Can someone explain the Hogan obsession?

[Dave D]

NOTE: i know this is going to annoy a lot of people im just looking for an explanation of why.

 

Can someone explain to me why many have such an unbelievable obsession with trying to figure out Hogans secret or copy hogans swing.

 

It took hogan countless of hours per day every day for years to 'perfect' his golf swing, now how do people expect to copy this with no where near as much time let a lone talent?

 

Hogans ballstriking was exemplory for 2 years or so pre accident? Boo Weekley has now topped the ball striking stats 2 years running now on the pga tour with modern equipment, modern courses and modern conditions, should we all be trying to copy his move? if he could remotely putt im sure he wouldve won much more than he has, with those ball striking stats its unreal that he hasnt.

 

Now im not saying Boo is better than Ben, im just trying to understand the fascination with a golf swing that most of us have only even seen on video on youtube, how many of the top players in the world now swing like hogan, mahan? garcia? dufner? and countless that dont. theres more than one way to get the job done, why not focus on basic things like turning the shoulders 90 degrees to the spine and making things easy than countless manipulations at positions that took one of the most talented golfers ever thousands of hours to ingrain?

[verderraul]

My .02

Because the world loves heroes....not pornstar bangin, alligator huntin clowns.

I think Hogans life story made his golf swing even more appealing.

"Watching" his dad commit suicide, going broke playing golf, the life threatening accident in which his jumps over his wife to protect her.

Ben Hogan is a stud.

[MadGolfer76]

Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.

[bmellisen]

Because he had a "secret". Everyone always wants in on a secret.
Because people who are into golf are always told they have to read 5 Lessons, that its a must for golf swing enthusiasts.
Because its more fun to try to extrapolate from grainy video footage and drawings, then know from high speed video, trackman, and whatever that graph is that Teeace is posting.
Because you are on golfwrx, which has a higher proportion of hoganites than most.

[Dave D]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1357313147' post='6166739']
Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.
[/quote]
yeah dont get me wrong what what he struggled through in his life is inspiring i just dont get the golf side of it, surely if its just because people think he was the best then we should copy jack and tiger as they have won the most?

[duffer987]

[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357313433' post='6166781']
[b]Because you are on golfwrx[/b], which has a higher proportion of hoganites than most.
[/quote]

That is it in a nutshell. Every thread asking why this, that, the other should default to that answer.
This is a forum for golf anoraks.
Hogan's swing, Muira irons, lowest spin drivers, OEM stables, club "ho'ing"... these are some of the things golf nerds will be interested in. Nothing wrong with it and really shouldn't require explanations

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1357314392' post='6166885']

[b]Because you are on golfwrx[/b], which has a higher proportion of hoganites than most.


[/quote]

Yeah, you're totally right. Only people on golfwrx think Hogan had a good swing. It's such a fad. I mean look at those mechanics - what a bunch of hogwash. And all this stuff about him being "the best ballstriker of all time" - really what a joke. And to think the guy never even took a lesson - well of course not! Just look at that sloppy homemade action. Dig it out of the dirt? More like dig it out of the dumpster. Only a true Hoganite would stand up for that garbage.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1357313147' post='6166739']
Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.
[/quote]

If you're irritated then maybe you shouldn't visit his forum?

[bmellisen]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357316169' post='6167063']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1357313147' post='6166739']
Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.
[/quote]

If you're irritated then maybe you shouldn't visit his forum?
[/quote]

Just for clarification, this was not posted originally in hogans heroes, just in regular instruction forum. So when mad golfer posted he wasn't frequenting hogans heroes. Also, it's doesn't say anywhere on hogans heroes that you have to always say only nice and wonderful things about Ben hogan.

[tembolo1284]

While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1357313900' post='6166823']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1357313147' post='6166739']
Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.
[/quote]
yeah dont get me wrong what what he struggled through in his life is inspiring i just dont get the golf side of it, surely if its just because people think he was the best then we should copy jack and tiger as they have won the most?
[/quote]

Tiger and Jack never had to make swing changes to become great (after they were both in their late teens). I doubt anyone on here can relate to people who won US Ams 17. Not saying you can relate to Hogan either, but it's all relative.


