TMAX review of ANSER VS. 913 D3...The two killer drivers of the fall

[station2station]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1351737762' post='5875725']
I'm just telling you that's not the case, we're discussing averages... not nitpicking one or two shots. We see efficient numbers with Anser at 12 and 2200 and we see efficient numbers with 913 at 15 and 2600. Why do you think going to D3 in 8.5 would yield anything different than 12 and 2200 to 15 and 2600... so lets say 13 and 2400... nothing was gain nor lost just trading carry for roll. Again, the only way he can be more efficient keeping ball speed constant is launching higher with less spin.

Launching at 16.5 with 2400 is going to give MORE carry with the same roll which achieves more total. Going 8.5 in D3 is again, only a trade off for carry or roll.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Decreased loft and a shallow angle of attack decreases spin and vice versa. Excessive spin is wasted energy. And I'm referring to the 3-4 shots that are between 2800 and 3600 - not the average figure. He hit 8 shots with the 913d3 and 4 (half) of them are pretty high spin. (some are damn low as well). The attack angles are not listed on these hits.

But I digress --- My question is [i]primarily[/i], why the massive differential in spin in the 913 (1674-3600 and an even distribution in between) as opposed to the Ansers tighter range? I saw the averages. You might be talking about averages. I'm not. I wish my drives on the course were averages. I'd shoot lower numbers.

[b]This is not a commentary on the quality of the reviewers swing. He is pretty damn consistent as we saw with his first trial.[/b]

I'm a potential 913 buyer!

[b][color=#b22222](edit- just saw your response above, TMax - thanks. Never any offense intended - just curious if the redesign by Titleist is a bit of a "wild horse")[/color][/b]

[gettingworse]

My brother and i hit the D3 last night at the range. Our swings are polar opposite,.He tends to hit down on his driver too much and previous trackman numbers for him have told us that he tends to produce too much spin, average ss for him with his driver is 116 ish. I am shallow/flatter and tend to hit up on the driver and my spin numbers with anything to stout/low launching are very low normally, average ss about 108 ish. we both play of single digits and are reasonable ball strikers.We both have fairly aging drivers, he a J33 bridgestone with VS proto stiff and i play a TM SF1 TP 10.5 with ozik HD6 stiff.


When we were handed the driver at 9.5 with a stiff 73 diamana white. I joked that i may need to try a regular or maybe even a senior as anything that I have tried with that shaft before has been a disaster, normally too much shaft for me and I hit worm burning blocks. With my swing type I thought that I would be more of a fit for a D2 also. With the D3 head I expected a comedy show from me but thought that my brother may like it and we were testing for him more than me. I have recently had to put an nvs in my sonartec 3 wood and a ilima (red) in my adams gold hybrid to help me get my low ball flight up. I hit it consistently very low with a draw and my "type" of driver head that I am suited to is usually a square faced (or slightly open) and not super low spin.

Had a shock when I snap hooked the first 3, then hit 2 or 3 massively spinny, weak flighted balloon balls. Took out a few practice balls to see how it felt with a proper ball and it was much the same. Hit 30 balls with it in total and it was consistently inconsistent, 15 snap hooks, 15 flares! What a shame as I love the way it set up address and felt great when I waggled it.

Without negative comment etc, I handed it to my brother and he hit moonball after moonball with the occasional snap hook thrown in. I suggested that the shaft doesn't feel tight at all and suggested that maybe this is not a decent spec diamana (having not done any research as i am not in the market for a driver at the moment and if I were it wouldn't be one that i would expect would work for me). He took it back into the shop and repeated my (and his) thoughts but was assured that this was in fact a proper "real" shaft.

Maybe it was just us as others seem to like it. I have never been so surprised at the outcome of testing a club. Big disappointment, really wanted to like it. Maybe the head would be great with a different shaft, if I get the chance to test again I will.

I have tested the whiteboard in a supertri, an old 580XD, bridgestone J33, Callaway Razr, all sorts over the years. Always the same "too much shaft for you" flight. i have tested the blueboard in certain lower spin heads and I haven't produced enough spin. Really shocked, not that I hit it poorly ( I expected it) but how I hit it badly.

Don't flame me, just my 2p worth. I'm sure it will work for plenty but doubt that I will ever be one.

[chiguy]

Great review. Also really good to see you followed up on responding to other posts on this thread. Too many people post and never come back. Thanks for a great thread.

