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Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)


Bigmean

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Understood, but...observe any shaft of the same design or model. What you'll find is that the stiffer versions are ALWAYS heavier than their lighter counterparts. This is how you make the shaft of the same exact design stiffer. You add more mass to it. This is how the physics work under that condition.

Other things that can make a shaft have different flex are the materials of construction being different and the literal shape also being different.

They're definitely NOT completely independent. Weight/mass is just one variable, and there's absolutely mathematical correlation that links them together.

And in regards to going lighter and losing consistency... that's why I stated, "the key is to lighten the shaft *without sacrificing on the flex*"...the last part is because I already know y'all are gonna try to nitpick my science. ?

TEE CB2 13* 3w, 43.5", 57g Fujikura Motore F1 X-flex
TEE CB2 15* 3w, 43" 65g Fujikura Motore F1 S-flex
Miura Black Boron 1957 Small Blades 2i-PW, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
Miura Black Wedges 53* and 60*, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
GripMaster Club Maker's Stitchback Grips
34" Piretti Bosa, GripMaster Pistol Grip

Registered Bladeocrat
Outlaw Golf Association Member #7

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I hated science and barely passed it way back when I was in school so I never question anyone's science.

 

Ping G430 Max 10.5

Ping G430 5&7 Wood

Ping G430 19°,22° Hybrids

Callaway 2007 X-Forged 5-PW/ PXG Gen 6 XP's 7-SW

Ping Glide 58ES Wedge

Ping PLD DS72 / Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.5+ 

Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving

 

 

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Interesting discussion folks - the Vapor Fly Pro I picked up still has a future as when I stripe it it fits the gap between the 3 and 4 iron perfectly, I'm just struggling with it a little off the deck, and don't really have the confience it's going to go (roughly) where I aim it compared to my other irons. I shall take it an the other two options to the range this evening to see whats what. I'm thinking it's going to be a trade off - I'm happier with a blade off the deck, but lean towards a cavity off the tee. However with only one hole relaistically needing an iron off the tee, but many long Par 4's needed a 4 / 5 iron for 2nd shots, I do suspect the blade is going to win out.

 

Very interesting thoughts about shaft weight as well - must admit I've been an S400 type of guy for as long as I can remember - to a point now that I don't actually notice what the shaft is doing when I swing it - if that makes sense. I'm definitely noticing the lack of "kick" on the X100, and do wonder if I'm swinging at it harder to replicate that feeling from the S400. Would explain why I'm getting away with it off the tee, but not so much off the deck. A new shaft for the Vapor Fly is definitely an option - from experience I'm slightly less accurate with an S300 so would probably go S400 again. The extra weight seems to smooth out my transition and helps me time the hit properly - I still make up for a couple of technical issues with rhythym and timing, so anything to preserve that really.

The Dee Three - Titleist TS4 9.5 deg, EvenFlow White 6.5 65g, A1 Setting

Henrik - Titleist 917 F3 15 deg, Rogue Max 75x, B2 Setting

The Walking Stick - Titleist 818 H2 19 deg, Rogue Max 85x, B2 Setting

The Interloper - TaylorMade P770 3 iron, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5inch +1 deg loft

The Blades - Nike VR Pro 4 - AW, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5 inch

The Sand Iron - TaylorMade MG2 TW-12 Grind, 56 degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Flopper - TaylorMade MG2 TW-11 Grind, 60 Degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Putter - Nike Method 003 from The Oven

 

"Golf is only called golf as all the other four letter words have been taken"     - Leslie Nielsen

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If all else is equal, that's true, but there are plenty of things that are routinely done such that it isn't always equal. (Hence the "as applied to the shaft market" in my post)

The most obvious example is DGS400 vs DGX100. S400 is heavier than X100, but X100 is stiffer. The difference is slight, but it's there. Perhaps a better example is NV105 stiff vs NV75 X. Aldila tries to keep the flexes uniform among their differing weights in the same shaft model.

Interestingly, it doesn't appear to be that way in the now retired Fuji Motore Speeders. There, the 7.x models were usually noticeably stiffer than the 6.x models.

