New Zero tolerance Rules for Hogan Swing Forum

[Gxgolfer]

1) If any infraction of the GolfWRX rules is reported in the Hogan or Instruction Forum is verified then there is a 6 month posting suspension. 2nd warning equals ban. There is no appeal process.

 

2) Verified re registered account = banned

 

3) Posters must have 75 posts in order for your posts to appear in the Hogan Forum. Similar to the BST, if you post more than 10 times a day, posting privileges may be suspended to the amount equal to posts run up to get your posts shown in the forum. Moderator may approved posts at their discretion.

 

Let me clarify 3) again

 

You need a minimum of 75 posts to have your posts appear in the Hogan forum. If you register and post 75 times within a few days you will have your posting privileges suspended. This is exactly how the BST is ran. If you have over 75 posts, it does not apply.

 

Reported posts are moderators discretion to arbitrate and punishment accordingly.

[Gxgolfer]

This topic will be open for 24 hrs for comment. Do not send me PMs or emails on this topic.

[CrashDavis]

Do me a favor and delete this account. I got no interest in anything going on here, honestly its a bad joke and precisely why I always avoided places like this like a plague.

EJECT

[ej002]

IMO a little excessive. The hard debate and high tension is the reason why there is a Hogan subforum in the first place. It is the same few people in here, and when there is no debate going on the area turns into a ghost town. Its the shared knowledge of a few people who are unable to post right now that keeps me loggin in. When their knowledge goes away, I suspect readers will too. JMO

[drewspin]

Later.

[proguy]

wrx all about the sponsers. Sellout!

[highergr0und]

Is it really that hard to follow the rules?

[proguy]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1350483268' post='5806033']
Is it really that hard to follow the rules?
[/quote]

careful don't waste your post for today you might get Banned.

[Gxgolfer]

No clue about the Sponsors comment. I clarified the post run up suspension.

[Puppetmaster]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1350483268' post='5806033']
Is it really that hard to follow the rules?
[/quote]

Civil debates and conversations seem to be a challenge around here of late.

[Stryker]

I think it's a good change. I try to follow the threads in the Hogan sub forum, but I get tired of scrolling past all of the senseless bickering.

[highergr0und]

[quote name='Puppetmaster' timestamp='1350484007' post='5806107']
[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1350483268' post='5806033']
Is it really that hard to follow the rules?
[/quote]

Civil debates and conversations seem to be a challenge around here of late.
[/quote]

Oh I've noticed..... And I've pretty much stopped reading the instruction forums because of it. It used to be about 75% good info and 25% attacks, but it's pretty much flipped, especially as we've run off some of our bigger, knowledgeable guys.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350481531' post='5805919']
IMO a little excessive. [b]The hard debate and high tension is the reason why there is a Hogan subforum in the first place[/b]. It is the same few people in here, and when there is no debate going on the area turns into a ghost town. Its the shared knowledge of a few people who are unable to post right now that keeps me loggin in. When their knowledge goes away, I suspect readers will too. JMO
[/quote]

^ This,

People like to read the exchange but don't like the bickering? Guess what, there won't be many exchanges of any value if you guys institute this change. Some of the more entertaining and thought provoking posters ever to post on this forum have already been banned. This place gets boring without some heated exchange and then better posters just leave. It's become this way in the entire instruction sub-forum. Quality of information has gone way down in the last 3 years, IMO and it's turned mostly into the blind leading the blind with a few exceptions. I agree with cracking down on personal attacks, but not heated disagreements.

[proguy]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1350487236' post='5806437']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350481531' post='5805919']
IMO a little excessive. [b]The hard debate and high tension is the reason why there is a Hogan subforum in the first place[/b]. It is the same few people in here, and when there is no debate going on the area turns into a ghost town. Its the shared knowledge of a few people who are unable to post right now that keeps me loggin in. When their knowledge goes away, I suspect readers will too. JMO
[/quote]

^ This,

People like to read the exchange but don't like the bickering? Guess what, there won't be many exchanges of any value if you guys institute this change. Some of the more entertaining and thought provoking posters ever to post on this forum have already been banned. This place gets boring without some heated exchange and then better posters just leave. It's become this way in the entire instruction sub-forum. Quality of information has gone way down in the last 3 years, IMO and it's turned mostly into the blind leading the blind with a few exceptions. I agree with cracking down on personal attacks, but not heated disagreements.
[/quote]

Bravo! Spot on.

Several years ago this site and forum was money for finding info on the swing and some of the best teachers in the country/UK.