[mosesgolf]

I currently have the the Anser 9.5 w/ an Ahina 70 x and also have the 913D3 w/ Tour AD DI stiff in a 10.5. The 913 is sooooo straight but it's the wrong loft for me. Even with the incorrect loft, it's not that far behind in distance from the Anser and a SF TP 2.0 LCG that are my gamers. I can't wait to try the 8.5 or 9.5 in the 913D3. I've always hit a bunch of snap hooks with the previous 910D3 models regardless of which shaft I tried. For some reason the 913 doesn't have any snap hook tendencies. I can verify the fact that the Anser is an extremely low spinning head. I need to get a Tour AD DI matched up w/ the Anser and we may have a real winner. It launches a tad lower than I would like.

[station2station]

[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1351776889' post='5876967']
I've always hit a bunch of snap hooks with the previous 910D3 models regardless of which shaft I tried.
[/quote]

Interesting - I had this issue too - especially higher incidents with 60g rip.

[tmax77]

[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1351776889' post='5876967']
I currently have the the Anser 9.5 w/ an Ahina 70 x and also have the 913D3 w/ Tour AD DI stiff in a 10.5. The 913 is sooooo straight but it's the wrong loft for me. Even with the incorrect loft, it's not that far behind in distance from the Anser and a SF TP 2.0 LCG that are my gamers. I can't wait to try the 8.5 or 9.5 in the 913D3. I've always hit a bunch of snap hooks with the previous 910D3 models regardless of which shaft I tried. For some reason the 913 doesn't have any snap hook tendencies. I can verify the fact that the Anser is an extremely low spinning head. I need to get a Tour AD DI matched up w/ the Anser and we may have a real winner. It launches a tad lower than I would like.
[/quote]

As I said not a whole lot of experience with the previous model of 910D3 other than the multiple ones that I fit, but 913 seems to fly a lot straighter than 910...sweetspot bigger and changed the cg.. I think you will have a winner too in the di-7 x-flex or at least a great starting point...What were your numbers with the 70 x?

[Dizz]

[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1351743569' post='5876147']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1351737762' post='5875725']
I'm just telling you that's not the case, we're discussing averages... not nitpicking one or two shots. We see efficient numbers with Anser at 12 and 2200 and we see efficient numbers with 913 at 15 and 2600. Why do you think going to D3 in 8.5 would yield anything different than 12 and 2200 to 15 and 2600... so lets say 13 and 2400... nothing was gain nor lost just trading carry for roll. Again, the only way he can be more efficient keeping ball speed constant is launching higher with less spin.

Launching at 16.5 with 2400 is going to give MORE carry with the same roll which achieves more total. Going 8.5 in D3 is again, only a trade off for carry or roll.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Decreased loft and a shallow angle of attack decreases spin and vice versa. Excessive spin is wasted energy. And I'm referring to the 3-4 shots that are between 2800 and 3600 - not the average figure. He hit 8 shots with the 913d3 and 4 (half) of them are pretty high spin. (some are damn low as well). The attack angles are not listed on these hits.

But I digress --- My question is [i]primarily[/i], why the massive differential in spin in the 913 (1674-3600 and an even distribution in between) as opposed to the Ansers tighter range? I saw the averages. You might be talking about averages. I'm not. I wish my drives on the course were averages. I'd shoot lower numbers.

[b]This is not a commentary on the quality of the reviewers swing. He is pretty damn consistent as we saw with his first trial.[/b]

I'm a potential 913 buyer!

[b][color=#b22222](edit- just saw your response above, TMax - thanks. Never any offense intended - just curious if the redesign by Titleist is a bit of a "wild horse")[/color][/b]
[/quote]

I understand I'm just telling you that the only way it will go further total is launching higher with less spin. A program is telling me that, its just not just me...lol. As with any player that is not a robot there are going to be outliers. You can see which two shots carried the furthest and finished the furthest... 15.9 with sub 2000 and 16.0 with 2451 was the most efficient ball for carry and total distance. So why we would want to see shots go below those which bring us closer to the Anser numbers is beyond me. Less carry, slightly more roll and less total. Again its going to be a trade off keeping constant ball speed. The only way going to less loft makes sense is if the player likes to see the flatter trajectory because at the end of the day its not going to be any more/less total distance in averages...