Tracking all this can be so much fun.

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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It's the joy of having a nerd habit. You just have to know.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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Captain Obvious says, the issue at the long end of the bag is not in the club or shaft , it's all in the swing. When I look how much I actually do practice #3i, pretty clear why it can't be hit it as well as my #5i.

The other thing is. It's too smart by a half to tinker too much with shaft flex & weight progressions throughout the bag. When I finally matched up my Driver setup to one that fully emulates, mirrors, iron specs , it's quite surprising how much easier it was to split the fairway with the stupid thing. My next bag upgrade will be a full set of metals that match within themselves (shaft choice huge) but also to the irons & wedges. In short a bag should be "birds of a feather".

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LMAO it's basically a three variables issue...mass, shape, and materials. That by itself makes it (flex) hard to track but worse yet is the arbitrary "standard" for it. From what I have reverse engineered from manufacturers specs, I ALWAYS see flex defined relative to one model type. The definition of stiff, regular, xstiff, and senior flex only applies to that one shaft model. And moreover it's always the weight that correlates to that particular stiffness. This is why I tend to talk about the science of it all based on weight (mass). Ultimately it's not an easy topic to discuss on a forum and also explain the science clearly. The ambiguity is all part of the carney game of selling clubs. ?

From my standpoint I'd rather have all the shaft technical data in hand. Like bend point, weight, torque, etc. It would get rid of the ambiguity and allow better technical discussion over shafts. But alas, then it would make buying shafts too easy and then golfers wouldn't have to do their own experimenting and buying them so much. ?

TEE CB2 13* 3w, 43.5", 57g Fujikura Motore F1 X-flex
TEE CB2 15* 3w, 43" 65g Fujikura Motore F1 S-flex
Miura Black Boron 1957 Small Blades 2i-PW, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
Miura Black Wedges 53* and 60*, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
GripMaster Club Maker's Stitchback Grips
34" Piretti Bosa, GripMaster Pistol Grip

Registered Bladeocrat
Outlaw Golf Association Member #7

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LOL if you are buying clubs based on it, I highly advise that you should question the "science" of "forgiving" club manufacturers. By and large it's a complete and utter carney sham.
Also I was talking to @WishIPlayedMore about this and we agreed that it's much better to be completely ignorant of the science of golf than to have a half-a$$ed understanding of it. You either have to disregard it completely or you have to fully explore and understand it. Having only a partial understanding of it can easily lead to completely false conclusions about your club decisions and swing mechanics

TEE CB2 13* 3w, 43.5", 57g Fujikura Motore F1 X-flex
TEE CB2 15* 3w, 43" 65g Fujikura Motore F1 S-flex
Miura Black Boron 1957 Small Blades 2i-PW, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
Miura Black Wedges 53* and 60*, Nippon NS Pro 850 GH S-flex
GripMaster Club Maker's Stitchback Grips
34" Piretti Bosa, GripMaster Pistol Grip

Registered Bladeocrat
Outlaw Golf Association Member #7

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Totally agree. I've never bought anything because of science. I just know what works for me.

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Ping G430 Max 10.5

Ping G430 5&7 Wood

Ping G430 19°,22° Hybrids

Callaway 2007 X-Forged 5-PW/ PXG Gen 6 XP's 7-SW

Ping Glide 58ES Wedge

Ping PLD DS72 / Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.5+ 

Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving

 

 

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Apex MB update:

I'm still hitting these as well as I did in the honeymoon phase.

These things are a dream through the turf.

I haven't had this much confidence in my irons in years.

Heavy and super stiff irons shafts apparently work for me, who knew?

Really puzzling about a satin finish...

Playing 9 holes today and then our monthly medal comp tomorrow and really considering another 18 for Sunday, that's what these irons have done to me.

  • Like 2

Titleist 910D3 9.5°
Taylormade Rocketballz tour 18°

Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron
Callaway ApexMB '18 4 - PW
Vokey SM7 52° + 58°
Ping Scottsdale Halfpipe

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It's weird Jonesy. Since I've gotten my Wilsons I just hate putting them back in my trunk! I just want to keep on playing.

