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George Knudson, a swing more 'Hogan' than Hogan himself


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[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1345843890' post='5529435']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345167919' post='5486028']
This is my favourite footage of George Knudson because it shows off his swing beautifully. Thanks to tarifachris who uploads so many awesome videos on youtube.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VbzdoK4HvA&feature=relmfu[/media]
[/quote]


Reminds me of Tiger's current action with that massive head drop
[/quote]

It's really an upper body center of gravity drop which is a great way to give momentum to the club on the DS, provided you don't overdo it and bury the clubhead behind the ball.

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[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1345921283' post='5533275']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1345843890' post='5529435']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345167919' post='5486028']
This is my favourite footage of George Knudson because it shows off his swing beautifully. Thanks to tarifachris who uploads so many awesome videos on youtube.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VbzdoK4HvA&feature=relmfu[/media]
[/quote]


Reminds me of Tiger's current action with that massive head drop
[/quote]

It's really an upper body center of gravity drop which is a great way to give momentum to the club on the DS, provided you don't overdo it and bury the clubhead behind the ball.
[/quote]

Look at his L hip. It bends outwards. L side extension. Sort of like the bow gets bended, so the ends of the bow (head and feet) gets closer to each other.

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Just picked up a copy of knudson's book. I've tried five lessons, but it's a but too technical for my tastes (said that in the hogan forum!). I'm naturally right brained, so maybe something a little less analytical would suit my eye. That said, both great swings.

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[quote name='CARDY' timestamp='1345130328' post='5482568']
Cool that two very re-known ball strikers were Canadians (I am including Moe of course)
[/quote]

Very cool. Hard not to have heard stories of them both growing up playing golf in Toronto.

Seeing his swing reminds me of Jon Senden. Another brilliant ball striker with a putting weakness.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It would be interesting to see if Hogan and Knudson spent more time on their short games rather than their swings if they would have won more? I guess you can't have it all..................even you Tiger.

Also it's funny that lots is made about guys working out now like it has never happened before. Before Tiger and Vijay, Gary Player. Before Gary, Snead and Knudson. And before them a lot of guys served in the military etc so were strong and fit. I'm probably missing out a few so please let me know if anyone can think of any.

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I think I may figured out a little tidbit regarding Knudson's 'lateral move'. I was watching some footage of Sam Snead's 'squat move' and recalled Trevino saying something about how he had to 'break his knees towards the target'. He said he 'couldn't turn until in the club was in the slot'. That clicked on a light bulb about how even Moe got his 'lateral tug' and 'vertical drop'. Snead's knee separation is the pinnacle move that isolates what exactly they did. Hopefully I don't sound 'too bonkers', but here goes...

As Hogan would say, 'From the top of the swing'
-Keeping a straight left arm(of course) - 'feel' a PITCH ELBOW with the right
-Leading knee extends out to the target WHILE staying closed in terms of hips and shoulders.
-Basically the left knee is getting into place for impact, it shouldn't have weight on it(thus the separation of knees)
-[b]Turn[/b] into impact with the power of Triumvirate.

Trevino said 'he could do whatever he wanted to with it' and it seems like you really can.

Secret is in the dirt

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...idk JBOMB, I think the statement that Knudson made regarding weight transfer from right heel to left toes is critical for balance and keep right/left FLWs'. Otherwise the right heel comes up early and you have to pull across it to prevent a wipey-slice.

Weight transfer goes inside out and hands follow the same feel. If you force your lead leg to stay closed and turn hips and shoulders you are restricting the lumbar portion of your spine and providing a great oppertunity to injure yourself; and it is biomechanically impossible to not have weight on it (lead knee), restrict turning it, and press it to the target.

