New Zero tolerance Rules for Hogan Swing Forum

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350495504' post='5807161']
Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go? [/quote]

Hmmm, thanks for bringing this point up. Anybody know of any other Hogan forums? If any others happen to exist, can somebody provide a full listing?

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350498304' post='5807421']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350495504' post='5807161']
Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go? [/quote]

Hmmm, thanks for bringing this point up. Anybody know of any other Hogan forums? If any others happen to exist, can somebody provide a full listing?
[/quote]

[color=#282828]BSG, Ralph's Gotham Blog forum (virtually "anything goes"), Richie 3Jacks forum, Manzella's forum, probably a few others out there as well. [/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Locked' timestamp='1350497038' post='5807307']
The internet is a funny place... all this over one guy's swing.
I'm going to start a thread where people can try and imitate my swing, people can argue the merits and whether or not people know what they are talking about, and I'll see if (even with it being my own swing) there is anything I can do to convince people one way or another.
[/quote]

Cool! I'm looking forward to seeing your swing. When will you post it? I'm looking for the Hogan traits in your swing so we can begin meaningful discussion and analysis.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1350496663' post='5807289']
MadGolfer76

And of course that's the other end of the "Zero Tolerance". What is considered a policy breach.

But I would rather have this forum be moderated rather than a free for all like the Smack Down forums on alot of web sites. Hogan would not have been tolerant to some of the behaviors on this forum?
[/quote]

Tim, I get what you are saying, but surely you agree that these forums already [i]are[/i] moderated? This isn't exactly the wild west of internet posting, it is just a couple people whose behavior in WRX/Hogan hasn't been sufficiently addressed. My fear is that even a friendly exchange such as ours could (if misinterpreted) be viewed as disruptive under such a policy. The ironic thing about ZTP's is that they allow a lot of freedom of interpretation to those who hold authority despite the fact that they are brick wall for everyone else.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350498304' post='5807421']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350495504' post='5807161']
[b]Question, if it were not for the GolfWRX's web site / platform by which the Hogan instructors, and students to instruct, philosophize and to exchange ideas, where would you go?[/b] [/quote]

Hmmm, thanks for bringing this point up. Anybody know of any other Hogan forums? If any others happen to exist, can somebody provide a full listing?
[/quote]

That's easy. I would go [i]practice.[/i]

[TeeAce]

Ok guys, it seems I have made quite a mess here and without my thoughts and amount of postings and replies for everything all has been fine.

Want to thank all you who has listened and hopefully I have been able to help some people to find something and find new ways of thinking, but it also seems it's time for me to jump out of the train and help this forum getting more peaceful place again.

My e-mail is visible in my profile and I try to answer any question I get if someone is interested.

Thanks and play well guys.

[kellygreen]

This sounds to me like dropping a [i][b]nuke[/b][/i] to break up a bar fight.

You'll take out the combatants...but you run the risk of killing off that part of the forum entirely.

Because people who might have something of value to contribute, will likely look at that policy and just decide that posting there just isn't worth the hassle or worth the risk of getting caught in the blast radius of a misunderstood exchange or a moderator having a bad day.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350499415' post='5807535']
Ok guys, it seems I have made quite a mess here and without my thoughts and amount of postings and replies for everything all has been fine.

Want to thank all you who has listened and hopefully I have been able to help some people to find something and find new ways of thinking, but it also seems it's time for me to jump out of the train and help this forum getting more peaceful place again.

My e-mail is visible in my profile and I try to answer any question I get if someone is interested.

Thanks and play well guys.
[/quote]

It's been a blast Tee! Be sure to tell the conductor to slow the train a bit so when you jump you don't hurt any of them thar golf muscles! I look forward to seeing you at Q-school, as long as they let me play with persimmons and blades.

P.S. Thank you for telling me Hogan's secret. I promise to tell no one.

[Thrillhouse]

This seems like it is going to cause problems. A 6 month ban simply because someone didn't like a post and reported it? A lot of "rules infractions" are in a pretty broad grey area based on the interpretation of whatever moderator is handling the situation. If you guys do this you're going to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

On top of this, the people who make these forums what they are are the people who participate more than the average wrxer. Why do they participate more? Because they have more to say than the average bear. This rule will catch some of those people and if you run them off there won't be valuable information in the forums and traffic will go down.

I agree that the hogan forum is a problem area, but this isn't the way to handle it. If its that big of a deal then just shut it down and apply the same rule to hogan swing talk that you do to politics and religion. Just say "we don't do that here" and shut down hogan swing threads if they pop up. Then if someone wants to talk about hogans swing they can go to a forum that supports it just like people who want to discuss religion and politics do.

[Jericho]

+1 Thrillhouse

Whatever happened to the days of setting some basic ground rules (i.e. no touching of the hair or face) and then banning anyone that gets severely out of hand? Instead we're throwing down some "Escape from LA" rules? Ban people for inappropriate photos or blantant trolling...but now for heated discussions about a sport? lol

[moonshine]

I don't regularly enter the Hogan forum. While many have little talent for writing down what their mind is thinking, I can't get much from black and white unless we do it in person...instruction that is. I have a short story about a similar situation I experienced if everyone will give just a minute to read.

