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Could Ben Hogan Use a 1-iron?


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Two Stroke...hostility and jealousy are stepbrothers. There has been a long fought war between two camps. The long dominated PGA party liners that insist hitting down to make the ball go up....and all the others. Guys like Martinez and Squish are obvious rebels, but they're right. I'd never heard of either one until just recently, but they both stuck out as searchers and willing teachers. Both have helped many, myself especially.

Five lessons, on the other hand, not so much. In spite of all the beautiful drawings that graphically show what Hogan is saying, none of the drawings show the moment of impact. Lots and lots of the set up and followthrough illustrations, but none of impact...and shortly thereafter. Why?

I think Hogan wanted all the imitators to take those meatloaf sized divots one takes when you hit hard down. There's enough video of Hogan taking no divot or just a small quarter size chunk just under where the ball sat....not forward of where the ball was. His low spiral attack was the sweeping of the club with contact coming just at the lowest part of the arc just as the club was rising.

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Five Lessons is the top selling golf instruction book of all time. That a couple of wankers on a message board are crying "woe is me" hardly qualifies it as a flop. The miniscule fraction of dissatisfied buyers further points to its phenomenonal success.

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[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1312155723' post='3439695']
Five Lessons is the top selling golf instruction book of all time. That a couple of wankers on a message board are crying "woe is me" hardly qualifies it as a flop. The miniscule fraction of dissatisfied buyers further points to its phenomenonal success.
[/quote]

Where do you get I'm woeing? Simple fact...Hogan didn't want any illustrations showing the clubface at impact. Popularity is important if you're Lady Gaga or Michael Jackson. I'll take Austin and Yogi.

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[quote name='Not Yogi' timestamp='1312138035' post='3439067']
Two Stroke...hostility and jealousy are stepbrothers. There has been a long fought war between two camps. [b]The long dominated PGA party liners that insist hitting down to make the ball go up....and all the others. [/b] Guys like Martinez and Squish are obvious rebels, but they're right. I'd never heard of either one until just recently, but they both stuck out as searchers and willing teachers. Both have helped many, myself especially.

Five lessons, on the other hand, not so much. In spite of all the beautiful drawings that graphically show what Hogan is saying, none of the drawings show the moment of impact. Lots and lots of the set up and followthrough illustrations, but none of impact...and shortly thereafter. Why?

I think Hogan wanted all the imitators to take those meatloaf sized divots one takes when you hit hard down. There's enough video of Hogan taking no divot or just a small quarter size chunk just under where the ball sat....not forward of where the ball was. His low spiral attack was the sweeping of the club with contact coming just at the lowest part of the arc just as the club was rising.
[/quote]

Virtually every bit of Trackman data taken from good players shows a decending clubhead through impact with everything but a driver (and perhaps teed up fairway woods). Now if you want to say that the hands and/or left shoulder are leveling out and/or rising just before impact, that's another matter entirely. "Hitting up" on a ball sitting on the ground is nonsense and is the disease of most chops.

And just how would a hand sketched illustration of Hogan 2" after the cover illustration tell us anything that the cover illustration doesn't? Hogan certainly took divots, yes shallow ones due to his low swing but divots nonetheless, Plenty of film and photographic evidence of that. I think you're just trying to see something that isn't there.

Here's just one example of many that are easily found. I'm sure we could agree that if one were to just scrape the ground and not take a divot, a 4 iron would be a prime candidate for that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLSTtlLw4dU&feature=related

Here's a 6 iron. Look at the size of that beaver pelt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxjM9zs8A00&feature=related

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@ Not Yogi, the kind of nonsensical reply Id expect from someone comparing Hogan to Lady Gaga, preferring these 2 clowns instead:

 

ma-skeleton.jpg

post-49932-1255537392-1.jpg

 

Back to a credible source, what would change in the 10th of a second (literally the blink of an eye) it takes Hogan's clubhead travelling 90+ mph to go 2 inches?

 

How do you hit "up" on an object on the ground?

 

How would that not require being underneath the ground behind it, which in a golf lingo is hitting it fat.