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I should rephrase that. I mean 'open/slide' the knee(i.e. lead towards the target), while keeping the hips, but more so the shoulders/lead arm asleep(closed). The pitch elbow and lead knee(separation from the rear knee) seems like the 'voluntary motion' as Knudson would say. When you think about it, he always advocated a weight transfer as you said from inside right foot (right heel) to the left (toes), but one can lean with narrow knees and of course block/over the top the path into impact. The separation of the knees allows for a much shallower approach, WHILE keeping in mind that the weight transfer is slowed down because of that separation. When you separate the knees, you can't jump on your left side as fast as keeping your knees together. A really good example of what a wide stance coupled with a knee separation is doug sanders...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny1BEmAsvD8
Tell me you don't see Trevino in Sanders... :crazy2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbdbju07IDo&feature=related

Secret is in the dirt

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[quote name='coachg' timestamp='1344890740' post='5463954']
[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343442749' post='5367698']
Anyone have any insight on George and his swing? He has wins on the PGA tour and has a sweet swing to prove it. His putter was a different story, but he's known by Trevino and numerous others to strike it like a 'master'. I really like his instructional book too. He really simplifies it down to having 'balance'.


[b] PGA Tour wins (8)[/b]
[url="http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/001640/george-knudson/"]http://www.pgatour.c...george-knudson/[/url]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPVnhIUMw8Y[/media]
video by bhughes
[/quote]
Nicklaus was quoted as saying "George had a million dollar swing and a ten cent putting stroke."
[/quote]

That's a myth, Jack wouldn't say something like that. Only the first part of the sentence is true. Though it was common knowledge that he was a terrible putter.

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[quote name='pgolf22' timestamp='1347058594' post='5604099']
It would be interesting to see if Hogan and Knudson spent more time on their short games rather than their swings if they would have won more? I guess you can't have it all..................even you Tiger.

Also it's funny that lots is made about guys working out now like it has never happened before. Before Tiger and Vijay, Gary Player. Before Gary, Snead and Knudson. And before them a lot of guys served in the military etc so were strong and fit. I'm probably missing out a few so please let me know if anyone can think of any.
[/quote]

Hogan obsessed over his putting. Jimmy D said that Hogan was the best putter of all time from 8 feet and under. It wasn't until after the car accident that his putting went to ##$%%. Valerie Hogan once wrote an essay where she claimed he lost most of his vision on his left eye but wouldn't admit it to anyone - it's what drove him from the game.

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Hogan could putt lights out before the accident for sure. Knudson, on the other hand, couldn't putt to save his life. John "lagpressure" Erickson believes that Knudson gripped his putter like how he gripped the rest of his clubs - very firm. Erickson believes that's what led to George's lack of consistency in putting, yet unreal distance control with the longer clubs.

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1347660897' post='5641271']
I think I may figured out a little tidbit regarding Knudson's 'lateral move'. I was watching some footage of Sam Snead's 'squat move' and recalled Trevino saying something about how he had to 'break his knees towards the target'. He said he 'couldn't turn until in the club was in the slot'. That clicked on a light bulb about how even Moe got his 'lateral tug' and 'vertical drop'. Snead's knee separation is the pinnacle move that isolates what exactly they did. Hopefully I don't sound 'too bonkers', but here goes...

As Hogan would say, 'From the top of the swing'
-Keeping a straight left arm(of course) - 'feel' a PITCH ELBOW with the right
-Leading knee extends out to the target WHILE staying closed in terms of hips and shoulders.
-Basically the left knee is getting into place for impact, it shouldn't have weight on it(thus the separation of knees)
-[b]Turn[/b] into impact with the power of Triumvirate.

Trevino said 'he could do whatever he wanted to with it' and it seems like you really can.
[/quote]

So just to summarize for myself and the few following Knudson's insights, I've come to the conclusion on a few of George's ideas...

[b]The 'loading' phase or backswing is comprised of two things:[/b]

[b]1. Stretching the distance between the left elbow and the left hip (ala *youtube* myswingevolution's 'Power Stretch')[/b]
[b]2. Pivoting against not only a braced right knee, but also a braced right hip(ala Jody V. and Matt Kane).[/b]
[b]NOTE: Both of these must be maintained into the 'through swing'.[/b]