I joined a well known cigar forum a few years back. The rules section was huge! I joined because by word of mouth I was told it would be a good place to get to know people that like to trade and collect rare stuff. I was made to introduce myself, and basically assigned ROOKIE status under my profile. Every time I would post or make inquiry there were a few with mega count post history peeing on my parade....every time! It got old quick...I fired back...got banned. I don't want that type of environment around here...and even though I have been here a while there are many that join and immediately take to offending everyone and everything written.

I enjoy reading information here every day. I also recommend golfwrx and have met others on the course that are part of this forum. I would hate to turn them on to it and as a low post count rookie get lambasted on any subject at any time.

[highergr0und]

You guys are acting like you can't talk the swing any more..... All they are saying is to keep the rules in mind and don't post nonstop in the threads.

[hoganfan924]

I don't see Thrillhouse getting banned for his 10+ posts/day! I guess it's OK to break the rules as long as it's not in the Hogan forum. lol

[chrisgilly09]

Lol I would never limit thrill's or your posts/day

[Lefty_Lion]

Not quite sure if this is a level...

Or just eagerness



[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350498554' post='5807457']
[quote name='Locked' timestamp='1350497038' post='5807307']
The internet is a funny place... all this over one guy's swing.
I'm going to start a thread where people can try and imitate my swing, people can argue the merits and whether or not people know what they are talking about, and I'll see if (even with it being my own swing) there is anything I can do to convince people one way or another.
[/quote]

Cool! I'm looking forward to seeing your swing. When will you post it? I'm looking for the Hogan traits in your swing so we can begin meaningful discussion and analysis.
[/quote]

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1350501608' post='5807741']
I don't see Thrillhouse getting banned for his 10+ posts/day! I guess it's OK to break the rules as long as it's not in the Hogan forum. lol
[/quote]

That was uncalled for.

This thread isn't about me, it's about the hogan forum, let's stick to that.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1350501409' post='5807733']
You guys are acting like you can't talk the swing any more..... All they are saying is to keep the rules in mind and don't post nonstop in the threads.
[/quote]

Think those new rules this way. I go to sleep when people normally get active here and they post a lot during my night time, maybe even questions for me. While having my coffee in the morning I read those things and find interesting things and start to answer some question. And I'm limited to do that ten posts? And someone ask me to deliberate something... I can't... might get banned by going over the limit... someone understands it wrong way and I cant clarify it?

So normal conversation is forbidden... and the forum is dead.

I see and understand those problems, specially multi nick things and new nicks only to attack someone, but to kill normal civil conversation with that kind of rules...no.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Lefty_Lion' timestamp='1350501813' post='5807759']
Not quite sure if this is a level...

Or just eagerness



[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350498554' post='5807457']
[quote name='Locked' timestamp='1350497038' post='5807307']
The internet is a funny place... all this over one guy's swing.
I'm going to start a thread where people can try and imitate my swing, people can argue the merits and whether or not people know what they are talking about, and I'll see if (even with it being my own swing) there is anything I can do to convince people one way or another.
[/quote]

Cool! I'm looking forward to seeing your swing. When will you post it? I'm looking for the Hogan traits in your swing so we can begin meaningful discussion and analysis.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I'm not sure what a "level" is, but anwhoo, I'm super serious about the stinking golf swing. When someone says they're gonna post it, I'm putting my Hogan decoder glasses on Sir!

Waaaaaaait a minute..............was Locked just kidding about posting his swing?? What the hey!? Is there a forum rule about teasing?

[MadGolfer76]

This thread is only designed to let everyone get their complaints aired before the policy takes effect, regardless of what is said here. That is why "no email/PM's" has been mentioned and a different mod than the one who made the OP is watching over it. I don't think they care to hear our protests at all, so I suppose it is no use wasting the effort to keep posting.

[Thrillhouse]

Why is THIS thread leading to this kind of infighting guys?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

My apologies, but I'm probably asking a stupid question here, but I want to make absolutely sure cause I beleive in being a rule follower. Regarding the 10 posts per day rule: Is that for each thread, or 10 posts anywhere in the forum?

[ej002]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1350502332' post='5807823']
Why is THIS thread leading to this kind of infighting guys?
[/quote]

Bc we need some traffic here before we go dark...

closing... time..... one more call alcohol...

[kellygreen]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1350501409' post='5807733']
You guys are acting like you can't talk the swing any more..... All they are saying is to keep the rules in mind and don't post nonstop in the threads.
[/quote]

Three big problems with this policy.

1. Ten posts is not "posting non-stop". I can easily exceed that limit in a half-day on a thread, simply because it is interesting and I have time to participate in the conversation. That kind of rule would make it really not worth my while to even risk participating and calling attention to myself given the consequenes for any mis-steps in that arena.