[MrParr1Noid]

The problems in the Hogan forum is, there are those who know nothing about the swing, and they are merely relaying the message from someone that might or might not know. Then there are those who know, and then there are those who think they know. Which is which? It's pretty hard to decipher 6 guys arguing and bickering, who's right and or who's wrong. Moderators don't have the want nor the time to read through, and sift the wheat from the chaff.

I believe our owner / administrator has put together a fine piece of write with which to amend the "Rules & Terms" with regards to our "Swings Forums".

Thank You

[ej002]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350490301' post='5806727']
The problems in the Hogan forum is, there [b]are those who know nothing about the swing, and they are merely relaying the message from someone that might or might not know. Then there are those who know, and then there are those who think they know[/b]. Which is which? It's pretty hard to decipher 6 guys arguing and bickering, [b]who's right and or who's wrong[/b]. Moderators don't have the want nor the time to read and sift through the wheat and the chaff to see which is which.

I believe our owner / administrator has put together a fine piece of write in which to amend our "Rules & Terms" with regards to the "Swings Forums".

Thank You
[/quote]

I don't want to be offensive, but I think your interpretation is way off. The reason why there is bickering is because nobody actually knows and nobody can prove anything with 100% of certainty. We all have theories and ideas that we believe in, but all we have to base these on are the accounts left from Hogan and his students. The point is that there will never be a settled "right or wrong" because Hogan cannot come here and tell us who is right and wrong, nor can he explain why. All we can do is argue and maybe convince each other. If you actually read through this stuff and follow it, there is very good information in here. Actually, there is LOADs of it. Much of it is rehashed, but even I (who has been here for 5 years, and has read everything) learn new things. In the last month there have been some gems, and I even had my mind changed recently. I am just afraid that this learning process will be stifled. For example, since a few guys have been put in the penalty box right the activity in here has fell off.

[Oldboy]

this is unfortunate .. there has definitely been BOTH a decline in civility and subsequently a decline in thoughtful posts being made .. there used to be so much more quality swing/golf posts/topics and now i see posts about what belt to wear .. an unfortunate restriction of posting but probably necessary .. it was getting to where only every third post actually was readable .. but we have definitely lost the back and forth that stimulates thought and presents knowledge and information .. very sad

[Mr. Herbert]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350492468' post='5806897']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350490301' post='5806727']
The problems in the Hogan forum is, there [b]are those who know nothing about the swing, and they are merely relaying the message from someone that might or might not know. Then there are those who know, and then there are those who think they know[/b]. Which is which? It's pretty hard to decipher 6 guys arguing and bickering, [b]who's right and or who's wrong[/b]. Moderators don't have the want nor the time to read and sift through the wheat and the chaff to see which is which.

I believe our owner / administrator has put together a fine piece of write in which to amend our "Rules & Terms" with regards to the "Swings Forums".

Thank You
[/quote]

I don't want to be offensive, but I think your interpretation is way off. The reason why there is bickering is because nobody actually knows and nobody can prove anything with 100% of certainty. We all have theories and ideas that we believe in, but all we have to base these on are the accounts left from Hogan and his students. The point is that there will never be a settled "right or wrong" because Hogan cannot come here and tell us who is right and wrong, nor can he explain why. All we can do is argue and maybe convince each other. If you actually read through this stuff and follow it, there is very good information in here. Actually, there is LOADs of it. Much of it is rehashed, but even I (who has been here for 5 years, and has read everything) learn new things. In the last month there have been some gems, and I even had my mind changed recently. I am just afraid that this learning process will be stifled. For example, since a few guys have been put in the penalty box right the activity in here has fell off.
[/quote]

Agreed. I've never understood why the mods feel they have to intervene in every difference of opinion. And there is no reason the policy here has to be "There are a few bad apples here, therefore we have to treat you all like children". Why can't it be "There are a few bad apples here, ignore them, don't respond to them and eventually they will go away".

[double or triple?]

Even though I never venture in to the Hogan forum, I believe the need to moderate the forum comes out of necessity and not done to exile the masses over the bickering of the few. Just as stated earlier there are many opinions that come up in discussion regarding the Hogan swing and the ideas and reasons behind it. As a highly regarded website, whose members are not only golf enthuastists(sic) but also employees of most, if not all the golf manufacturers and major golf journals, the people responsible for this website also have responsibility for the content and manner in which it's member interact.

[MadGolfer76]

Zero tolerance policy? Is the Hogan forum somebody's pet project that it would get a stricter set of rules than the Equipment forum (say) or even Tour Talk? There is disinformation and bickering all over this site from time to time. Why the hammer down in the Hogan forum?

Such a move kills the good along with the bad. Knowledgeable people with a different idea will likely decide posting isn't worth the risk. The forum will revert back to the same four or five guys who end up regurgitating the same ideas over and over in threads with different titles and the same old content.

