11 Year-Old Slow Swing Speed (65 MPH)

[ChappyEight]

My son has just turned 11 years old (June 3) and has played tournament golf for a couple years. However, until this summer, he was more nonchalant about playing. This year he decided he wanted to be "good", so we've spent lots of time at the chipping/putting green and had a swing coach help us out with getting him into a better swing position. His scores have dropped dramatically (he's no prodigy, but decent) to where he's consistently shooting in the mid-40's over 9 holes from the forward tees.

 

Here's my question. We were at a club open house and he jumped on the simulator with his driver and recorded a 65MPH clubhead speed. My son is very short for his age (53"), but even then, that seems woefully slow to me for his age. Typically, on the hard fairways we have around here, he'll end up between 150-170 yards off the tee. I've seen folks praise and discourage use of SuperSpeed sticks, I've seen folks say to get him on some sort of fitness plan, etc. But, honestly, my head is swimming a bit regarding how to best help him with this aside from simply waiting for puberty.

 

So, am I correct in thinking this is slow for a just-turned 11 year old and, if so, what course of action should I help him to take to build up a bit more swing speed? We're not looking to win any long-drive competitions here, but many par-4's he's having to get up and down for par even though he never leaves the fairway (driver --> 3W, chip... repeat).

 

Thanks for the advice.

[leezer99]

65 MPH is pretty slow. I'd get him swinging the club as fast as he can at the range regardless of where the ball goes. If he's athletic he'll figure out how to swing hard and keep it straight(ish). I like the speed stick although some parents on here don't.

[ChappyEight]

This was a recent swing...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtw63spmg8wvzjg/2020-07-22%2017.51.14.mov

[leezer99]

Backswing looks pretty flat but that's likely from the club being too heavy. Rest of it looks good.

[kekoa]

I don't think there is a magic sauce to increase swing speed at younger ages or we would all be drinking it. It doesn't look like your son is going after it as hard as he could . I think he has a nice swing though. If you look at some of the longer kids they are going after the ball really hard with a lot of feet movement using the ground. I've spoken to a few kids in high school who said they were short and then literally gained distance overnight. FWIW, these kids think 260-270 is short. They all say 300 is the benchmark for any top jr. golfer.

 

My son is 10 with a SS in the low to mid 70's and he is normally one of the shortest among kids he plays with.

 

What kind of driver/shaft is your son using?

[Kcct82]

I always use this chart as a reference. I tend to look at the height more than age.

I’ve tried really hard to get my 7 year old to swing faster for a year. Nothing really worked for him. We spent 2 hours a day everyday doing fitness/swing for a year (4 hours since covid). At one point spending $2000/month on lessons. His club speed went up 5mph over a year. I’m pretty sure he would have gained just as much from growing. Just keep working on the fundamentals and short game for now. A bit of fitness wouldn’t hurt, but don’t expect miracles.

[leezer99]

Somewhere in this forum is info on yards per pound. I feel like it was supposed to be around 2.0 - 2.5.

[hangontight]

Like others , I have found it to be a function of multiple things with my 9 year old son;

growth patterns. I remember on two occasions where He has LOST swing speed (seemingly overnight). I suspect a growth spurt causing a loss of efficiency.Other sports - I don’t keep detailed records or anything but his drives seem to jump up when he is in soccer (spring) and football (fall) season. Cross training effect resulting in quicker and stronger legs perhaps? Both sports include explosive athletic movements. Overspeed training - started an OS program two weeks ago based on Par4Succces research, he has gained 6 MPH in two weeks. So far Impressed (and surprised). He also is doing A handful of short workouts each week focused on explosiveness (box jumps, Med Ball slams...)I think it’s hard to attribute it to any one thing. Certainly the OS training targets the goal specifically, but I would err to making a case for being a multiple sport athlete. That wasn’t your question and I don’t intended to get off topic, but kids who learn to use their body in many sports have to have an advantage when figuring out how to use their body to swing a golf club as fast as possible.

[ChappyEight]

Funny you should mention that. This was roughly a week after visiting a swing coach for the first time ever. He used to nearly pick the club straight up, so he was over-exaggerating the "lay-off". Good catch!

You are correct. As he's been learning to correct his swing path, he's been not "gassing it". My fear is that if he really goes after it, he'll lose technique. Probably should have him try. He's currently set up with a Callaway Epic Flash head (set to 12.5°) with a 37" Flynn Golf shaft.