2. The moderators on this forum wield tremendous power. Everyone of them that I've come to recognize seem to be decent guys...but each one seems to interpret the rules a bit differently and any decision that they make as far as identifying and punishing infractions is FINAL. No appeals.

3. Suspend someone for 6 months, you might as well ban them. Because the vast majority will never come back...and those who will be embittered. Not to mention the corrosive effect that having such a huge sword hanging over people's heads will have on participation.

I just think Thrillhouse's idea is the better solution. If this topic is the problem, then ban the topic. That way you don't turn individuals into villans, and have a lot of other people wind up as collateral damage in going after them.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350502404' post='5807835']
My apologies, but I'm probably asking a stupid question here, but I want to make absolutely sure cause I beleive in being a rule follower. Regarding the 10 posts per day rule: Is that for each thread, or 10 posts anywhere in the forum?
[/quote]

I remember a guy got booted and what was cited was 10 posts anywhere. I think it is because of the BST. Honestly, though, I think they only cite that when someone is becoming a sufficient nuisance, but I could be wrong.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1350502332' post='5807823']
Why is THIS thread leading to this kind of infighting guys?
[/quote]

Human nature.

The fewer the number of facts that are available to any discussion, the more passionately opinions and beliefs about it get held.

The beliefs and opinions of others are easy to go after. Going after Facts is like trying to run over an oak tree with an SUV.

You'll make a lot of noise...but the tree always wins.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1350502656' post='5807867']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350502404' post='5807835']
My apologies, but I'm probably asking a stupid question here, but I want to make absolutely sure cause I beleive in being a rule follower. Regarding the 10 posts per day rule: Is that for each thread, or 10 posts anywhere in the forum?
[/quote]

I remember a guy got booted and what was cited was 10 posts anywhere. I think it is because of the BST. Honestly, though, I think they only cite that when someone is becoming a sufficient nuisance, but I could be wrong.
[/quote]

Whoa.....10 posts anywhere.....wow. Gonna be difficult, but I can do it. I just gotta limit myself to 10 thoughts.

HOLEY SHMOLEY!!! THIS IS ALREADY MY 6TH POST IN THIS THREAD TODAY! Time to conserve my thoughts cause I want to put up some Hogan swing analysis video to discuss later.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1350501901' post='5807775']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1350501608' post='5807741']
I don't see Thrillhouse getting banned for his 10+ posts/day! I guess it's OK to break the rules as long as it's not in the Hogan forum. lol
[/quote]

That was uncalled for.

This thread isn't about me, it's about the hogan forum, let's stick to that.
[/quote]

I really like your stuff. Just pointing out the folly of "zero tolerance." You AVERAGE like 15 posts/day. With zero tolerance in effect, you would have been banned long ago. This is just one example of why ZTP doesn't work. IMO, this site is becoming more PC every year and losing quality contributors because of it. Instruction forum has seriously deteriorated in the last 3 years, IMO and it has very little to do with heated disagreements. Some of the best threads ever on this site had some strenuous disagreements that were allowed to continue.

I've seen more frequent heavy handedness by moderators recently and it makes this place a lot less appealing.

[drewspin]

[color="#353535"]All herald the return of alansmithdc[/color], 1lovegolf24, and Keern for Hogan's Angle reprised!

[chrisgilly09]

Well said hgfan I have learned enough in the old Slice/S&T/Martinez/MORAD/Hogan threads for a few lifetimes. And most times someone from each party had something to say in each of those threads which sped up knowledge because it pointed out slight differences in philosophy. Thats why I appreciate you because you have first hand knowledge of these methods, and cuz I just enjoy reading your stuff...

Anyways, I'll be the nostalgic one and mourn the losses of Magnum, Geoff J., Siteseer2, Lake, fcvallo(sp?), eightiron, etc

This is ridiculous

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350503035' post='5807901']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1350502656' post='5807867']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350502404' post='5807835']
My apologies, but I'm probably asking a stupid question here, but I want to make absolutely sure cause I beleive in being a rule follower. Regarding the 10 posts per day rule: Is that for each thread, or 10 posts anywhere in the forum?
[/quote]

I remember a guy got booted and what was cited was 10 posts anywhere. I think it is because of the BST. Honestly, though, I think they only cite that when someone is becoming a sufficient nuisance, but I could be wrong.
[/quote]

Whoa.....10 posts anywhere.....wow. Gonna be difficult, but I can do it. I just gotta limit myself to 10 thoughts.

HOLEY SHMOLEY!!! THIS IS ALREADY MY 6TH POST IN THIS THREAD TODAY! Time to conserve my thoughts cause I want to put up some Hogan swing analysis video to discuss later.
[/quote]

Yeah, I don't know if they really police that very much. I go over 10 posts a day quite a lot. I think what was mentioned in the OP is really just referring to any one particular thread in the Hogan forum. I think the rest is just to protect the BST.