The Wide Takeaway

Pinsplitter59 · April 8, 2013

Thought this might be worth a new post.

My recent experiments ahve included exploring the "aroundness" of the swing motion, something I have never really done in the last 25 years.

I am finding that starting the motion with an immediate around/circular motion , like the clubhead tracing the perimeter of a circle and keeping the clubhead as wide "out" as i can, produces a kinda nice backswing , one interesting thing i find is that when i do this, at the top my upper right arm seems to just come "around" and rest comfortably near my right body side.

When i watch the clubhead at the start it looks to me like it is going so wide outside the target line, it doesn't of course because it can't. As a result of being "around" in the backswing the forward swing is much more "around" also as a natural result.

As we see in Hogan's real swing, the right arm stays quite straight at the beginning and there is space between his upper right arm and body.

Allowing for different physical shapes etc. you could even say his takeaway is wider than the famously wide takeaway of Nicklaus.

Remakable similarities between them at the start of the swing for such different swing looks later on.

Amazing how far outside his right foot Hogan's hands are in this B&W pic.

You probably know this sequence, it is a very long wide swing and even looks like a driver he is swinging.

Thought for the day, thanks. (Tembolo, I am suitably chastised and activities on the darkside are OB now).

tembolo1284 · April 10, 2013

Haha pinsplitter nice to have you back!

Port Douglas visit in the cards or no?

Pinsplitter59 · April 11, 2013

Port Douglas?
That's just south of Bali isn't it?
Can't see myself ever getting there , but I'll wave as the plane heads to BKK, hope it don't crash in FNQ,
not only would I be dead, I would be screaming ''get me out of here''.

tembolo1284 · April 12, 2013

Where would you say is the best place to golf in Aus?

And say something about the wide takeway as well so I can ask you about it.

dairic · April 12, 2013

I think that focusing on the left arm during the takeaway promotes a wider backswing arc. Move left elbow away from the target as opposed to setting the wrists. Thinking of keeping the club head low to the ground seems to have gone out of fashion these days but this advice was promoted by people such as jack, the shark, and Mickey Wright all of whom could really smash it.

It's seems to reduce hooking. I've been fighting the hooks lately so I changed my shot patter off the tee from a push draw to a push fade with an open stance Bubba style! Definetly feels wider for sure.

Pinsplitter59 · April 14, 2013

best place to golf in Aus?
i haven't been everywhere of course, but in a city it would have to Melbourne,
long list of great courses, Royal Melbourne, Metropolitan, Kingston Heath, Victoria etc etc.
within 1.5 hours drive to Mornington Peninsula there are a lot also, Sorrento, The Dunes, The National etc.
Other way to the Bellarine Peninsula (my stomping ground) , Barwon Heads, 13th Beach, Anglesea, etc.
Some say Barnbougle in Tasmania is the best course in Aus, even though quite new.
there a gems also like Port Fairy, near Leishman's Warrnambool.
Its hard to find a bad course in these areas, even the lower ranked ones are pretty good.
Down here its really all about playing in the wind most days, you learn to like the challenge even when its 3 to 4 club or more gale blowing.

Really hoping Jason Day wins Masters tomorrow morning.
At last an Aussie attack, please dear god give us one Masters and I'll be a good boy for 12 months.

Takeaway? Can't find it anymore, played very ordinary today.

jblacoustics · April 14, 2013

I think its because Hogan's hands are farther from him in a driver, that's why his clubhead and hands and arms are and look farther from him as well and for a longer time during takeaway.

I think its a big mistake to copy that "farther" hands and "wider" club head for shorter clubs.

I think this boils down to matching your #3 angle to your imaginary inclined plane. All other things equal, the smaller the #3 angle is, the higher your plane should be, hence the wider the hands and clubhead path will be looking at it. But in reality its just higher. 3D stuff...

tembolo1284 · April 17, 2013

So the question I have is...when you are wide like this...and assuming you don't have the flexibility to get it high over your shoulders and head like Nicklaus, and you actually stop with your hands about the height of your shoulders...what do you power the club with? Your arms are both pretty straight with some bend in your right elbow of course...but overall you are very wide and very short. What do you power the club with?

Seems to me like you'd have to almost make a huge weight shift and engage your back, glutes, and legs so you can power the ball with a biggest muscles in the body. I'd imagine this swing for a shorter and stocky dude. Def not a swing for a guy like davis love III.

jblacoustics · April 18, 2013

I think like Hogan who I think used pivot and arms combined better than anyone, you power it with a faster rotation of shoulders. Lower hands on top means lower hands at impact and nearer the pelvis/thighs thru impact,..which means you can turn body faster. Careful with that low and near hands though...difficult not to stick the clubhead on the ground unless you do something with your grip...

tembolo1284 · April 18, 2013

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1366275275' post='6869927']
I think like Hogan who I think used pivot and arms combined better than anyone, you power it with a faster rotation of shoulders. Lower hands on top means lower hands at impact and nearer the pelvis/thighs thru impact,..which means you can turn body faster. Careful with that low and near hands though...difficult not to stick the clubhead on the ground unless you do something with your grip...
[/quote]

So it's a body turn release for sure right? I think this short and compact swing is the key for me because I always tend to have too slow an arm swing and come in late and hit the ball right. When I keep it short, the hands aren't so far behind...and I hit it well. I just feel the club is only at hip height and it's really hard to avoid that 'hit' instinct that screws me up so royally.

So ya...Wide takeaway with max width and some depth....but my hands feel like they never get above my shoulder. Then BOOM! pour on the power.

tembolo1284 · April 18, 2013

I also notice that this shorter swing tucks my elbow in in more of the famous 'pitch elbow' position. Can't explain why for that yet though. Not gonna really try to understand it either. I'll let iTeach explain that. Otherwise I'll go nuts and start blocking it.

Pinsplitter59 · April 19, 2013

Been wondering about what Tembolo describes as club being late, for a long time, because I have had that feeling for a very very long time.
Been trying so many different setups, backswings, gave up on Hogan theory and was going as far as Nicklaus style,
trying anything to get the damn clubhead back on the ball at the right time.
Then last night practicing, I made a simple change to my setup/address and whoosh, clubhead did not get lost and got onto the ball easily, made a simple turn and whack, I can't hit it better than that (not every shot!).

I have been doing a lot of setup experiments recently, last week I said to a mate when playing about how the setup can change what your swing does and how important it is. Then watching Jason Day at the Masters on TV I noticed how he stands to the ball looks quite different to a lot of players, more relaxed and soft and more level (from behind).
So for two sessions of practice I had been trying to get the club going straighter and swing it more left and was having some success with it (I seem to have some success with almost any new thing , so I know it usually is very deceiving), then when I made my setup change those 4 hours of practice were immediately consigned to the trash.
I won't describe it now because it might be another evil angel lying to me, but its about being level and the basketball.

(Tembolo my good son, Port Douglas really! noone goes there, what horrible twist of fate landed you in such a remote crocodile infested swamp? And I bet they don't have bars of the style to which i have become accustomed.)