ZTP's only add to the workload, create a lot of hard feelings, and breeds mistrust among the membership. Don't know that this is a healthy move for WRX.

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350492468' post='5806897']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350490301' post='5806727']
The problems in the Hogan forum is, there [b]are those who know nothing about the swing, and they are merely relaying the message from someone that might or might not know. Then there are those who know, and then there are those who think they know[/b]. Which is which? It's pretty hard to decipher 6 guys arguing and bickering, [b]who's right and or who's wrong[/b]. Moderators don't have the want nor the time to read and sift through the wheat and the chaff to see which is which.

I believe our owner / administrator has put together a fine piece of write in which to amend our "Rules & Terms" with regards to the "Swings Forums".

Thank You
[/quote]

[b]I don't want to be offensive, but I think your interpretation is way off[/b]. The reason why there is bickering is because nobody actually knows and nobody can prove anything with 100% of certainty. We all have theories and ideas that we believe in, but all we have to base these on are the accounts left from Hogan and his students. The point is that there will never be a settled "right or wrong" because Hogan cannot come here and tell us who is right and wrong, nor can he explain why. All we can do is argue and maybe convince each other. If you actually read through this stuff and follow it, there is very good information in here. Actually, there is LOADs of it. Much of it is rehashed, but even I (who has been here for 5 years, and has read everything) learn new things. In the last month there have been some gems, and I even had my mind changed recently. I am just afraid that this learning process will be stifled. For example, since a few guys have been put in the penalty box right the activity in here has fell off.
[/quote]

Nor do I intend to be offensive to you either. But, if Hogan were here today, there would still be those who would argue with him, and attempt to find fault with him, and his teachings or ideas of today. Some of you guys are hell bent on argument, and just plain rolling in the mud, and razing hell.

Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go? GolfWRX is providing for you and like minded followers, a place to discuss, and to enjoy the Hogan instruction and ideas. Why is this so bad to have rules and guidelines? GolfWRX will not allow our golf web site to become a free for all, no holds barred, knock down drag out fight like it's been. The majority of our members here are in favor of the dignified quality and behavior that GolfWRX is known for, and we will be vigilant in our efforts to keep it that way.

Thank You

[Timanator]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1350495070' post='5807107']


Such a move kills the good along with the bad. Knowledgeable people with a different idea will likely decide posting isn't worth the risk. The forum will revert back to the same four or five guys who end up regurgitating the same ideas over and over in threads with different titles and the same old content.

[/quote]

But would the Knowledgeable people argue with the few that takes things over board with the personal insults which really turns the discussions sour?

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1350495070' post='5807107']
Zero tolerance policy? Is the Hogan forum somebody's pet project that it would get a stricter set of rules than the Equipment forum (say) or even Tour Talk? There is disinformation and bickering all over this site from time to time. Why the hammer down in the Hogan forum?

Such a move kills the good along with the bad. Knowledgeable people with a different idea will likely decide posting isn't worth the risk. The forum will revert back to the same four or five guys who end up regurgitating the same ideas over and over in threads with different titles and the same old content.

ZTP's only add to the workload, create a lot of hard feelings, and breeds mistrust among the membership. Don't know that this is a healthy move for WRX.
[/quote]

+1

Zero tolerance policies almost never work and always result in unintended and undesirable consequences.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350495504' post='5807161']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350492468' post='5806897']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350490301' post='5806727']
The problems in the Hogan forum is, there [b]are those who know nothing about the swing, and they are merely relaying the message from someone that might or might not know. Then there are those who know, and then there are those who think they know[/b]. Which is which? It's pretty hard to decipher 6 guys arguing and bickering, [b]who's right and or who's wrong[/b]. Moderators don't have the want nor the time to read and sift through the wheat and the chaff to see which is which.

I believe our owner / administrator has put together a fine piece of write in which to amend our "Rules & Terms" with regards to the "Swings Forums".

Thank You
[/quote]

[b]I don't want to be offensive, but I think your interpretation is way off[/b]. The reason why there is bickering is because nobody actually knows and nobody can prove anything with 100% of certainty. We all have theories and ideas that we believe in, but all we have to base these on are the accounts left from Hogan and his students. The point is that there will never be a settled "right or wrong" because Hogan cannot come here and tell us who is right and wrong, nor can he explain why. All we can do is argue and maybe convince each other. If you actually read through this stuff and follow it, there is very good information in here. Actually, there is LOADs of it. Much of it is rehashed, but even I (who has been here for 5 years, and has read everything) learn new things. In the last month there have been some gems, and I even had my mind changed recently. I am just afraid that this learning process will be stifled. For example, since a few guys have been put in the penalty box right the activity in here has fell off.
[/quote]

Nor do I intend to be offensive to you as well. But, if Hogan were here today, there would still be those who would argue with, and attempt to find fault with he, and his teachings or ideas today. Some of you guys are hell bent on argument, and just plain rolling in the mud, and razing hell.