His best shots with the Titleist 913 are better AND more efficient... because of the ability to launch it at 16 degrees while keeping spin very low. FWIW, I know TMax in real life and work for the same business. I think hes pretty comfy going high and low spin so less loft makes no sense to me. I think there is definitely a better combo with the Anser for him too which I believe is in the WRX... pun intended.

[tmax77]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1351784969' post='5877605']
[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1351743569' post='5876147']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1351737762' post='5875725']
I'm just telling you that's not the case, we're discussing averages... not nitpicking one or two shots. We see efficient numbers with Anser at 12 and 2200 and we see efficient numbers with 913 at 15 and 2600. Why do you think going to D3 in 8.5 would yield anything different than 12 and 2200 to 15 and 2600... so lets say 13 and 2400... nothing was gain nor lost just trading carry for roll. Again, the only way he can be more efficient keeping ball speed constant is launching higher with less spin.

Launching at 16.5 with 2400 is going to give MORE carry with the same roll which achieves more total. Going 8.5 in D3 is again, only a trade off for carry or roll.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Decreased loft and a shallow angle of attack decreases spin and vice versa. Excessive spin is wasted energy. And I'm referring to the 3-4 shots that are between 2800 and 3600 - not the average figure. He hit 8 shots with the 913d3 and 4 (half) of them are pretty high spin. (some are damn low as well). The attack angles are not listed on these hits.

But I digress --- My question is [i]primarily[/i], why the massive differential in spin in the 913 (1674-3600 and an even distribution in between) as opposed to the Ansers tighter range? I saw the averages. You might be talking about averages. I'm not. I wish my drives on the course were averages. I'd shoot lower numbers.

[b]This is not a commentary on the quality of the reviewers swing. He is pretty damn consistent as we saw with his first trial.[/b]

I'm a potential 913 buyer!

[b][color=#b22222](edit- just saw your response above, TMax - thanks. Never any offense intended - just curious if the redesign by Titleist is a bit of a "wild horse")[/color][/b]
[/quote]

I understand I'm just telling you that the only way it will go further total is launching higher with less spin. A program is telling me that, its just not just me...lol. As with any player that is not a robot there are going to be outliers. You can see which two shots carried the furthest and finished the furthest... 15.9 with sub 2000 and 16.0 with 2451 was the most efficient ball for carry and total distance. So why we would want to see shots go below those which bring us closer to the Anser numbers is beyond me. Less carry, slightly more roll and less total. Again its going to be a trade off keeping constant ball speed. The only way going to less loft makes sense is if the player likes to see the flatter trajectory because at the end of the day its not going to be any more/less total distance in averages...

His best shots with the Titleist 913 are better AND more efficient... because of the ability to launch it at 16 degrees while keeping spin very low. FWIW, I know TMax in real life and work for the same business. I think hes pretty comfy going high and low spin so less loft makes no sense to me. I think there is definitely a better combo with the Anser for him too which I believe is in the WRX... pun intended.
[/quote]

Yes there certainly is something in the "wrx." "Thinking a DI-6 maybe in the future" The software is designed to get ideal characteristics based on all of the numbers, correct I am human I will make some bad swings I could very easily eliminate all of the outliers if I wanted to but what good would that do it would be like a mulligan on the course, not every drive is perfect and certainly the intent wasn't to say which driver is the best fit it was to show a comparison of two products...
I know that JW will probably agree with this even though it maybe hard to believe but I truly feel that a person can be correctly "fit" into any driver now that maybe a 12 degree Anser with a 70 Ahina stiff and that same person get fitted into a 9.5 RBZ with a Matrix Black Tie (IF and that is a very big IF the resources were limitless WOW wouldn't that be nice) ...point is everyone is different what works in one combo may not even come close in another combo...I have seen shafts that I love and are perfect in a set of irons, once I try to pull those shafts and put them into a similar iron head and for whatever reason they don't seem to work....Why?? because the clubs are different and the tolerances are different...not trying to insult anyone's intelligence just trying to help some fellow wrx's out.

[tmax77]

[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1351743569' post='5876147']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1351737762' post='5875725']
I'm just telling you that's not the case, we're discussing averages... not nitpicking one or two shots. We see efficient numbers with Anser at 12 and 2200 and we see efficient numbers with 913 at 15 and 2600. Why do you think going to D3 in 8.5 would yield anything different than 12 and 2200 to 15 and 2600... so lets say 13 and 2400... nothing was gain nor lost just trading carry for roll. Again, the only way he can be more efficient keeping ball speed constant is launching higher with less spin.

