SIM Drivers: Can only hit cuts and can't close the face!

[getitdaily]

So open, upright, weight back

Allows as hard a release as you want while head dynamics would help keep the face from closing but also help prevent the hard right miss...?

And, highest possible dynamic loft too?

[J13]

If a lot of the best players on the planet are setting it up this way there's a reason. I myself have seen the transformation from stock setup (terrible) to the "tour" setup and BOOM.

[getitdaily]

What difference did you see?

[Valtiel]

Very interesting. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw that the MOI numbers for the SIM were actually quite low, hence keeping an eye out for heavier aftermarket weights. My M1 430 actually has a 12g metal M1 fairway weight stacked on top of a 15g SLDR weight that I ground down to fit in the M1 rear track all the way back, plus I dropped the front weight from 12g to 5g.

What about the stock setup was terrible for you? I'd imagine that the low CG and fairly low MOI would just have stability issues due to spin getting too low and gear effects being a bit pronounced.

[Valtiel]

Basically, yeah. The idea would be to add stability and tighten the spin window of the head. The SIM can be massively low spin and the last thing I want is the high toe knuckle ball.

[getitdaily]

I didn't need to see these posts...the tinkerer in me likely won't be able to resist...lol

Off to Google heavier back weights now.

[woods991]

I am playing a true tour issue Sim Max head and had a retail version before and night and day, both at 10.5 degree. I lofted up the retail head and delofted one notch the tour issue head. Both have a cut to them, both long, just one is longer haha. I tried every setting and cant get the cut out but I learned how to play it and love it. Probably the best head to date, which I know is the most over stated comment on wrx lol, but TM did a great job with this SIM line.

Added: For the record I am not a TM Fan boy.

45 inches long

UST LINQ 65f untipped

[getitdaily]

Billy Bob's has 19g and 21g back weights and 4g and 6g front weights (they have more than that, but unimportant for this post).

Sim back weight is 12g. I have a 4g and 10g front weight now.

If I toyed around, will there really be much difference in 2g in the back? I like the thought of split weights in the front (where I think sim gen2 goes...) so 19g would allow two 4g in the front where I can split them. 21g would mean a single 6g weight in the front...not dishing $25 per weight for 3g weights through TM.

[J13]

The stock off the rack setup (neutral adapter setting) was all over the place and kept going right. That was my first impression of the driver. Fast forward 3 months later I learned quite a bit on the characteristics of the head and how it's being setup for better players and realized the stock setup was lower MOI and more fade bias.

 

The head i've been testing now is

Loft 9* with adapter set to 3* open, -1.5* loft, 58.75* lie angle.

Front weight: 9g

Back weight: 15g

Tensei Pro Orange 70TX

45" length

No hotmelt as of yet but most likely will drop the front weight to 4g and add the missing 5g to the heel and push the 4g weight to the toe. I've built a few SIM's lately for people in the shop like this and they are LOVING it. Night and day.

 

[Valtiel]

 

There are actually back weights all the way up to 28g available on eBay. That makes sense, although I would likely end up going even more extreme than that to start with. I'd probably start with dropping the front weight to 3g and putting something like the aforementioned 28g weight in the back, which is only a net addition of around 12g, which is often what I end up adding to most driver heads anyway. I'd have to test between opening up a 10.5* head all the way or maybe only slightly opening a 9* head. we'll see!

[getitdaily]

Just ordered a 21g back weight. I have two 4g weights already (1 spare). 4gx2 +21g will weight the driver 1 sw point heavier but I bet that heavy back weight will make it unnoticeable.

I'll update this thread when the 21g comes in and I can test it. $25 tinker...I'll take it if it improves on an already fantastic driver.

[J13]

What swing weight do you play in driver? That’s a lot of weight unless you play shorter setups

[b2bbirdies]

Which guys are using the 8 degree head right now?

[b2bbirdies]

How does that the Sim Max head look to you one click low?

[Valtiel]

I normally play D6+ at around 44.5"-ish, hence the additional weight.

[Tree Levino]

Rory and Morikawa both come to mind. 8* turned up to 8.75.

[OspreyCI]

What affects does going from a stock back weight all the way up to a 21 or even 28 gram weight? Spin/launch?