[b]Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go? [/b]GolfWRX is providing for you and like minded followers, a place to discuss, and to enjoy the Hogan instruction and ideas. Why is this so bad to have rules and guidelines? GolfWRX will not allow our golf web site to become a free for all, no holds barred, knock down drag out fight like it's been. The majority of our members here are in favor of the dignified quality and behavior that GolfWRX is known for, and we will be vigilant in our efforts to keep it that way.

Thank You
[/quote]

BSG, Ralph's Gotham Blog forum (virtually "anything goes"), Richie 3Jacks forum, Manzella's forum, probably a few others out there as well.

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='Mr. Herbert' timestamp='1350494267' post='5807031']
Agreed. I've never understood why the mods feel they have to intervene in every difference of opinion. And there is no reason the policy here has to be "There are a few bad apples here, therefore we have to treat you all like children". Why can't it be "There are a few bad apples here, ignore them, don't respond to them and eventually they will go away".
[/quote]

Again, you fail to understand where the problems are in Hogan's forum. Reports are being sent to the moderators as to a problem which exists and is being reported to us. (A Rules Infraction, if you will)
We as moderators, react to these reports by our members. And now comes the problem, the (report) is being sent on "page 27 of a 43 page thread. We moderators don't have the time to read through all 43 pages of this thread, let alone to decipher who is right, and who is wrong. It would still come down to who's interpretation it is ... Who is more wrong or who is more right...

Many of our members views of what we, the moderating staff do, are skewed to say the least. We react to violations reports being sent to us by our members.,

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1350495564' post='5807169']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1350495070' post='5807107']
Such a move kills the good along with the bad. Knowledgeable people with a different idea will likely decide posting isn't worth the risk. The forum will revert back to the same four or five guys who end up regurgitating the same ideas over and over in threads with different titles and the same old content.

[/quote]

But would the Knowledgeable people argue with the few that takes things over board with the personal insults which really turns the discussions sour?
[/quote]

If it truly is "a few," good policy-making (which I do have experience with) says that you address the behavior of "the few" and not create a rigid standard that infantilizes the many. All it takes under such a policy is for one or two people to hit the "report" button on a post that contradicts their personal stance or statements in a thread and the poster gets kicked for 6 months when the wording might not have reflected the intent.

Like I said, that forum got "comfortable" with just a few guys sitting around patting each other on the back for their knowledge of the Hogan swing - there haven't been any significant additions to the existing conversations there in a long time. If any forum needed to have the freedom to reach outside the box, it is that one. I don't think it is a good idea to limit the potential of conversations just to get rid of a few trolls. If we know who the offenders are - ban them. Mods are setting themselves up for a lot of work, because it is in the nature of intelligent people to disagree.

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1350496078' post='5807233']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350495504' post='5807161']
Nor do I intend to be offensive to you as well. But, if Hogan were here today, there would still be those who would argue with, and attempt to find fault with he, and his teachings or ideas today. Some of you guys are hell bent on argument, and just plain rolling in the mud, and razing hell.

[b]Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go? [/b]GolfWRX is providing for you and like minded followers, a place to discuss, and to enjoy the Hogan instruction and ideas. Why is this so bad to have rules and guidelines? GolfWRX will not allow our golf web site to become a free for all, no holds barred, knock down drag out fight like it's been. The majority of our members here are in favor of the dignified quality and behavior that GolfWRX is known for, and we will be vigilant in our efforts to keep it that way.

Thank You
[/quote]

BSG, Ralph's Gotham Blog forum (virtually "anything goes"), Richie 3Jacks forum, Manzella's forum, probably a few others out there as well.
[/quote]

Then why not take the arguments, and the belly aching, and the complaining, over to one of those sites. Fight it out over on their sites but when you are here? We ask that you abide by our "Rules & Terms" set forth.

[Timanator]

MadGolfer76

And of course that's the other end of the "Zero Tolerance". What is considered a policy breach.

But I would rather have this forum be moderated rather than a free for all like the Smack Down forums on alot of web sites. Hogan would not have been tolerant to some of the behaviors on this forum?

[Locked]

The internet is a funny place... all this over one guy's swing.
I'm going to start a thread where people can try and imitate my swing, people can argue the merits and whether or not people know what they are talking about, and I'll see if (even with it being my own swing) there is anything I can do to convince people one way or another.

[MizunoJoe]

Will we still be able to debate whether or not Hogan rolled and arched his left wrist without supinating his left forearm?