubt in my mind that this is a different shaft than the old OEM AV Blue, but I definitely think that the TX shaft would be the better option for my driver swing speed 110-113. I can't compare it directly to the old AV blue shaft, but the raw 65 x blue still felt too whippy in the tip and found that it was exaggerating my miss (which is a high right spinner). Still using my AD DI6x which has a very pronounced kick to it but the tip is quite stable for me. Going to try pro white 60 tx next.

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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I definitely have some of that feeling as well, I think the $359 version is the only "real" version of that shaft. The difference between X and TX for Tensei shafts seems minimal in terms of stiffness. I bought a CK Pro White 60 TX from classifieds, but would still like to try Blue, White & Orange in the AV Raw TX version.

TaylorMade SIM 10.5* - HZRDUS "Hulk" PVD Green 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM Max 15* - GD AD-DI 7x

Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* Hybrid - GD AD-DI 85x

TaylorMade P770 4-5 - Project X 6.0

TaylorMade P7MC 6-PW - Project X 6.0

Mizuno T20 50*, 55*, 60* - TI S400

Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

Pro V1x

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