Most people on here suck. Sucky swings and sucky golfers. It's understandable for these suckers to be interested in one of the rare pros who also sucked initially.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357316410' post='6167081']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357316169' post='6167063']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1357313147' post='6166739']
Because he struggled like the rest of us and found a way out of it through hard work.

The current state of analysis is definitely a bit over the top though, and more than a little irritating. I think there are way too many people trying to be experts about his swing. I mean, the best two golfers we have ever had were an arm-raiser and forearm roller.

The way they talk about positions, you would think people had elbow fetishes.
[/quote]

If you're irritated then maybe you shouldn't visit his forum?
[/quote]

Just for clarification, this was not posted originally in hogans heroes, just in regular instruction forum. So when mad golfer posted he wasn't frequenting hogans heroes. Also, it's doesn't say anywhere on hogans heroes that you have to always say only nice and wonderful things about Ben hogan.
[/quote]

No one said anything about that so I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

Exactly

[bmellisen]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

First, I will state again this wasn't originally posted in this subforum(and fwiw I don't think it should be in here because this subforum is frequented by people who are passionate about hogan, and I feel this wont end well in here).

And I don't think mad golfer was saying negative things about hogan or acting like a toad(don't even know what that means) and I wasn't trying to act like a toad in anything I posted. But the first response to a post by someone who posts in here frequently was essentially don't come into this subforum. I just don't agree with that. But treat me like a porker, I don't really care. But I also don't know what that means.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357317031' post='6167139']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

First, I will state again this wasn't originally posted in this subforum(and fwiw I don't think it should be in here because this subforum is frequented by people who are passionate about hogan, and I feel this wont end well in here).

And I don't think mad golfer was saying negative things about hogan or acting like a toad(don't even know what that means) and I wasn't trying to act like a toad in anything I posted. But the first response to a post by someone who posts in here frequently was essentially don't come into this subforum. I just don't agree with that. But treat me like a porker, I don't really care. But I also don't know what that means.
[/quote]

lol easy buddy. I'm pretty sure both of us were directing that at madgolfer, who said he was irritated by the hoganites and who basically knocked what all of us enjoying doing. So my response is ignore us, polite way of saying f*** off.

You should understand this is similar to atheists protesting in front of a church

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357317031' post='6167139']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

First, I will state again this wasn't originally posted in this subforum(and fwiw I don't think it should be in here because this subforum is frequented by people who are passionate about hogan, and I feel this wont end well in here).

And I don't think mad golfer was saying negative things about hogan or acting like a toad(don't even know what that means) and I wasn't trying to act like a toad in anything I posted. But the first response to a post by someone who posts in here frequently was essentially don't come into this subforum. I just don't agree with that. But treat me like a porker, I don't really care. But I also don't know what that means.
[/quote]

I'm not saying you or madgolfer are being toads...and i'll only treat you like a porker if you ask nicely. Problem is you don't know what either really means...so might get awkward.

It's been since moved into this forum because one of the mods probably thought it's where it belongs. So don't know what to tell ya.

If it was originally posted in just the instruction forum lots of people wouldn't have understood it because they are more interested in whatever swing theory they are into...so I guess it makes sense it's put into this forum...because that's where the Hogan obsession is.

Re-read your post...since you don't really care to be treated like a porker...I sadly can't give you the pleasure.

[dairic]

...because it's fun,

Most people who come here aren't simply concerned about improving their golf game, but also with the intellectual exercise of figuring stuff out. If you can't understand the appeal then nobody could explain it to you. You don't need to spend time on these forums to learn how to make a better shoulder turn...you can more effectively get that done at the range with a pro.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357317356' post='6167177']
[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357317031' post='6167139']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

First, I will state again this wasn't originally posted in this subforum(and fwiw I don't think it should be in here because this subforum is frequented by people who are passionate about hogan, and I feel this wont end well in here).