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Or this montage, where 1:19 in, he even takes a divot with his 4 wood! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSAAvhukTiE&feature=related

Here's another nice compilation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU&feature=related

Why would we need hand sketched illustrations of impact when we can watch film? lol

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@ Not Yogi, the kind of nonsensical reply Id expect from someone comparing Hogan to Lady Gaga, preferring these 2 clowns instead:

 

ma-skeleton.jpg

post-49932-1255537392-1.jpg

 

Back to a credible source, what would change in the 10th of a second (literally the blink of an eye) it takes Hogan's clubhead travelling 90+ mph to go 2 inches?

 

How do you hit "up" on an object on the ground?

 

How would that not require being underneath the ground behind it, which in a golf lingo is hitting it fat.

 

 

 

The picture of Ben on the cover of 5L posted is post impact. Look at the ball, its already in flight. Not Yogi is talking about 2 inches going backwards.

 

 

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@ Two Stroke, if the top selling book of all time (which by it's very title "Five Lessons" is applied in nature) is a failure, why not far greater dissent than a couple of wankers professing loyalty to goof ball instructors in skeleton suits and aladdin outfits? How could its popularity endure for over 60 years?

Against these figures and common sense measures, how can you not consider the issue to lie with your aptitude, commitment and ability?

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@JD3..."How do you hit "up" on an object on the ground?

How would that not require being underneath the ground behind it, which in a golf lingo is hitting it fat."

Sir 3. I never said anything about hitting UP. The bottom of the arc will launch it just below the equator.

As for the clowns, I doubt Hogan thought they were anything but straight shooters.

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[quote name='Not Yogi' timestamp='1312164898' post='3440172']
@JD3..."How do you hit "up" on an object on the ground?

How would that not require being underneath the ground behind it, which in a golf lingo is hitting it fat."

Sir 3. I never said anything about hitting UP. The bottom of the arc will launch it just below the equator.

As for the clowns, I doubt Hogan thought they were anything but straight shooters.
[/quote]

That cover picture from 5L is POST IMPACT!!! The ball is in flight, look at the little lines coming out of the back of the ball.

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[quote name='Not Yogi' timestamp='1312164898' post='3440172']
@JD3..."How do you hit "up" on an object on the ground?

How would that not require being underneath the ground behind it, which in a golf lingo is hitting it fat."

Sir 3. I never said anything about hitting UP. The bottom of the arc will launch it just below the equator.

As for the clowns, I doubt Hogan thought they were anything but straight shooters.
[/quote]

Any example of this , like videos , maybe you demonstrating this point or Hogan swings . Have you factored in his clubs , didn't he have sharp leading edges with bounce taken off

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This conversation has zig-zagged all over the place. In it's course, the group has been subject to an ongoing series of bizarre personal attacks and a suspiciously protective masculine obssession that some collectively foster regarding Ben Hogan.

The discussion began on the topic of the 1-iron. Presently, it is superficially concerned with whether or not one strikes up or down upon a golf ball.

Conceding that 5 Lessons is the most successful instructional book ever written for average golfers looking to break 80 in 6 months, I would like to redirect some focus back to the 1-iron for one second.

Does one hit the ball above or below the equator with the clubface of the 1-iron to launch the ball to its destination?

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[quote name='two stroke' timestamp='1312173006' post='3440777']
This conversation has zig-zagged all over the place. In it's course, the group has been subject to an ongoing series of bizarre personal attacks and a suspiciously protective masculine obssession that some collectively foster regarding Ben Hogan.

The discussion began on the topic of the 1-iron. Presently, it is superficially concerned with whether or not one strikes up or down upon a golf ball.

Conceding that 5 Lessons is the most successful instructional book ever written for average golfers looking to break 80 in 6 months, I would like to redirect some focus back to the 1-iron for one second.

Does one hit the ball above or below the equator with the clubface of the 1-iron to launch the ball to its destination?
[/quote]
The secret to hitting a Hogan like 1 iron is not above or below but at an angle...precisely 22 degrees inside out.

