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Seemore Putters


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[quote name='volrus' date='16 June 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1276740554' post='2514403']
[quote name='chamgel2' date='16 June 2010 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1276735437' post='2514244']
[quote name='Eagle006' date='16 June 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1276722016' post='2513790']
I am currently considering a Seemore. I tried the original FGP and liked it, but never stuck with it even though I am a BIG fan of Pat O'Brien's putting and teaching methods.

I'm contemplating a MFGP2 or an SB-1. Does anyone have any experience with either putter? The only thing I'm not sure about is the weight. 330g for the MFGP2 is a little light for my preference. Is there anything that can be done to increase the headweight?
[/quote]

I have one of their new MFGP2 Carbon Steel putters and LOVE it. They are not on the website yet but are $295 retail with a 335 gram head. I switched from the FGP to it, both were custom ordered direct from Seemore with 340 gram headweight. There is no upcharge for the headweight change. Give Ted a call at Seemore, great to work with.

[attachment=611465:DSCN3540.JPG]

[attachment=611466:DSCN3542.JPG]

[/quote]

Ted is who I usually work with as well. He is a PGA Professional and knows what he's talking about. Very responsive and very helpful. If you can, go see them in Franklin you'll be impressed by their staff and their willingness to help out. I took a putting lesson from Ted and it has been very helpful. He of couse teaches Pat O'Brien's method.
[/quote]

+1, I was visiting a buddy at Vanderbilt and took the trip down, Ted couldn't have been nicer and it was fantastic.

I was gonna ask about these carbon steel putters, when are they going to come out? Also, I'm somewhat interested in the throwback m6 putter, has anybody used that?

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The Carbon Steel putters are available now, they are just not on the website yet.

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I immediately disregard ANY poster who dismisses a club or manufacturer out of hand. First, it shows they are not really a sophisticated golfer. I know of no exceptional golfer who lacks curiosity about all aspects of the game, to include equipment. Moreover, a good golfer can play anything. They may not like it, but they can play anything. So when I read a poster say something doesn't work or sucks, I just know they are not a very good golfer. The notion that a good golfer can only hit certain equipment or [i]should[/i] only use certain equipment is ludicrous. Snobbery is a dead give away of low self esteem.

My buddy is scratch and he visited me without his clubs once and we went to this great course and he had to rent clubs at the course. They usually have beautiful rental options but all the mens clubs were on the course, so he said "how about ladies clubs?" and played with pink golf clubs and shot a -1 on a Top 25 course in CA. He lamented the shortness, the whippy shafts, the ugly pink, you name it. But after 10 minutes on the range warming up he made his adjustments and played. Later on, he added a ladies 5-wood he found somewhere to his bag which he uses as a hybrid of sorts. That golf experience with me turned him on the value of shorts metal woods with high flex shafts. He can do things with that club most guys could only dream of...and I read Fred Couples did something like this in the late 1980s (gamed a ladies 3 wood or something along those lines). So just ignore these tight asses who blast clubs for no good reason.

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is it hard to keep the shaft on the red dot when you take the backswing and the followthru? it seems like it would be difficult

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[quote name='Mizunolover97' date='23 June 2010 - 12:47 AM' timestamp='1277268474' post='2527458']
I dont think this putter would work well with a forward press.
[/quote]

I went down to the facility to get a lesson/fitting, they consider a forward press a 'swing flaw' in your putting stroke, too much manipulation of the face angle and loft. It was so weird at first to not do a forward press but I immediately noticed a difference on how well my ball would stay on line in putts with some big swings in them.

The whistle shaft will move your hands more ahead of the ball but you still can't have a major press going on.

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I need my irons to sell so I can get one of the carbon FGP's. So freaking cool looking!

And yes, in the Pat O'Brien method, forward press is a swing flaw. The POB and SeeMore way is to center everything. It works! Cover that dot through the entire stroke and you're releasing the head perfectly on line.