Launching at 16.5 with 2400 is going to give MORE carry with the same roll which achieves more total. Going 8.5 in D3 is again, only a trade off for carry or roll.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Decreased loft and a shallow angle of attack decreases spin and vice versa. Excessive spin is wasted energy. And I'm referring to the 3-4 shots that are between 2800 and 3600 - not the average figure. He hit 8 shots with the 913d3 and 4 (half) of them are pretty high spin. (some are damn low as well). The attack angles are not listed on these hits.

But I digress --- My question is [i]primarily[/i], why the massive differential in spin in the 913 (1674-3600 and an even distribution in between) as opposed to the Ansers tighter range? I saw the averages. You might be talking about averages. I'm not. I wish my drives on the course were averages. I'd shoot lower numbers.

[b]This is not a commentary on the quality of the reviewers swing. He is pretty damn consistent as we saw with his first trial.[/b]

I'm a potential 913 buyer!

[b][color=#b22222](edit- just saw your response above, TMax - thanks. Never any offense intended - just curious if the redesign by Titleist is a bit of a "wild horse")[/color][/b]
[/quote]

Certainly no offense taken...I know you are just providing your insight...Nah I doubt that the Titleist is a wild horse by any means just a "rusty wild indian" swinging the stick...lol

[GooseHook]

[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351704274' post='5873009']
great review!

it appears you launch the anser lower than the 913... what are your thoughts - change out the anser head to 10.5(then to the minus setting) - and launch would go up?
[/quote]

A friend of mine had a similar case when he got his Anser. 9.5 is his "normal" driver loft, but his first couple rounds with it he was hitting the ball really low and losing distance (not to mention it was also wet out). Switched to a 10.5 and it was dead perfect.

[tmax77]

[attachment=1405145:photo (28).JPG][attachment=1405147:D22.JPG]

Here is a fitting I did today for a fellow Golf Professional his driver is a 910 d3 with Kai'li 65 stiff, we choose a 913 D2 8.5 with a Phenom 60 stiff gave him the best carry and roll..

[rymail00]

great review. I am thinking about a 9.5 d2 with d+ 62 stiff.

[tmax77]

[quote name='tmax77' timestamp='1351794511' post='5878349']
[attachment=1405145:photo (28).JPG][attachment=1405147:D22.JPG]

Here is a fitting I did today for a fellow Golf Professional his driver is a 910 d3 with Kai'li 65 stiff, we choose a 913 D2 8.5 with a Phenom 60 stiff gave him the best carry and roll..
[/quote]

By the way it was a 35 degree day here in chilly ohio....ball isn't going to carry as far

[tmax77]

[quote name='GooseHook' timestamp='1351788102' post='5877829']
[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351704274' post='5873009']
great review!

it appears you launch the anser lower than the 913... what are your thoughts - change out the anser head to 10.5(then to the minus setting) - and launch would go up?
[/quote]

A friend of mine had a similar case when he got his Anser. 9.5 is his "normal" driver loft, but his first couple rounds with it he was hitting the ball really low and losing distance (not to mention it was also wet out). Switched to a 10.5 and it was dead perfect.
[/quote][quote name='GooseHook' timestamp='1351788102' post='5877829']
[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351704274' post='5873009']
great review!

it appears you launch the anser lower than the 913... what are your thoughts - change out the anser head to 10.5(then to the minus setting) - and launch would go up?
[/quote]

A friend of mine had a similar case when he got his Anser. 9.5 is his "normal" driver loft, but his first couple rounds with it he was hitting the ball really low and losing distance (not to mention it was also wet out). Switched to a 10.5 and it was dead perfect.
[/quote]

I want to play the Anser...just need to get it dialed in...driver wasn't bad considering the rep and I were completely guess on launch conditions and trying a new shaft that neither one of us had tried before....this session was the first chance I got to hit the driver...busy fitting others for clubs instead of myself...

[floycota]

Great review, the Anser is that low launching and spinning from what I've seen. It fits me better than the 910. I'll have to give the 913 a shot (haven't had a chance to give it a fair test yet). Judging off your numbers I think I'm going to run into some problems with spin with the 913. Every driver doesn't fit every swing that's why there are so many out there to try. Thanks again.