And I don't think mad golfer was saying negative things about hogan or acting like a toad(don't even know what that means) and I wasn't trying to act like a toad in anything I posted. But the first response to a post by someone who posts in here frequently was essentially don't come into this subforum. I just don't agree with that. But treat me like a porker, I don't really care. But I also don't know what that means.
[/quote]

lol easy buddy. I'm pretty sure both of us were directing that at madgolfer, who said he was irritated by the hoganites and who basically knocked what all of us enjoying doing. So my response is ignore us, polite way of saying f*** off.

You should understand this is similar to atheists protesting in front of a church
[/quote]

It's like going to a stack and tilt seminar when you are a ballard rocker swinger and arguing, "Why you guys like to do that?"

stack and tilt guys will headbutt you when making their backswings telling you to get out of here!

[duffer987]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1357315941' post='6167041']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1357314392' post='6166885']
[b]Because you are on golfwrx[/b], which has a higher proportion of hoganites than most.


[/quote]

Yeah, you're totally right. Only people on golfwrx think Hogan had a good swing. It's such a fad. I mean look at those mechanics - what a bunch of hogwash. And all this stuff about him being "the best ballstriker of all time" - really what a joke. And to think the guy never even took a lesson - well of course not! Just look at that sloppy homemade action. Dig it out of the dirt? More like dig it out of the dumpster. Only a true Hoganite would stand up for that garbage.
[/quote]

Meow.
I was trying to point out that getting a wider, objective perspective on all things golf, isn't the easiest thing to do on golfwrx - regardless of the topic.
Think you've highlighted that point in spades. Thanks

[bmellisen]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357317356' post='6167177']
[quote name='bmellisen' timestamp='1357317031' post='6167139']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]

First, I will state again this wasn't originally posted in this subforum(and fwiw I don't think it should be in here because this subforum is frequented by people who are passionate about hogan, and I feel this wont end well in here).

And I don't think mad golfer was saying negative things about hogan or acting like a toad(don't even know what that means) and I wasn't trying to act like a toad in anything I posted. But the first response to a post by someone who posts in here frequently was essentially don't come into this subforum. I just don't agree with that. But treat me like a porker, I don't really care. But I also don't know what that means.
[/quote]

lol easy buddy. I'm pretty sure both of us were directing that at madgolfer, who said he was irritated by the hoganites and who basically knocked what all of us enjoying doing. So my response is ignore us, polite way of saying f*** off.

You should understand this is similar to atheists protesting in front of a church
[/quote]

It's more like atheists protesting in front of a courthouse, moderators coming in and picking up the protestors, and busing them over to in front of a church.

I enjoy reading the hogan stuff, even though I don't know all that much about him. I feel this topic could bring about good discussion, but could also end up in a fight between members that gets locked in like 2 hours. Just didn't want that happen, because like I said I learn a lot of stuff in here.

[Dave D]

so with all these posts and topics has anyone worked it out and achieved ball striking similar to hogans?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1357317962' post='6167261']
so with all these posts and topics has anyone worked it out and achieved ball striking similar to hogans?
[/quote]

ben hogan swing project is his clone...except has a bit more of a tan and larger jugs. He refuses to show me his ball flight though.

[HappyGolf]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1357311590' post='6166599']
Boo Weekley has now topped the ball striking stats 2 years running now on the pga tour with [b]modern[/b] equipment...
[/quote]

Someone please make sure Tembolo reads this part... and takes note

[jmck]

Another way to look at it is Hogan was unusually obsessed with the golf swing. He wrote incredibly detailed, technical books about it. The books his peers wrote more more along the lines of "go out and have fun and try to manage your way around and avoid the hazards." So it follows that folks who are going to get a little obsessed with the golf swing are going to be drawn to all things Hogan.

Boo Weekley might be a heck of a ball striker, but he's obviously not obsessed with the technical minutia of a golf swing.

[ej002]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1357320326' post='6167497']
Another way to look at it is Hogan was unusually obsessed with the golf swing. He wrote incredibly detailed, technical books about it. The books his peers wrote more more along the lines of "go out and have fun and try to manage your way around and avoid the hazards." So it follows that folks who are going to get a little obsessed with the golf swing are going to be drawn to all things Hogan.