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I recently bought a new Black Label Private Reserve mFGP ($350) and must say I am very impressed. I did not buy the putter for the alignment aid, but for the toe hang and reviews I read regarding the feel, balance and the twirl effect as advertised for this putter. I do not concentrate on the red dot that much because I think my setup is generally pretty good, but I do use it. I have a Cameron, TP Mills, Ping and this Seemore rolls as good as them in my opinion. I may add a little weight to it in the future, but hard to argue with the results of this stick. You can see some of the dot if you use a forward press with this straight shaft model, but that does not effect me. I have the video and plan to watch it tonight. Good luck!

[i][b]In the Bag:[/b][/i]
Driver - Ping 430 Max 10.5 Degree - Tensei 1K 70g  45"

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Hybrids: Ping G425 26 degree Titleist TSi2 17 and 23 degree…..Shaft Project X 90 Hyb +1"
PW: Wilson Staff Custom 52 SW: Cleveland CBX Full Face 56 10 bounce
Putter: Jon Rham Limited Naked Rossie 
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  • 2 weeks later...

ently bought a SeeMore mFGP Platinum finish. It is a milled stainless steel putter with sensational feel. But I don't think people realize just how progressive this putter--and this model in particular--is and how much of an advantage it provides on the greens.

 

First off, any solid putting stroke requires a certain amount of practice and committment to technique. Otherwise, the player is really just accepting mediocre results and more than likely inconsistent results. I think most golfers are just happy to be playing and are not overly serious about improving their game through a study of the game. I understand that and those players will not be particularly impressed by this putter. But those who really are serious about finding the lowest scoring point of their game you have to look long and hard at a SeeMore mFGP putter.

 

Why?

 

First, the alignment aid is second to none. I had an 11 handicap buddy, who hates to ever try anything new, use this putter. I picked three putts of 10 feet. One with 6" left to right break, one with 6" right to left break and one straight putt. He used his own putter and tried three from each spot. He made half of them. Then we practiced with the SeeMore and I showed him exactly how to use the putter and he just putted around for a few minutes. Then we returned to the spot of the three putts. He made 9 of 12. Then I gave him back his putter and he made 7 of 12. I used my flip camera to record each stroke from ground level and then we looked at that video on a large flat screen TV. The first thing that pops off the screen is how much better the stroke is with the SeeMore. it is more consistent, fluid, and just more solid. With his own putter it is clear he uses his hands to manipulate the putter...which is exactly what most golfers do. It is the subconscious mind making midstroke corrections for poor initial alignment.

 

How does it work?

 

First, draw a line on your ball of at least 3/4" - 1" long. Many golfers already do this, although I am amazed at how many do not. Stand behind the putt and read it (correctly hopefully) and use the line on the ball to correspond with the line for the putt. Then use the SeeMore top line to extend the line on the ball. YOU ARE NOW PROPERLY ALIGNED...so only think about speed of putt now. Stare at hole for at least three seconds to allow your brain to calculate the distance and speed, look back at alignment aid on the SeeMore and watch it through your ENTIRE STROKE. This will take no more than 20 minutes some afternoon on a putting green to get used to. Yes, the overwhelming majority of players watch the ball during the takeaway and the spot where the ball was after impact, but with this putter you watch the alignment aid on the putter through the entire stroke to ensure you are not manipulating the putter face with your hands. You do not need to move your head to watch the alignment aid, only your eyes. In fact, you should NOT move your head, ever when putting and that is the primary purpose of watching your ball on the take away. But with very little practice you will realize you can move your eyes without moving your head and strike the ball on the sweet spot effortlessly. Besides, the reason most players miss the sweet spot on a putter even when their head is perfectly still, is that the putter was manipulated during the stroke. By watching the alignment aid (the SeeMore people call it Rifle Scope Technology) you ensure the putter head is moving properly for the ENTIRE STROKE. The chances of you putting a poor stroke on the ball disappear, entirely!, with this technology.