[size=4][b]The 'unloading' phase or downswing consists of two things as well, but with a few notes:[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]1. [i]WHILE[/i] - staying in that backswing position(closed/power stretched), one must separate the knees by rotating laterally the lead knee into an 'open' position.[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]NOTE: You can find specifically where that knee must be before proceeding to the next step. There is a position you can move the knee before you go into a 'goat hump' position. That 'GH' position means you've gone too far because you've stretched past a point that alters your spine angle.[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]2. [i]ONLY AFTER[/i] - you find that right position with the lead knee can you rotate the rest of your body towards the position you've braced your lead knee WHILE torquing your right foot clockwise(ala Sevam1's The Move), or in other words, 'reconnect' the earlier 'separation'. [/b][/size]

My plan now is to try videoing a swing combining Hogan's concentration drill up until the last move. In other words, go slow until I place my lead knee, then turn through with a decent pace.
[b] ™[/b]

Secret is in the dirt

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[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1347906273' post='5652233']
Hogan could putt lights out before the accident for sure. Knudson, on the other hand, couldn't putt to save his life. John "lagpressure" Erickson believes that Knudson gripped his putter like how he gripped the rest of his clubs - very firm. Erickson believes that's what led to George's lack of consistency in putting, yet unreal distance control with the longer clubs.

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1347660897' post='5641271']
I think I may figured out a little tidbit regarding Knudson's 'lateral move'. I was watching some footage of Sam Snead's 'squat move' and recalled Trevino saying something about how he had to 'break his knees towards the target'. He said he 'couldn't turn until in the club was in the slot'. That clicked on a light bulb about how even Moe got his 'lateral tug' and 'vertical drop'. Snead's knee separation is the pinnacle move that isolates what exactly they did. Hopefully I don't sound 'too bonkers', but here goes...

As Hogan would say, 'From the top of the swing'
-Keeping a straight left arm(of course) - 'feel' a PITCH ELBOW with the right
-Leading knee extends out to the target WHILE staying closed in terms of hips and shoulders.
-Basically the left knee is getting into place for impact, it shouldn't have weight on it(thus the separation of knees)
-[b]Turn[/b] into impact with the power of Triumvirate.

Trevino said 'he could do whatever he wanted to with it' and it seems like you really can.
[/quote]

So just to summarize for myself and the few following Knudson's insights, I've come to the conclusion on a few of George's ideas...

[b]The 'loading' phase or backswing is comprised of two things:[/b]

[b]1. Stretching the distance between the left elbow and the left hip (ala *youtube* myswingevolution's 'Power Stretch')[/b]
[b]2. Pivoting against not only a braced right knee, but also a braced right hip(ala Jody V. and Matt Kane).[/b]
[b]NOTE: Both of these must be maintained into the 'through swing'.[/b]

[size=4][b]The 'unloading' phase or downswing consists of two things as well, but with a few notes:[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]1. [i]WHILE[/i] - staying in that backswing position(closed/power stretched), one must separate the knees by rotating laterally the lead knee into an 'open' position.[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]NOTE: You can find specifically where that knee must be before proceeding to the next step. There is a position you can move the knee before you go into a 'goat hump' position. That 'GH' position means you've gone too far because you've stretched past a point that alters your spine angle.[/b][/size]

[size=4][b]2. [i]ONLY AFTER[/i] - you find that right position with the lead knee can you rotate the rest of your body towards the position you've braced your lead knee WHILE torquing your right foot clockwise(ala Sevam1's The Move), or in other words, 'reconnect' the earlier 'separation'. [/b][/size]

My plan now is to try videoing a swing combining Hogan's concentration drill up until the last move. In other words, go slow until I place my lead knee, then turn through with a decent pace.
[b] ™[/b]
[/quote]

That's a great idea. I actually practice with regular a regular flex 3 wood sometimes to practice my transition -forces me to be more deliberate and patient. I would imagine this will do the same for you. Sh#t, I think I'm gonna try this lol thnx

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[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1347690808' post='5642851']
Tell me you don't see Trevino in Sanders...
[/quote]

Both shut face players, but Lee had a more dynamic pivot than the video you posted of Sanders. Sanders lead hip is moving away from the target before P7. Lee's wedges look a lot more stable than Sanders as well

I dont see Trevino in Sanders

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[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1348190469' post='5671287']
Both shut face players and you don't see the connection? Try look again. Specifically the transition.
[/quote]

Regarding the pivot I see Trevino making a better turn back (keep an eye on the left heel) with hands getting higher. Sanders gets deep hands and maintains the wrist like trevino in transition (but so does most other great ballstrikers), the difference is Trevino pronates/flattens the shaft more. Sanders doesnt have to because he is already there; no major arm/wrist move required.