This is a great chart! Thanks.

Totally understand this mindset. As small as he is, basketball isn't a great option and we won't let him play football. He tried baseball for a while but wasn't feeling it. He is ate up with golf but we're going to push him to join the swim team this year as a 6th grader. We'll see how it goes.

 

Thanks so much everyone for the input. I don't want to push him too hard if it isn't necessary, but also don't want him to flounder because I didn't do something.

[NRB1917]

I'm no expert but, based on the chart, your son appears to be behind on both height and age target swing speeds. At this stage, because he's only 53in. it may be an unrealistic goal trying to go for the 11 year old target. I'd suggest trying to at least getting him halfway there so, 75mph. Try not to ever complicate this process, give him a club and ask him to just swing it over and over again, no ball, brush the ground and with one focus, to try to swing it faster. Do this everyday for even 10-15minutes, he'll definitely pick up speed.

[hangontight]

I would add to consider getting a swing speed radar. My son uses it in backyard and its been helpful to SEE what fast feels like. As we all know, what FEELS fast isnt always fast.

[ChappyEight]

Any product suggestions, @hangontight, for a radar?

[hangontight]

We got the Swing Speed Radar (red), link below. It seems to probably read a little higher compared to trackman or flightscope (so I've read), but for purpose being discussed it is perfect. https://www.amazon.com/Sports-Sensors-Swing-Speed-Radar/dp/B0013L68A6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2UX6Y9VGSX8KM&dchild=1&keywords=swing+speed+radar+with+tempo+timer&qid=1596130288&sprefix=swing+speed+ra%2Caps%2C229&sr=8-5

[heavy_hitter]

For $60.00 more you can get this. The red Swing Speed Radar, or the blue, measures the fastest point. Trackman and FlightScope are measuring the center of the head. Mevo, Swing Caddie, the one below are doing a calculation to get the center of the face speed (If I remember correctly).

https://superspeedgolf.com/products/prgr-black-pocket-launch-monitor

[Palmetto Golfer]

We have this radar as well and it works well. It does read higher than trackman/flightscope but it is still a good measuring tool.

[ChappyEight]

Does that unit, @heavy_hitter, measure speed even when not hitting a ball? I had looked into a FS Mevo a year or so ago but if I remember correctly it could not read speed without hitting a ball (e.g. not work with the SS sticks).

[heavy_hitter]

I am not sure honestly. Can probably call the company and ask.

[hangontight]

@heavy_hitter , I do wish I saw that one you sent bofore buying the red. The extra info for $50 would be pretty good. He does his before / after training measurements hitting an actual ball either into a net in the yard or at the range if we are at course that day. That being said, when he is swinging the overspeed stick he does do it next to the radar - seeing the output helps push him to swing as fast as possible. Without that visual feedback I am not sure he would be pushing it.

[hangontight]

@Palmetto Golfer , how much higher have you found the readings to be?

[ChappyEight]

I went ahead and picked up a set of the SS junior sticks and packaged them with one of the PRGR units. It should be here in a few days. At that time, I'm going to incorporate some core training, cardio, and the speed sticks into his weekly range routine.

 

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

[hangontight]

@ChappyEight , suggest you read this article. I am no expert but these guys are. This group knows their stuff when it comes to golf fitness, I think that @heavy_hitter could back me up on that as well. Interesting outcome of this article - basically their studies show use of only the medium stick (10% lighter than driver) 2 x / week is sufficient , if not more effective than every other day with all 3 sticks. Not saying this is absolutely correct but I do like the fact that it is less swings and less time. I would also say the simpler and shorter protocol is easier for a junior golfer to stick to and be patient. If you rush through it and dont rest properly between sets you are not helping matters. This is the protocol that my son has been following. As of yesterdays session ( 5 sessions over 2 weeks) he has gained 7% / 5.3 MPH over when he started. (***his record high single swing is 9 MPH/12.5 % higher than his initial session)
Also, I built him a "Medium" stick using an old shaft and a handful of fender washers from hardware store screwed on the adapter. Not including the shaft , cost of washers and screw was $5. Weighed it against his driver to get it pretty dang close to 90% weight of his driver. Something to consider. https://par4success.com/articles/are-you-using-overspeed-correctly

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

The other thing to remember as well is the Mevo and SC are lower quality radars. I think for the purpose of range time and getting a general sense. I would go with the Mevo Gen 1. Have compare it to the Foresight GC2 a few times and its pretty close.