Boo Weekley might be a heck of a ball striker, but he's obviously not obsessed with the technical minutia of a golf swing.
[/quote]

Pretty much right on the money. I can promise you if Mac ever published his MORAD stuff, there would be a massive obsession about that also. There already massive obsessions over The Golfing Machine, to the point that they have numerous forums over many websites, different organizations and associationss and sub-sects etc. And Homer was not a golfer who changed his swing over night and became revered by his rivals as the best ballstriker to walk to Earth.

[MelloYello]

1.) He had a wonderful swing that involved a beautiful rhythm and tempo that was nearly hypnotic.

2.) He looked like men want to look.

3.) He openly acknowledged his background and the adversities he faced, which were endearing.

4.) He was one of the first players to ever really study the technical side of the swing.

5.) He existed in an era where golfers like he, Snead and later Palmer had immense sex appeal and masculinity.

6.) He seemed to reach enlightenment on his own which has always been part of the "Hero's Journey."




In the end, Ben Hogan is in many ways a prototypical "hero." He faced adversity which came from the external as well as the internal. He reached the top of the mountain. He chose to teach others and to help the game once he got there. And he looked really good in the process.

He mixed Jesus with James Bond.

[hoganfan924]

The abbreviated version is simply this:

He turned himself from a struggling journeyman into one of the greatest of all time and according to many, the greatest ballstriker of all time.

The long version:

He failed on tour 2 or 3 times and struggled for 9 years before finally winning an individual event. He didn't win a major until he was in his mid 30's. But then he went on to win 63 times with 9 majors.

Imagine the corollary in today's terms. Pick any golfer today in his late 20's or early 30's that's only won a few tournaments to date and hasn't won a major. I'll pick one as an example - Brandt Snedeker. Imagine this is all happening today and into the near future:

Just as Brandt's becoming successful and winning regularly, he quits the tour and joins the Army for 3 years. Imagine that Brandt is now just getting back on tour after his 3 year hiatus and he wins a major in 2013. Now imagine that in the next 4 years Snedeker wins 45 tournaments including 3 majors. All after making some big swing changes. All of a sudden he takes a leap in ballstriking stats. He says "I have a secret." He's not working with an instructor but has done it on his own mostly. His peers say he's the best ballstriker they've ever seen and probably of all time Then he almost dies in a car accident that crushes his pelvis, legs, shoulders and damages his eyesight. Doctors say he may never walk again let alone play golf. But in only 1 year he makes a miraculous comeback, plays a very limited schedule and manages to win 6 more majors in the following 3 years. He then goes on to write what will become the best selling golf instruction book of all time.

Wouldn't you want to know how he did that? Wouldn't you and millions of other golfers be completely fascinated about how it was done, what changes were made and what his secret is?

Just because Hogan did it 60+ years ago doesn't make it any less relevant or intriguing than if someone were doing it today. It's only our perspective that has changed because we weren't direct witness to it.

[John Kreese]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357322278' post='6167669']
The abbreviated version is simply this:

He turned himself from a struggling journeyman into one of the greatest of all time and according to many, the greatest ballstriker of all time.

The long version:

He failed on tour 2 or 3 times and struggled for 9 years before finally winning an individual event. He didn't win a major until he was in his mid 30's. But then he went on to win 63 times with 9 majors.

Imagine the corollary in today's terms. Pick any golfer today in his late 20's or early 30's that's only won a few tournaments to date and hasn't won a major. I'll pick one as an example - Brandt Snedeker. Imagine this is all happening today and into the near future:

Just as Brandt's becoming successful and winning regularly, he quits the tour and joins the Army for 3 years. Imagine that Brandt is now just getting back on tour after his 3 year hiatus and he wins a major in 2013. Now imagine that in the next 4 years Snedeker wins 45 tournaments including 3 majors. All after making some big swing changes. All of a sudden he takes a leap in ballstriking stats. He says "I have a secret." He's not working with an instructor but has done it on his own mostly. His peers say he's the best ballstriker they've ever seen and probably of all time Then he almost dies in a car accident that crushes his pelvis, legs, shoulders and damages his eyesight. Doctors say he may never walk again let alone play golf. But in only 1 year he makes a miraculous comeback, plays a very limited schedule and manages to win 6 more majors in the following 3 years. He then goes on to write what will become the best selling golf instruction book of all time.

