TP Red vs TP Black (LDP)

[Pepperturbo]

I've seen a lot of conflicting information from various places, and the confusion was made only worse by the fact that when Taylormade first started making balls again, the black was the harder of the two. My question is this - strictly in terms of greenside performance, which ball spins more? I don't care about ball flight or driver spin or anything like that, I just want to know which ball checks up more quickly around the greens on pitches, bunker shots etc.

 

Thanks

 

Around the greens Red and Black are very similar. Where they vary is which spins more off irons and woods. Although, I regularly play Callaway's i(z), "TMTP Red" is by backup ball; partly because I still have a few dozen left from when it was my main choice. It's a great ball.

 

 

When does one use one's "backup balls" ???

 

Good question... :lol: When one runs out of Callaway i(z), which was the case yesterday. I still have have 3 dozen TMTP LDP Tournament Red's. One things for sure, even though TMTP Red is a fine ball, it's not as long off driver or irons as the i(z).

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Cornbread' date='19 June 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1276956973' post='2519301']
Pro V = TP RED
Pro Vx = TP BLACK

The TP Red is a little softer and offers more spin in the shorter irons while the TP Black is designed to be longer.
[/quote]

It's written on TM's site ... you got it backwards. TMTP Red is the harder low spin ball (=ProV1X) for high spin golfers like myself, while TMTP Black is the high spin ball (=ProV) - for low spin golfers.

[Ball88]

Sorry guys, I am still confused. How do you know if you are a high spin or low spin player? My swing speed with a driver is 90mph, my LGS has both the red and black on sale, which do I buy?

[Pepperturbo]

Answer = how much spin you naturally put on the ball with driver and irons. Spin isn't so much about SS as it is about swing plane and the face angle when the club head impacts the ball.

My swing plane with driver is more upright then ideal; reason I play 909D3 and Callaway i(z). It's challenging for me to bring my driver swing plane down to properly sweep upward on the ball. However with with irons its easy to bring my swing plane down when desired, and still hit the ball hard enough to cause lots of spin.

High spin comes into the ball with a steeper angle creating more spin.
Low spin comes in with a flatter angle, almost upward minimizing spin.

IMO there are two optimal swings = iron swing (high spin) and driver swing (low spin); they contradict each other. I have the iron swing down pat.. still trying to get my driver swing to match up; doubt that will happen before I am looking up from down under.

[storm319]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='20 June 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1277050653' post='2521281']
[quote name='Cornbread' date='19 June 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1276956973' post='2519301']
Pro V = TP RED
Pro Vx = TP BLACK

The TP Red is a little softer and offers more spin in the shorter irons while the TP Black is designed to be longer.
[/quote]

It's written on TM's site ... you got it backwards. TMTP Red is the harder low spin ball (=ProV1X) for high spin golfers like myself, while TMTP Black is the high spin ball (=ProV) - for low spin golfers.
[/quote]

There is no direct comparison to the ProV1 line with these balls.

*TP Black LDP - 3-piece, higher overall compression (about 115), higher spin off irons, lower spin off driver, higher trajectory

*TP Red LDP - 4-piece, lower overall compression (around 95), lower spin of irons, higher spin off driver (marginal), lower trajectory

I would say that there is only a marginal difference between the two in terms of spin (both spin noticably less than the ProV1). Trajectory & feel are where they differ the most. The cover hardness is the same on both.

[storm319]

IMO there are two optimal swings = iron swing (high spin) and driver swing (low spin); they contradict each other. I have the iron swing down pat.. still trying to get my driver swing to match up; doubt that will happen before I am looking up from down under.

 

I agree. It is difficult to defy physics, but ball designers seem to keep inching along year in and year out.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='storm319' date='21 June 2010 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1277141119' post='2523692']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='20 June 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1277050653' post='2521281']
[quote name='Cornbread' date='19 June 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1276956973' post='2519301']
Pro V = TP RED
Pro Vx = TP BLACK

The TP Red is a little softer and offers more spin in the shorter irons while the TP Black is designed to be longer.
[/quote]

It's written on TM's site ... you got it backwards. TMTP Red is the harder low spin ball (=ProV1X) for high spin golfers like myself, while TMTP Black is the high spin ball (=ProV) - for low spin golfers.
[/quote]

There is no direct comparison to the ProV1 line with these balls.

*TP Black LDP - 3-piece, higher overall compression (about 115), higher spin off irons, lower spin off driver, higher trajectory

*TP Red LDP - 4-piece, lower overall compression (around 95), lower spin of irons, higher spin off driver (marginal), lower trajectory

I would say that there is only a marginal difference between the two in terms of spin (both spin noticably less than the ProV1). Trajectory & feel are where they differ the most. The cover hardness is the same on both.
[/quote]

Fine - I believe otherwise...we can disagree. I wasn't measuring static compression nor have I ever looked for imperial research off a robot to prove my view. I am well aware of 3 vs. 4 piece, their purposes, construction and over an extended period watched good golfers hit each, among others, including myself.