 

Why choose the mFGP putter--even though SeeMore makes many different putter styles?

 

The design of the mFGP putter is the best possible compliment to the stroke that the alignment aid of the Rifle Scope Technology encourages through that famous red dot. The stroke of a SeeeMore putter when using the alignment aid for the entire stroke is slightly opened to slightly closed. It is not straight back and straight through. If you use that stroke then you will notice that the alignment aid reveals the red dot at a certain point in the stroke. So you are only using half of the benefits of this technology...you are lining up properly but your stroke becomes a manipulation. The toe hang of the mFGP putter is such that during the stroke it "snaps" back to square at impact. They call it the "twirl effect" that moves the putter effortlessly from open to closed. Your hands feel zero resistance--whereas with a straight back and through stroke, even with a face balanced putter, there is resistance since that is technically an unnautral move of the putter....that is a stroke that requires hand manipulation. The SeeMore stroke encouraged through the Rifle Scope Technology combined wih the mFGP putter requires the least hand manipulation of a putting stroke.

 

Your eyes lie....so to speak.

 

Most putts are missed due to bad initial alignment, and that bad alignment is cause by standing perpendicular to the line. In other words, "seeing" the putt from your putting stance is unnatural for your eyes as one is closer to the hole than the other in that position. Whether your are right eye or left eye dominant is irrelevant (some on this sight have suggested otherwise and it is not remotely accurate). Baseball players turn their heads so that BOTH eyes face the pitcher, even though their bodies are perpendicular. They do this to see the ball CLEARLY. The only way to clearly see a line of a putt is to face it squarely. Once you turn sideways to assume your putting stance the chance of you "losing" the line are incredibly high. Even if you already use a line on your ball the next problem is maintaining a stroke that is free of confusion about alignment. Consider that your brain has just had two conflicting inputs (face-on versus a sideways view) about the line. The SeeMore is a technology that eliminates most, if not all, of those conflicts which inevitably lead to useless hand manipulations that are an outgrowth of the visual confusion of first looking at your putt face foward and then looking at your putting line in a perpendicular stance. In other words, when standing behind the ball you had the line but when you moved to your putter stance you confused your brain...without a unbiased alignment aid of the SeeMore putter or something similar you either need tremendous discipline or lots and lots of practice.

 

SeeMore is a tiny company and that this putter has not gone mainstream does not surprise me. Most golfers only want to play based on feel--even if that feel is wrong. This putter asks you to be more cognitive, more technique oriented in terms of your stroke...although your distance will still be a function of "feel".

 

One last note about me...I consider putting one of the stronger aspects of my game but I am always looking for a way to take one less putt per round. I have used (over my 30+ years playing golf) the bullseye putter, the Ping Answer, Cameron Newport, Odyssey Two Ball, and for about five years a belly putter (the Monza, Monza Spider and Two Ball). I have had sensational and horrible putting rounds with them all. The SeeMore is the first (and only really) that has given me the kind of consistent stroke that I always felt I deserved to have given my commitment to the game and time invested. I believe the putter is the most important club in your bag...and given the number of swings you will take with that one club, it IS statistically the most relevant club in your bag.

 

Now when I miss a putt, it is because I either misread it, got a bad roll due to the inconsistency of the green, or my speed was off. On putts that are straight or on short putts, I am a MUCH more consistent putter. I strongly suggest you buy this putter and, at worst, it will be a great training aid for you with your other putter. But if you watch the Pat O'Brien video and use it seriously for a month you will see dramatic improvement with your putting and stick with it as I have. I understand this sort of approach to putting is not for everyone, but I thought a lot of posters on this site could use a first hand testimony of the putter.

 

Sorry for the long post...

mfgp.jpg

3836953835_190df91715.jpg

 

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[quote name='Mizunolover97' date='04 July 2010 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1278259836' post='2554199']
I use a fairly straight back and straight through stroke and dont have a problem with hiding the red dot.