[tmax77]

No I think if you really want a Titleist head I am sure you can find a shaft that will kill spin...what shafts have you used?

[Richl19]

Any thoughts on why his angle of attack changed 1 degree between clubs and the affect that might of had on the launch and spin numbers?

[JR Van]

I love how it's always the head or the shaft with spin problems, more often then not its your swing with the spin problems.try swapping that out first.

[Richl19]

it was during the same session so I would think both clubs would have had the same AOA average just curious why the difference of 1degree, diferent length shafts perhaps? was he teeing it up a bit higher when he switched clubs? Based on this all things equal would you guys say the anser is lower spin then 913D3?

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='JR Van' timestamp='1351810544' post='5879615']
I love how it's always the head or the shaft with spin problems, more often then not its your swing with the spin problems.try swapping that out first.
[/quote]


Yeah one size fits all, right?

[floycota]

[quote name='tmax77' timestamp='1351809672' post='5879563']
No I think if you really want a Titleist head I am sure you can find a shaft that will kill spin...what shafts have you used?
[/quote]
In the 910, Kiyoshi (Purple and Black), Nunchuk, pretty much all the MRC, a few GDI, no Matrix stuff though.

[floycota]

[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1351812178' post='5879727']
[quote name='JR Van' timestamp='1351810544' post='5879615']
I love how it's always the head or the shaft with spin problems, more often then not its your swing with the spin problems.try swapping that out first.
[/quote]


Yeah one size fits all, right?
[/quote]
Of course, because we all know that the K15, Super Deep, LS12, and 913 are essentially the same head. The spin and launch on all these heads is pretty much identical.

[Hstead]

It is interesting that the D+ 72g launched higher than the S+ 60. I thought the D+ was supposed to be lower launching and spinning than the S+? Also, it is interesting to see that the swing speed didn't really change with the heavier shaft either.

[tmax77]

[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1351812754' post='5879757']
[quote name='tmax77' timestamp='1351809672' post='5879563']
No I think if you really want a Titleist head I am sure you can find a shaft that will kill spin...what shafts have you used?
[/quote]
In the 910, Kiyoshi (Purple and Black), Nunchuk, pretty much all the MRC, a few GDI, no Matrix stuff though.
[/quote]

What are your numbers? Where they stiff shafts? X-stiff? Tipped?

Sometimes it is just a swing thing you may not be able to get optimal numbers but can still get really good numbers..

[tmax77]

[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1351813026' post='5879775']
[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1351812178' post='5879727']
[quote name='JR Van' timestamp='1351810544' post='5879615']
I love how it's always the head or the shaft with spin problems, more often then not its your swing with the spin problems.try swapping that out first.
[/quote]


Yeah one size fits all, right?
[/quote]
Of course, because we all know that the K15, Super Deep, LS12, and 913 are essentially the same head. The spin and launch on all these heads is pretty much identical.
[/quote]

That would be a pretty cool trick....lol

[tmax77]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1351815102' post='5879927']
It is interesting that the D+ 72g launched higher than the S+ 60. I thought the D+ was supposed to be lower launching and spinning than the S+? Also, it is interesting to see that the swing speed didn't really change with the heavier shaft either.
[/quote]

Remember there are no absolutes in fitting and everyone is different....I have hit high launching, light shafts low and heavy, low launching shafts high....that it why it is so important to get fitted other wise you are playing Russian roulette..
Going through the fitting he thought/felt the phenom 70 felt the lightest and most flexible even though that is not the case...

[tmax77]

[quote name='Richl19' timestamp='1351811462' post='5879681']
it was during the same session so I would think both clubs would have had the same AOA average just curious why the difference of 1degree, diferent length shafts perhaps? was he teeing it up a bit higher when he switched clubs? Based on this all things equal would you guys say the anser is lower spin then 913D3?
[/quote]

Didn't change tee height, shafts were slightly different Anser being 1/4 longer..all things being equal by iron Byron standards yes Anser should be lower spin...

[Richl19]

interesting to bad they don't make an Anser in 7.5 as well

[GooseHook]

The Anser is indeed very low spin. I demoed one today with the 'ahina, and recorded 3 shots under 2000 rpm. This was at a 12 degree launch!

[Richl19]

have you demoed a 913?