Technique Pop Quiz

[TheInfidel]

I had a lesson with my local Pro yesterday, only my third one in 15 years. Was a bit of a shock when we checked the fundamentals. I'm currently playing off 5, not that this has any bearing on how good or bad my fundamentals would be e.g. grip, stance, posture and alignment.

Which picture below is a square club face at address? e.g. which picture has the leading edge of the golf club square to the back of the ball. Nothing to do with target, start line or anthing out of shot.

[TheInfidel]

Apologies @footmashie you're right, I should have been more precise in my question. I've made a small edit.
I'd like to get views on which picture represents a square club face at address to the back of the ball. The logic being that the club face should be perpendicular to the target line, but I don't want to get bogged down in anything outside a square set up at address.

[Fuscinator]

Looking at the angles on either side of where the clubface is contacting the ball, the angles are closer to equal in picture 1.

[ryan84]

Honestly looks like the same picture to me

[TheInfidel]

 

This is what I've personally been struggling with in set up. The picture of the 8 iron on the left, or picture 2 above looks closed or toed in to me.

[scooterhd2]

Pic 1 is open. Pics 2 is square. How much that matters is highly debatable.

[TheInfidel]

Might have nailed it right there.

But for a player with a right miss setting up with an open blade for 2 decades is a rookie error on my part.

[LeoLeo99]

They look the same to me and if I really need to find a difference, Pic 1 looks every so slightly open compared to pic 2. Or pic 2 looks ever so slightly closed compared to pic 1. Don't think it's enough to make any difference.

[scooterhd2]

Everyone's swing is different, but right miss means open face. If your path is any "good" you are hitting push fades all day which sucks. Naturally, you probably correct and come over the top to give the face a change to get square. Some people play very good golf from here. Very good. It's not a deathblow, but others hit pulls, snap, slices, fades, and a straight ball with just enough frequency to make them think that the bad shots were bad swings and if they could just have more good swings they would be scratch.
Square is not square. @TheInfidel hold a club 'square' and then mimic an impact position without a ball. Some people need to take little 1/4 swings. Some people need to swing with their eyes closed and stop at impact. Others can just hold the club out in front of them and make a small backswing, lag a touch, and then forward to impact (as shown in the pic taken from a Shawn Clement video). What happens? For almost everyone with a right miss, the face is wide open. Your 'square address' is delivering an open face. You can start applying all sorts of swing fixes, but if you are already a decent golfer and have a somewhat repeatable, ingrained swing, the simple solution is to hold it more closed, so that it is square at impact. This could be at address as you are doing, where Pic 2 is clearly several degrees more "closed" than PIc 1. This could be with a stronger grip. But for these people, closed is square. And the only square that counts for anything is at impact.
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/Y6YEJX9JG8PP/image.png[/img]

[bladehunter]

2 is square. But it looks shut to me. I play with a face that looks like 1 most of the time. And shut it to square for a draw. I’m left eye dominant righty.

[mokedaddy]

I play stitched back grips and started putting my grips on a couple of degrees closed because I had the same problem.

[russc1597187869]

Cross eyed dominant golfers have an advantage . Because most golfers need to rotate their heads in order to make a full shoulder turn , cross eyed dominant players can pre- rotate their heads at setup ,ala , Jack Nicklaus and avoid that movement .

[TheInfidel]

Time will tell for me. But I'll be interested to see how a club head that is turned 5-8 degrees towards "Square" at address changes my shot pattern. It definitely encourages a bit of shaft lean for me also.
It would be naive for me to think this is a quick fix because as @scooterhd2 says there are a great many things that can happen in the delivery of the blade at 75mph to alter face angle or club path.

[Jphemming]

@TheInfidel - Did your pro provide any feedback how setting up with "square" clubface is expected to impact your swing and ball flight? I play a push draw and due to a persistent left miss I setup with an open club face. To my eye both picture 1 and 2 look closed and would likely produce draw/hook that would finish well left of my target line. But, as you note, a lot happens between address and impact.

[TheInfidel]

Hi @Jphemming - It will be different for everyone I guess, but for me when I had previoulsy set up with a slightly open clubface BUT am turning well with the lower body then I was able to return it square, my miss would be a high right one. However when I now set up with a square (looks closed to me) club face and even when the lower body gets a bit lazy in the turn, the right miss shouldnt be as bad. Minimisng some of the damage. With an effective turn through the ball (hips opening to target etc) I may even get a little draw on the mid irons.
With all the degrees of variation at impact I think the takeaway here is that a lazy swing with poor lower body action, that way always going to cause a right miss, would cause an even bigger right miss when set up with an open club face. This won't be news to anyone.
I'm going to work on it over the coming weeks and see how it progresses.