[heavy_hitter]

In a junior golfer your kids age the most important tools in determining length off the tee is pushing exercises. It is completely chest strength along with overall weight. Cardio does little to nothing for a golfer.

[ChappyEight]

Thanks. The purpose for the cardio is simply to build respiratory endurance as he begins walking 18, not strength. Will definitely focus on "pushing" exercises.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

My counter argument about cardio would be it does little for the overall golfer in terms of swing and etc.

It would pay dividends mentally. Being a runner myself. Somedays (like in golf) you just don't have it. You have to push through and grind your way to 3,5,10 or 26.2 miles.

Its a mental skill you have to develop.

[heavy_hitter]

https://par4success.com/articles/runninginseason

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

They have valid points. I am not saying run 10 milers or halfs during golf season. I would also encourage not a lot of running during season.

Also, I've had doctors tell me that I shouldn't run. Doesn't make them right.

Even hike and put a goal time/distance in your mind. A lot all of times. You mind will make up excuses why you should quit.

Mind: "Johnny (assuming the person's name is Johnny) that's enough for today. You have went far enough. Just stop now and we can make it back before Starbucks closes.

I would encourage more from a mental standpoint. If you don't run just try a little sample and see if the mind wants you to stop.

[MB19]

I keep on telling my son that he's going to be the strongest 7 y.o. in town due to all the push-ups he does for talking back over the course of a given week. Combined with the speed sticks, he's increased his drive 25-30 yards since the start of the year.

[hangontight]

@MB19 25-30 Yards ?!?!?! That is incredible, especially for a 7 year old. How long as he been at it and did you keep track of swing speed progress?
I cannot figure out to how to upload the spreadsheet onto here, but below is his progress highlights for my 9YO Boy. Curious to see how others experience compares. The initial plan is to go for 6 weeks, see how it goes from there. Wondering when the platue will come, but so far pleased with progress. No doubt it is helping.
Started 7/15 ( 3.5 Weeks in) 2 Sessions per week, following Par4success protocol - only using Medium StickSession: Measure 3 swings with ball (net or range) before protocol, Measure 3 after - take averagesHis latest session (6th) is 7% gain over session 1, 5.3 MPHHis Single Highest Session average (which weirdly was his "before" on session 4) was 8.7% gain over session 1, 6.3 MPSingle Highest swing recorded was 8.5 MPH gain over session 1 (*not including a few higher outliers where I can tell he whipped the toe over that I didnt count)

[MB19]

It was the perfect storm, really. He had just started playing in June of last year, so it took a bit to get his swing down and repeatable. He also grew about 3" during that time, and after going through several drivers (and I should have just put him in USKG UL right from the start), I put him into a Cobra F9 SB Junior in May. His swing speed improved from sitting about 53 mph to 63 now, topping out at around 65 or so.

It is impossible to know how much of his gains can be attributed to the swing program vs getting bigger and stronger IMO. He's a 53"/66 lb 7 y.o. boy. With his USKG UL 51" driver in December he was topping out around 90. He grew 2.5", then in Feb with the UL 54" he was topping out around 110. He's grown another inch, longer driver with less loft and bigger sweet spot, now regularly hitting 120 with the odd 130 maybe once per round.

We are at the course about every other day, and we've regressed on doing the swing speed drills to about once per week (phase 2). I know we should do it 3x for max effectiveness, and maybe we will ramp it up again. We started the sticks in late January, and did them religiously through June.

My daughter is 8, 55"/82 lbs and has always swung harder/cleaner than my son. She also started playing last June, and by Dec was topping out around 110 with her Prodi G driver. It was a little too long, and she was an inch shorter and 8 lbs lighter than she is now, so I put her into the UL 54". She hit well with it, consistently hitting it 120. I got her a used F9 on a whim during a crazy sale Global Golf was having, and 120 turned into 135 with the occasional 140+ nut. Her sweeping swing (vs the digging swing of my son) allows her to swing a 40" driver. She has natural lift that allows for a 12.5* face, and the roll out helps on occasion. Her SS sits about 65 and spikes to 69 on occasion, up from sitting 62 in Feb.