People with flatter swings benefit from TMTP Black, and ProV; with more upright swings TMTP Red & ProV1x... It's about spin and trajectory expectations. That said, I know a 70+ year old that happily plays TP Black and my FIL loves ProV. Further reason why compression rate hasn't been advertised in years, and compressing the ball or # of layers has little to do with why someone chooses a ball.

[bryanr]

[quote name='storm319' date='21 June 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1277141119' post='2523692']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='20 June 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1277050653' post='2521281']
[quote name='Cornbread' date='19 June 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1276956973' post='2519301']
Pro V = TP RED
Pro Vx = TP BLACK

The TP Red is a little softer and offers more spin in the shorter irons while the TP Black is designed to be longer.
[/quote]

It's written on TM's site ... you got it backwards. TMTP Red is the harder low spin ball (=ProV1X) for high spin golfers like myself, while TMTP Black is the high spin ball (=ProV) - for low spin golfers.
[/quote]

There is no direct comparison to the ProV1 line with these balls.

*TP Black LDP - 3-piece, higher overall compression (about 115), higher spin off irons, lower spin off driver, higher trajectory

*TP Red LDP - 4-piece, lower overall compression (around 95), lower spin of irons, higher spin off driver (marginal), lower trajectory

I would say that there is only a marginal difference between the two in terms of spin (both spin noticably less than the ProV1). Trajectory & feel are where they differ the most. The cover hardness is the same on both.
[/quote]

Just to be clear - those compression numbers refer to the force required to compress the ball a certain amount. The Red compresses more off the driver face = less spin (the ball splats and rebounds more instead of spinning up the club face like a harder ball). As the club loft goes down, compression is less of a factor.

[storm319]

[quote name='bryanr' date='21 June 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1277149992' post='2524052']
[quote name='storm319' date='21 June 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1277141119' post='2523692']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='20 June 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1277050653' post='2521281']
[quote name='Cornbread' date='19 June 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1276956973' post='2519301']
Pro V = TP RED
Pro Vx = TP BLACK

The TP Red is a little softer and offers more spin in the shorter irons while the TP Black is designed to be longer.
[/quote]

It's written on TM's site ... you got it backwards. TMTP Red is the harder low spin ball (=ProV1X) for high spin golfers like myself, while TMTP Black is the high spin ball (=ProV) - for low spin golfers.
[/quote]

There is no direct comparison to the ProV1 line with these balls.

*TP Black LDP - 3-piece, higher overall compression (about 115), higher spin off irons, lower spin off driver, higher trajectory

*TP Red LDP - 4-piece, lower overall compression (around 95), lower spin of irons, higher spin off driver (marginal), lower trajectory

I would say that there is only a marginal difference between the two in terms of spin (both spin noticably less than the ProV1). Trajectory & feel are where they differ the most. The cover hardness is the same on both.
[/quote]

Just to be clear - those compression numbers refer to the force required to compress the ball a certain amount. The Red compresses more off the driver face = less spin (the ball splats and rebounds more instead of spinning up the club face like a harder ball). As the club loft goes down, compression is less of a factor.
[/quote]

Compression rating is actually the resistance force that a ball exerts back when being compressed. The higher the compression rating the more a ball will resist being compressed. I believe the amount of weight that is applied in standard testing is 200 lbs.

[bryanr]

[quote name='storm319' date='21 June 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1277155518' post='2524328']
Compression rating is actually the resistance force that a ball exerts back when being compressed. The higher the compression rating the more a ball will resist being compressed. I believe the amount of weight that is applied in standard testing is 200 lbs.
[/quote]

You mentioned this in a previous thread and I should have quoted you as well here for added reference.

I did look into it and at least the Majestix and Atti measurements, which are used for the MPI™ Golf Ball List, are based on a measurement of deflection, not resistance force. Reference: [url="http://www.golfballselector.com/golf/generic%21viewHowMethods.action"]http://www.golfballselector.com/golf/generic!viewHowMethods.action[/url]

Certainly, though, the metrics are analogous for the discussion of the ball's behavior during impact.

[storm319]

[quote name='bryanr' date='13 July 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1279044738' post='2573295']
[quote name='storm319' date='21 June 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1277155518' post='2524328']
Compression rating is actually the resistance force that a ball exerts back when being compressed. The higher the compression rating the more a ball will resist being compressed. I believe the amount of weight that is applied in standard testing is 200 lbs.
[/quote]

You mentioned this in a previous thread and I should have quoted you as well here for added reference.

I did look into it and at least the Majestix and Atti measurements, which are used for the MPI™ Golf Ball List, are based on a measurement of deflection, not resistance force. Reference: [url="http://www.golfballselector.com/golf/generic%21viewHowMethods.action"]http://www.golfballselector.com/golf/generic!viewHowMethods.action[/url]

Certainly, though, the metrics are analogous for the discussion of the ball's behavior during impact.
[/quote]

You are right. I have read other explainations where they mention resisting compression but ultimately it tells us the same thing.

[Egan101]

The TP Red proved better for me. The TP Black is still a good ball, specially with its price today.