 

Ping G430 Max 10.5

Ping G430 5&7 Wood

Ping G430 19°,22° Hybrids

Callaway 2007 X-Forged 5-PW/ PXG Gen 6 XP's 7-SW

Ping Glide 58ES Wedge

Ping PLD DS72 / Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.5+ 

Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving

 

 

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Funnily enough my old MacGregor VIP Limited’s fitted with original Mac Tourney Taper Stiff shafts (read rebar) are like swinging a sledgehammer but are very consistent in line and distance...if only I was fit enough to swing them for a full round!!

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff or Mizuno MP4 4-PW
Vokey SM8 52/58; MD Golf 56
Radius Classic 8

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s-l1600.jpgJust threw away some (not many) dollar$ on this. Unused DBD 816 Alpha. Have heard good things about these, have never used Diamani shaft that it is mounted to. Intend to go flat adaptor, tinker with weights and change the shaft but we will see. Big fan of Aldila MSI 130 White but have major interest in trying a Fuji Ventus. on this. 681's still in bag, gotta say Nike VR Pro II, at the range is sultry temptress. Nice sticks.

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Dang! It's hard to get a beer out of my playing partner! That's awesome!

 

Ping G430 Max 10.5

Ping G430 5&7 Wood

Ping G430 19°,22° Hybrids

Callaway 2007 X-Forged 5-PW/ PXG Gen 6 XP's 7-SW

Ping Glide 58ES Wedge

Ping PLD DS72 / Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.5+ 

Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving

 

 

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This was my upgrade from the Optiforce I had and I have no complaints, really solid driver. sounds and feels great as well, playing it at 44" with my AD DI, added a little hotmelt and it's really become a solid bit of kit.

Titleist 910D3 9.5°
Taylormade Rocketballz tour 18°

Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron
Callaway ApexMB '18 4 - PW
Vokey SM7 52° + 58°
Ping Scottsdale Halfpipe

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Mine came with a Tensei AV blue 65s which wasn't bad, I might actually tip it an inch and give it a try. The gravity core system really works, got the weight high side up in the heel at the moment as that's where my miss has been lately and it's definitely helped.

 

Would love to try a TS4 but they are so rare this side of the world, seen one or 2 floating around on FB BST groups but they want way too much for it.

Titleist 910D3 9.5°
Taylormade Rocketballz tour 18°

Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron
Callaway ApexMB '18 4 - PW
Vokey SM7 52° + 58°
Ping Scottsdale Halfpipe

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I have the Bridgestone J15 MB 4-PW with Project X6.0 shafts as my backup set to my Callaway 2018 Apex MBs with Project X6.0 shafts. I only have 4-5 rounds with the Bridgestones plus some range sessions vs 30 plus rounds with the Callaway’s. Both are built to a swing weight of D2. Bridgestones feel like there is more weight behind the ball and slightly lower and produce a slightly higher ball flight with a little more spin. A well struck ball feels soft but meatier than the Apex MBs. Apex MBs feel softer on a pure strike almost like the ball melts and is gone. I am more accurate with the Callaway’s and find the Callaway long irons (6-4) to be more forgiving. I have had some iron shots come up much shorter than expected with the Bridgestones on small miss hits. The Callaway MBs don’t seem to lose as much distance on small mishits especially towards the toe. Both are beautiful irons and fun to play. Let me know if you have any questions.

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Looking for input on a somewhat modern (does age matter?) set that I could grab that is kind on the wallet and "forgiving" for a blade. I've been carrying in my bag a Parbilt 5 iron, its 37 inches in length, no idea what the loft on the thing is but

thumbnail-2814-29.jpg

thumbnail-2815-29.jpg

thumbnail-2816-29.jpg

thumbnail-2817-29.jpg whenever I pull it out I seem to pick the ball cleanly and get it out there around 140, its a fun club. Pictured is my beloved 5 iron, not sure who Robbie Robinson. Weight of club is 443 grams.

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