Newtown CT shooting

[cdnglf]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1355597218' post='6073325']
If there was a way to get rid of every single gun in the US and to prevent them from being smuggled, I would be for it (and I am pro gun). The problem is that the wrong people already have guns. That is why they are immediately available to other wrong people. I live in Chicago and before the recent supreme court change ruling against, we had the strictest gun law in the country, but guess what? Our murder rate was the highest. Those are facts. My point is that "gun control" prevents honest people from protecting themselves moreso than it prevents a tragety.
[/quote]

The "wild west" argument... because somebody might be armed, everybody should be armed.
Does this make people safer?

Murders with Firearms (most recent) by country
United States: 9369
Canada: 144

The US has roughly 10x the population of Canada, thus about 6.5x as many firearm murders per capita as Canada.

Now, sometimes you'll see an argument like "guns don't kill people, people kill people" or "if he didn't have a gun, a murderer would use a knife or a baseball bat". So...

Murders per 100,000 people (most recent) by country
United States: 5.9
Canada: 2

So, a greater percentage of Canadian murders do not involve firearms. But overall, Canada still has a murder rate three times lower than the US.

Canada is arguably the most directly comparable country to the US (culture, geography, wealth, etc), but you'll see the same general pattern when you compare the US to Western Europe, Japan, Australia, etc: vastly higher firearm homicide rates, and smaller (but still dramatically larger) overall homicide rates. Most of these countries haven't banned guns, but they do seem to have more restrictive (and sensible) regulations than the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_per_100_peo-murders-per-100-000-people

[Boogs2]

I know everyone wants to weigh in on what can deter or fix the problem with gun control. How it should or shouldnt be. Again, like most said, its not the time or place. Let's honor the memory of the fallen little angels and the adults who did what they could to protect the children and lost their lives.

I have now refused to watch any news channel or any type of media that makes this case about the killer. He is glorified and made more famous every time we watch tv and its about him. The media should be focusing on those that were tragically killed and honor their memory. Everything on should be done on their memory, not the glorification of the killer. Everytime info is focused on about the killer, the next deranged person is plotting, wondering how many it will take to "one up" this tragedy. Unfortunately, this wont be the last mass shooting, because one will imitate/copy this shooting, so that they can reach the path to being infamous by topping this tragedy.

RIP to the little angels and their protectors, and thoughts and prayers to their families and those affected. I dont have children of my own, but I do have nieces and nephews and the thought of them even being in this situation is too much for me to hold it in.

[OrangeCrush]

For all you people on your band wagon about needing to either ban guns or create even HARDER gun laws. Were you writing to President Clinton asking for a ban on Ryder Trucks after the OKC bombing? 168 people died (19 were children) and 680 people hurt. How about President Bush demanding a ban on box cutters after 9/11?

What do OKC and 9/11 have in common? EVIL, DEMENTED MEN with an agenda who used whatever they could get their hands on to cause destruction! Firearms have this "stigma". So for every 50 million LEGAL gun owners doing NOTHING illegal, 1 crack job STEALS guns from a LEGALLY purchased gun owner and now the other 50 million+ have to suffer?

Knee jerk reactions do NOTHING but hurt the people doing nothing wrong.

[tarheel12]

I hate these arguments about making box cutters, Ryder trucks or cars illegal. All of those things serve a purpose to society other than killing. You could kill someone with dental floss if you wanted to. I don't see your point. The difference from all these things and assault weapons is that assault weapons have no purpose other than to kill many people in a short amount of time. NONE of the statistics are on your side. We have gun violence in this country on the order of multiples of other civilized nations. Nobody is saying that you can't have guns. I have no problem with a hunting rifle or a revolver for self defense. But what purpose does someone have with a semi automatic rifle. Who are they defending their homes against, the Viet cong?

The second amendment was written at a time when single shot barrel loaded muskets were the state of the art technology. If you want a closet full of those be my guest. The constitution also prohibited women and African Americans from voting. I think we can all agree that it's not an infallible document.

Lets take the assault rifles out of people's hands. Lets get rid of semi-automatic rifles and high capacity clips. They are not needed for hunting or self defense. Lets get rid of the gun show loophole. I don't see how these things don't make sense to everyone.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1355600446' post='6073499']
ej002,
I don't think anyone can try to pretend that the Bad Guys will always find ways to be armed. That's obvious. But if the only possible reaction to that is to make equally as lethal arms available to everyone, you get what we're dealing with today. The status quo. A race to the bottom. Readily available high-capacity weapons to nearly anyone who goes off the deep end. These are not calculating masterminds who have to comb the black market for a weapon. They're scared cowards who only have to look as far as their mom or neighbor to take it from.

If I were to have a gun in my home today (which I won't as it's be shown to correlate to a nearly threefold increase in the odds of someone in my home dying from homicide) I don't understand why I need the right to have some 30 round lead machine. A shotgun or handgun with a reasonable clip should do the job in proficient hands.

To go to the far extreme, can anyone argue that we'd wouldn't have fewer tragic events if the only weapons available were flintlock rifles? Then to bring it back toward reality, isn't there somewhere ... some middle ground ... where we could attempt to limit the efficiency of killing when someone goes off their rocker?

Hunters aren't legally allowed more than a handful of rounds, but hunting is still fun (pheasant fan, myself). Home intruders rarely work in packs of 30. For the real-life situations that many people and sportsmen safely enjoy guns, I can't imagine the a strict cap on high-capacity weapons/clips would be much of a hindrance. And yes ... the cartel will always have big bad clips. But what are the real odds of having to have an OK Corral shootout with the cartel vs the real numbers of innocent people being caught in these high volume attacks (Va Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, etc.

I have no idea if this would work. It's just something that seems to me to be a start. Limit the damage of crazy nuts, and barely hinder the responsible folk.

I doubt it's that easy, and that makes me sad. But it's "something". And "nothing" is continuing to shock and sadden and anger us all with a frightening increase in frequency. As a dad of two grade school kids, I hope I never have to experience another week like this past one that ripped my guts out (Clackamas is a handful of miles from me). But I'm sure I will fairly soon.
[/quote]

Excellent post. Its not as simple as lets ban guns that libs throw out. Banning high capacity guns, creating longer wait periods when purchasing guns, requiring first purchase to include mandatory training and safety course. You can be pro gun control and pro gun.

[MadGolfer76]

If you will pardon my incredulity, you all don't care about what just happened enough if you keep trying to defend your personal politics vs. offering human sentiment. To be honest, I was a bit guilty of it in my earlier post as well, and shame on me. Why not focus comments on the dead children and teachers right now, and save agenda for a different time?

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1355623769' post='6074815']
If you will pardon my incredulity, you all don't care about what just happened enough if you keep trying to defend your personal politics vs. offering human sentiment. To be honest, I was a bit guilty of it in my earlier post as well, and shame on me. Why not focus comments on the dead children and teachers right now, and save agenda for a different time?
[/quote]


+1. This is the saddest crime in my lifetime.

[profsmitty]

To all GolfWRX members:

This is a time that people of goodwill are morning the loss of a score or more innocents. There will be time and place after all of our precious children and the women who tried to protect them are laid to rest for political and legal discussions and recriminations. This, however, is not yet that time nor that place.

Let's take a few days for sharing our sympathy for those who have lost so much. Let's postpone any temptation to use this tragedy to make a political point until a better day. Now, even the most cynical and jaded among us will surely understand that the GolfWRX's forums will not be used to sully the solemnity of this terrible time in our national life.