I play my drivers at 44.5”.

[getitdaily]

By the book, heavier back weight should increase launch and spin. It should also induce a faster face closure rate.

[b2bbirdies]

Interesting. Rory had the 10.5 turned down at the start of the season. Maybe he'll go up in loft and turn down. He was driving it better earlier I thought

[OspreyCI]

Roger that. Thanks.

[ignitewvu]

To my eye it looks 1-1.5 degree open. Set to Neutral is looked closed to me and I simply can’t hit a closed looking driver.

[jjmurry]

I actually tried this today - changed the adapter to 3* open, -1.5* loft, 58.75* lie angle. I didn't have any extra weights for the clubhead or anything like that, but this adapter set up completely eliminated my "big right miss". I'm a handle dragger that hits these annoying push shots that end up flying off the map should I miss slightly heel side (which is my common miss). With the upright angle but lower loft I could release as hard as I wanted with very little fear of the big right miss. This was a game changing piece of advice, thanks.

[ignitewvu]

Changing the heads to Upright is a game changer.

 

I was ready to sell the club until I did that & everything changed.

[jjmurry]

Very much agreed, I'm spinning it a bit more than the standard setting with the upright setting but I feel safer swinging driver. Something that's been a long time coming :)

[getitdaily]

Got some launch monitor time (gcquad) today and tested the heavier weight back. Interesting results.

My setup is std back weight, 10g weight in heel, 4g added weight in center - we'll call this "std" setup. D2 sw

The setup I tested today is 21g back weight, 4g heel, 4g center - we'll call this "custom" setup. D3.5 sw

Std setup launched higher by 1 degree. Spun higher by about 250rpm. Ballspeeds were nearly identical. Carry distances were within 3 yards.

The custom setup definitely had less sidespin.

I'll test on the range Saturday to get more comparison. I don't struggle with the driver. The std setup is a guaranteed fade. Only trouble I get into is into a l-r wind. I didn't see anything that blew me away. I did feel.i could go after it harder with the custom setup and not worry about losing it right. But going after it for me doesnt really result in much of an increase in ballspeed.

[Valtiel]

Less sidespin could definitely be attributed to higher MOI, or possibly a fraction less face closure due to a slightly higher swingweight, or maybe both. Either way, if it were me I would just moving weight back until something starts to suffer, because it is only going to help you on mishits and tighten your spin window overall. After I sell a bunch of stuff off I am planning to try a SIM with at least 25g back.

[getitdaily]

I'll definitely do some thorough on course testing in about 6 weeks with the weight back setup. I have 3 more tournaments and don't plan to toy until after then. I know exactly where my current setup is going. Not messing with that just yet.

[Kale_m]

So a ball can have side spin and back spin T the same time? Weird

[Valtiel]

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but we call it "sidespin" because it is easier than referring to it as "how many degrees of axis tilt in proportion to the total spin rate", which is something that MOI and its relation to horizontal gearing have a direct impact on.

[getitdaily]

Did a good bit of testing the heavier back weight setup this morning. What I saw on the launch monitor was pretty much confirmed. The flight is definitely straighter. Never lost a drive left. However, there wasn't much difference compared to my normal setup. I don't mind the small tailing fade my normal setup gives me.

What was not eliminated was the hard right miss, at least for how I had the driver setup. I tried to go after a few and at d3.5 my transition got a little more OTT than usual, left the face open...right going right. I think getting back to d2 would help and I tried a single 4g weight in the front (d1.5) but that setup had the same basic tailing right flight as my normal setup. I think the 21g back weight makes the club even more fade biased.

So, the experiment is over. I'll stick with my normal setup. Again, I don't struggle with the driver. I think I could go 19g in the back and two 4g in the front and maybe have something really solid. But I managed to strip one of my 4g weights so I'd have to buy another one of them along with the 19g weight. Just not worth it. There is definitely merit to the setup tho. Definitely more forgiving.

Another thing I confirmed is that the heavier back weight setup is lower spin...for me. Had just a few shots that had that fall out knuckle flight. My normal setup is constantly in the 2100-2400 spin window. The heavier back weight setup was about 200rpm lower on avg. Don't want to get lower than 2100...