Wouldn't you want to know how he did that? Wouldn't you and millions of other golfers be completely fascinated about how it was done, what changes were made and what his secret is?

Just because Hogan did it 60+ years ago doesn't make it any less relevant or intriguing than if someone were doing it today. It's only our perspective that has changed because we weren't direct witness to it.
[/quote]

Nice summary!

[nbg352]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357316569' post='6167095']
While you don't have to say always positive things about hogan in hogan's heroes...it makes most sense that you go in there because you have an interest in him...and I mean interest in a positive way. If you go in there just to talk about him in a negative way when people are in there trying to learn from the man or just marvelling at his abilty and you are there acting like a toad...then expect to be treated like a porker.

Fair ain't it?
[/quote]
What? This is supposed to be some kind of shrine? To a golfer? Give us a break! This is a forum, not the church of hogan.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357322278' post='6167669']
The abbreviated version is simply this:

He turned himself from a struggling journeyman into one of the greatest of all time and according to many, the greatest ballstriker of all time.

The long version:

He failed on tour 2 or 3 times and struggled for 9 years before finally winning an individual event. He didn't win a major until he was in his mid 30's. But then he went on to win 63 times with 9 majors.

Imagine the corollary in today's terms. Pick any golfer today in his late 20's or early 30's that's only won a few tournaments to date and hasn't won a major. I'll pick one as an example - Brandt Snedeker. Imagine this is all happening today and into the near future:

Just as Brandt's becoming successful and winning regularly, he quits the tour and joins the Army for 3 years. Imagine that Brandt is now just getting back on tour after his 3 year hiatus and he wins a major in 2013. Now imagine that in the next 4 years Snedeker wins 45 tournaments including 3 majors. All after making some big swing changes. All of a sudden he takes a leap in ballstriking stats. He says "I have a secret." He's not working with an instructor but has done it on his own mostly. His peers say he's the best ballstriker they've ever seen and probably of all time Then he almost dies in a car accident that crushes his pelvis, legs, shoulders and damages his eyesight. Doctors say he may never walk again let alone play golf. But in only 1 year he makes a miraculous comeback, plays a very limited schedule and manages to win 6 more majors in the following 3 years. He then goes on to write what will become the best selling golf instruction book of all time.

Wouldn't you want to know how he did that? Wouldn't you and millions of other golfers be completely fascinated about how it was done, what changes were made and what his secret is?

Just because Hogan did it 60+ years ago doesn't make it any less relevant or intriguing than if someone were doing it today. It's only our perspective that has changed because we weren't direct witness to it.
[/quote]


The story is great, but I don't think it actually has much to do with why people are so fascinated by Ben Hogan.

I remember the first time I saw a video of Hogan. I just saw something there. Some magic. I was unable to take my eyes off it. I couldn't tell you what it was but before ever knowing about the accident or his time off during the war (which was more or less true of everyone at the time) or his father or his relationship with other players, I wanted to keep watching this guy.

That's the reason people like Hogan I think. The swing was just so beautiful that you could watch it for hours and fall into a trance. Plus, as I said above, he existed in a time when men's golf had a sex appeal it doesn't now. Golf in the 50s produced some figures that simply had more charisma than anything we've seen since.

I think the details of Ben Hogan's story help to sustain his legend but I don't think they are the root cause. Even the immense success Hogan had throughout his career was, to me, more of a justification for those who study him rather than a cause. People don't automatically chase the most successful thing or cling to a heroic story for this long.

Whatever makes Hogan such a mythic figure--I think--is something you experience the very first time you see him. Whatever that magic is, that's what makes a myth sustainable.