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[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1312161553' post='3439951']
[quote name='Not Yogi' timestamp='1312138035' post='3439067']
Two Stroke...hostility and jealousy are stepbrothers. There has been a long fought war between two camps. [b]The long dominated PGA party liners that insist hitting down to make the ball go up....and all the others. [/b] Guys like Martinez and Squish are obvious rebels, but they're right. I'd never heard of either one until just recently, but they both stuck out as searchers and willing teachers. Both have helped many, myself especially.

Five lessons, on the other hand, not so much. In spite of all the beautiful drawings that graphically show what Hogan is saying, none of the drawings show the moment of impact. Lots and lots of the set up and followthrough illustrations, but none of impact...and shortly thereafter. Why?

I think Hogan wanted all the imitators to take those meatloaf sized divots one takes when you hit hard down. There's enough video of Hogan taking no divot or just a small quarter size chunk just under where the ball sat....not forward of where the ball was. His low spiral attack was the sweeping of the club with contact coming just at the lowest part of the arc just as the club was rising.
[/quote]

Virtually every bit of Trackman data taken from good players shows a decending clubhead through impact with everything but a driver (and perhaps teed up fairway woods). Now if you want to say that the hands and/or left shoulder are leveling out and/or rising just before impact, that's another matter entirely. "Hitting up" on a ball sitting on the ground is nonsense and is the disease of most chops.

And just how would a hand sketched illustration of Hogan 2" after the cover illustration tell us anything that the cover illustration doesn't? Hogan certainly took divots, yes shallow ones due to his low swing but divots nonetheless, Plenty of film and photographic evidence of that. I think you're just trying to see something that isn't there.

Here's just one example of many that are easily found. I'm sure we could agree that if one were to just scrape the ground and not take a divot, a 4 iron would be a prime candidate for that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLSTtlLw4dU&feature=related

Here's a 6 iron. Look at the size of that beaver pelt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxjM9zs8A00&feature=related
[/quote]
Someone gets it....

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That cover picture from 5L is POST IMPACT!!! The ball is in flight, look at the little lines coming out of the back of the ball.

Jak, Im pretty sure it's prior to impact. Ball is positioned where he wants at setup. Those lines are some artistic freedom using a faux-shadow or blades of grass to indicate the target line.

 

To answer your question from a few pages back, that illustation sure is a candidate for single most important. Could be carved up in sections (like one of those side of beef grids) to highlight several important principles.

 

wpid-51fv633LeqLSL500.jpg

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Could he? Sure he COULD. I think the better question is actually, IF Hogan were playing today, given modern woods and hybrids, WOULD he hit a 1 iron...and I highly doubt it. We are starting to see more and more professional golfers drop their 3 iron. I think the 1 Iron is going the way of the dinosaur.

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That cover picture from 5L is POST IMPACT!!! The ball is in flight, look at the little lines coming out of the back of the ball.

Jak, Im pretty sure it's prior to impact. Ball is positioned where he wants at setup. Those lines are some artistic freedom using a faux-shadow or blades of grass to indicate the target line.

 

To answer your question from a few pages back, that illustation sure is a candidate for single most important. Could be carved up in sections (like one of those side of beef grids) to highlight several important principles.

 

wpid-51fv633LeqLSL500.jpg

 

I respect your opinion, but the lines coming out from the back of the ball are not artistic impression or shading. If you look at every other ball drawn in 5L they do not have lines coming out of the back of the ball as this represents a stationary ball. All the shading of those balls are done on the inside part of the circle which represents the ball.

 

Besides, the subtext from where this picture has nothing to do with impact. Actually, this picture is from page 19 of the book where it is accompanied by another drawing, and if you draw a vertical line from Hogans' chin down to the ground you will see that the picture on the left and right are at different points in the swing. This further proves that the above posted picture which is also found on page 19 is post impact with the ball already in flight.

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You make a good case, although I dont see lines coming out back of ball, I see them behind the clubhead. I believe they exist to provide an important target line visual reference. The ball has some shading on the back. But I can see an argument it appears to be launching at a right angle to the clubface.

If you're correct, Id say tracing the blurred clubhead path confirms it was descending before, during and after impact.

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