[/quote]

If you are blocking the red dot you are not taking it straight back. Moreover, the beauty of the RST is that it is a subtle open to close swing that it promotes. Loren Roberts is too radically open to close while JB Holmes is too square to square IMO. The perfect amount is Tiger, Brian Gay, Matt Kuchar or Retief.

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[quote name='Will Par' date='15 June 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1276639550' post='2511601']
Zach Johnson PGA Tour 2010 putting statistics:

Inside 5 feet - rank 128th
5 to 10 feet - rank 24th
10 to 15 feet - rank 73rd
15 to 20 feet - rank 119th.

It's interesting how perception sometimes varies from reality.
[/quote]


How many putts has he had inside these distances? Where were the tournaments played at? What was the field for that week? Who is ahead of him in these stats and which tournaments where their numbers based off of?

Yeah, stats can lie just like anything else.

Zach is a great putter, it isn't even debatable.

I am a better putter with my Seemore, so whether or not you are willing to try a Seemore is simply up to you.

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Those were the official PGA statistics from the PGATOUR.com website as of June 15th. Compiled from the PGA tour events that Zach played in against the PGA field for each event. Those ahead of him are other PGA tour members and their stats are based on the events in which they played. Zach is a good putter, but he is not in the top 20 on tour from any distance. From inside 5 feet there are 124 players on tour who putt better. Here's the link for the stats for those that want to see them. [url="http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/02/40/24/stats"]http://www.pgatour.c.../02/40/24/stats[/url]

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[i]Everything is dust in the wind. -Kansas[/i]

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[quote name='Will Par' date='06 July 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1278454714' post='2558256']
Those were the official PGA statistics from the PGATOUR.com website as of June 15th. Compiled from the PGA tour events that Zach played in against the PGA field for each event. Those ahead of him are other PGA tour members and their stats are based on the events in which they played. Zach is a good putter, but he is not in the top 20 on tour from any distance. From inside 5 feet there are 124 players on tour who putt better. Here's the link for the stats for those that want to see them. [url="http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/02/40/24/stats"]http://www.pgatour.c.../02/40/24/stats[/url]
[/quote]

Unfortunately, your reading of the stats is wrong.

[url="http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?420"]http://www.pgatour.c...stats/info/?420[/url]

Johnson is T50 on one putts inside of 5 feet. But more importantly, of the 49 guys ahead of him only two (2) guys have won a tournament this year. 45 of those guys have not won in the last two years. None of those guys have won a Masters and only one has won any major for that matter, and all but one of those guys have fewer career tournament wins than does Johnson--who has 7 wins and one major (a career that right now can be argued is only bettered by 13 active players)

I think 99% of the members of this site would tell you that Zach Johnson is not the 19th best player in the world because of his driver my friend. Try using the eye test every once in a while. Even my wife can recognize that Johnson is one of the 5 best putters in the world.

Oh, and I guess if stats don't lie then Tiger is no better than Steve Elkington (who leads Woods in scoring average)?

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  • 3 weeks later...

[quote name='volrus' timestamp='1276714040' post='2513510']
[quote name='502 to Right' date='15 June 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1276654540' post='2512130']
RST assures that you start from same putting position every time. That's it. It does not help during the stroke.

Also, the designs are terrible. The feel is terrible.

The FGP has to be one of the worst feeling putters I've ever used. Terrible MOI too.
[/quote]


I must say that I think you may be the first person I've ever heard say the feel is "terrible". If you have only tried the standard brass FGP I'm not sure you're giving it much of a chance. Not sure how you can say that about an entire line of putters when you're basing it on your experience with the basic model of their putters. I don't know of anyone who has ever tried their milled putters that said it felt "terrible."
[/quote]

I agree. I went through Golfsmith and hit several puts with the top brands. I thought the standard brass model felt better than the Scotty's, White Ice, Never Compromise xray, Bettinardi carbon and Ping nickle insert. I will be ordering the carbon model since it is even softer feeling.

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