Transition is totally different. Dont look at the knees. Watch the feet and hip sockets. Trevino and Sanders both turn back and through without overdoing extension through impact, but their weight is in totally different places. Trevino is more over his heels, Sanders is more over the balls of his feet (and he has less depth from DTL of hips turning back)

Trevino really turns the corner. Sanders has to start pulling his lead hip away from the target pre-impact otherwise he loses the tush line. If Sanders wanted to turn back and through like Trevino then he would feel like he is sitting in a chair the whole time

And the setups are different. At first glance they just look like similar swings solely because they dont goat hump.

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The lack of 'goat hump' is the very reason they are such extraordinary ball-strikers. The knees(lead knee specifically) is IMHO the very reason. A separation too far will initiate that 'goat hump' because the lead knee has no where to go, therefore, it's like a chain reaction for the hips to provide additional movement throughout the hit to prevent 'stalling'. A separation 'too little' will cause a spin-out because there is not enough lateral motion to shallow the swing plane in the DS.

The reason for the major difference in the dynamics of the pivot is of course because of their [i]set ups[/i]. Sanders has a VERY wide stance. The hips are restricted from swaying and 'over-rotating'. Trevino's setup is 'incredibly open' in relation to the target. That allows him to turn 'more' without swaying. The 'first' goal (I believe) is to get yourself into position 'at the top'. From there, if you can make a 'one-piece move without a goat hump' through the impact zone. You're on the right track ala Sanders, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Snead, Nelson, Norman, and (insert great ball-striker's name).

Secret is in the dirt

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  • 1 year later...

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1348195342' post='5671753']
The lack of 'goat hump' is the very reason they are such extraordinary ball-strikers. The knees(lead knee specifically) is IMHO the very reason. A separation too far will initiate that 'goat hump' because the lead knee has no where to go, therefore, it's like a chain reaction for the hips to provide additional movement throughout the hit to prevent 'stalling'. A separation 'too little' will cause a spin-out because there is not enough lateral motion to shallow the swing plane in the DS.

The reason for the major difference in the dynamics of the pivot is of course because of their [i]set ups[/i]. Sanders has a VERY wide stance. The hips are restricted from swaying and 'over-rotating'. Trevino's setup is 'incredibly open' in relation to the target. That allows him to turn 'more' without swaying. The 'first' goal (I believe) is to get yourself into position 'at the top'. From there, if you can make a 'one-piece move without a goat hump' through the impact zone. You're on the right track ala Sanders, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Snead, Nelson, Norman, and (insert great ball-striker's name).
[/quote]

Bumping this thread - it is relevant RE: knee bend and Knudsen. Left knee bend is the anti-goat hump... which gets you lower to ground, increasing #3, thus increasing accuracy thus making you a great ball striker. Left knee bend in is your friend. That rhymes so maybe Pin can write us a poem.

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you must be psychic ej.
last night i sent this to a mate.

Anyhow the key is the left knee!!
It goes to the rear without fear,
then the upper is free like a good cup of tea.
If it pokes out too much, ur trapped like a rabbit in a hutch.

i was practicing last night and began getting the left knee to come in along the target line, something I have done before at times.
Its part of my BSE (Best Swing Ever) Contender #3.
what it does to me is make it feel like my left hip is coming in underneath me (Mike Austin's pendulum hips??),
it does feel like your left shoulder hardly moves and your left hip is pushed laterally underneath you, getting the club to the ball is much easier from this position because the left knee is not blocking the forward motion.
All the good old golfers had the left knee come in, with left foot roll to the rear, often onto the toe as well.
Get the left knee behind the ball then you're free to smack it all.

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