Accum #3, the roll, the clubHEAD travel, the #3 angle, the bent R wrist, the low plane, low hands, h

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370832825' post='7202938']
Yes. Same response...lol[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370793840' post='7199758']
I don't need pa3 in my swing so I don't care to discuss it. No offense.
[/quote]

Really? Why? It will solve your hands higher/farther at impact issue...
[/quote]

You get steeper in transition too. Since my grip is rotated if I load it then I have to release it. Dan has seen me at ocn hitting a 52 degree wedge 125+ with a 3/4 swing. That was after zeroing out accumulators and not even at full speed. So yes I do not need the third accumulator bcuz I preset it at address. Your knowledge and comments are helping me further understand what I don't want and I commend you for it.

Im not changing my grip bcuz my instructor told me not to. Im not searching for a different release pattern bcuz my instructor told me how. But I am searching for an understanding on both sides of the spectrum. Im on the dark side with all this pa3 biz.

If I load 3 in the bs then I have to raise the handle. Its like a car stereo dilema. Amplifying something that was amplified. Distortion. Period. I want crisp delivery. Not distortion. Your full swings on YouTube are Mia.

Validate what you say in reality so we can see it.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370833077' post='7202968']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370794749' post='7199818']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370751980' post='7198332']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370736173' post='7197150']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370694584' post='7194706']
Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...
[/quote]

True. But but u know what I mean. Rolling 3 in a way that causes an off plane motion. Body reacts and hands get closer to you. Then its crunch time. lol
[/quote]

I think it won't cause an off plane motion if you get down to a lower plane (e.g., elbow plane and/or layoff move) first either during BS or transition. As I've said, a big #3 requires a lower plane...which means lower hands. Otherwise you'll whiff the ball if no compensations employed, so you usually compensate by trying to get the hands lower at release, which is too late, so you steepen the shaft or release #2 too early.

IMO only way to get that low is ERRS really consciously and with enough effort until END of transition. This in turn can't be possible if you have small built in #3 angle because reaching that low and close will make clubhead's lowest point too under the ground when #2 fully releases (fully uncocks) that you will subconsciously try to prevent it by early extending, humping, lifting your head, raising the handle, level out the shoulder turn, drag the handle left, etc....to do this without any of these compensations, you'll have to time the sweet spot to be exactly on the ball on a specific point of its downward path or "touch down" on the ball. If you fix low point all you have to worry about is the direction of path, not the touch down point.

And btw, the big #3 angle will result to longer clubhead travel, right? So when you get you get to the lower plane, when #3 spits out the clubhead out on that lower plane the clubhead's arc will be less rounded and nearer straight line. If you combine this with a more vertical shoulder turn, that clubhead arc will be almost straight and so shallow that you don't have to worry about low point location at all. I think this is how Hogan did that super long and shallow divots. Fats has been talking publicly for ages in this site about shallow divots...
[/quote]

JBL in all honesty it amazes me how much weight you put in these theories you come up with. I honestly respect the passion and you are probably a lot smarter than most including myself when it comes to this stuff. But ball flight and video don't lie. IMO you'd be better served tinkering with these things on the range instead of the theoretical chalk board.

Everything Dan says is validated by reality. Reality holds more weight than any theoretical argument, regardless of how good the logic is within your own theoretical construct. Just my honest opinion, not trying to debate this stuff.
[/quote]

And who told you guys what I'm saying are not validated by reality? Iteach, right?...lol

Iteach=reality? As far as I know it's just his one man's opinion. And he said so himself that he doesn't prefer to teach a big #3 angled swing as he finds it difficult...so he's clearly not an expert on that. He doesn't even know how to fix low point vertically.

Well, you want reality, these stuff I'm babbling about are being taught in essence by Larry Mowry aka Fats...except of course he doesn't use TGM and other technical terms like I do as he doesn't need to impress with words...lol...he has actually won on Tour and has confirmed lineage rom Hogan thru Bolt...now that IS reality...
[/quote]

SVS I was just trying to point out that you might want to reexamine your assumptions again. It's ok to admit you're lost or you've went down the wrong path. If you are steep or have swing issues it's just silly to think that you have a better grasp of this stuff than experts who help people of all levels. I didn't mean to drag Dan into this. Instead of trying to impress with your tgm words and argue your chalk board theories you'd be more productive trying to fix your swing that's the point.

[jblacoustics]

I was steep a year ago, and as I've said the problem or my lacking is the external rotation of R shoulder not being continued enough until END of transition, plus I don't fire my hips. Again he didn't point that out to me, a current player very knowledgeable on this stuff reminded me about it. It was mentioned to me long time ago by 8i, but I seem to have taken it for granted. LM told me it has merit as well.

And I'm not wrong on this, read and try to understand what I'm saying as all that iteach said re impossibility of full uncock and big #3 angle and it leading to steep AoA are wrong. I even showed you guys a video to show its possible, which iteach btw said is totally impossible. So I'm asking, who's our mutant?...lol...how can you know I'm wrong if you don't understand what I'm saying? There's a reason I didn't show the video earlier...rofl

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370838017' post='7203422']
I was steep a year ago, and as I've said the problem or my lacking is the external rotation of R shoulder not being continued enough until END of transition, plus I don't fire my hips. Again he didn't point that out to me, a current player very knowledgeable on this stuff reminded me about it. It was mentioned to me long time ago by 8i, but I seem to have taken it for granted. LM told me it has merit as well.

And I'm not wrong on this, read and try to understand what I'm saying as all that iteach said re impossibility of full uncock and big #3 angle and it leading to steep AoA are wrong. I even showed you guys a video to show its possible, which iteach btw said is totally impossible. So I'm asking, who's our mutant?...lol...how can you know I'm wrong if you don't understand what I'm saying? There's a reason I didn't show the video earlier...rofl
[/quote]

I thought you were still steep?

[eightiron]

jbl, you getting ganged up on again ? why are you debating guys that have sweet fa #3 accum in their swing or manufacture it and don't use it ? truth is , if they don't know how to do it themselves then they don't have a clue !

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1370871989' post='7204542']
jbl, you getting ganged up on again ? why are you debating guys that have sweet fa #3 accum in their swing or manufacture it and don't use it ? truth is , if they don't know how to do it themselves then they don't have a clue !
[/quote]

8i! Always nice to have you back.

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1370871989' post='7204542']
jbl, you getting ganged up on again ? why are you debating guys that have sweet fa #3 accum in their swing or manufacture it and don't use it ? truth is , if they don't know how to do it themselves then they don't have a clue !
[/quote]

They have a clue, it's just difficult so they don't teach or use it...rofl

[jblacoustics]

Eight, did you see the "reality's" advise to the rotated setup dude? You get hands higher and zero out #3!...rofl rofl rofl...now the dude's gotta hold off everything even more to avoid the lefts...lol

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1370871989' post='7204542']
jbl, you getting ganged up on again ? why are you debating guys that have sweet fa #3 accum in their swing or manufacture it and don't use it ? truth is , if they don't know how to do it themselves then they don't have a clue !
[/quote]

True. Jbl/svs also is looking for clues.

[jblacoustics]

And you know their reason/explanation why big #3 angle cause steep AoA (yup, they said that)? It's because when you have big #3 angle you lower your hands at setup so clubhead has steeper AoA...rofl rofl...and there's more, it's also because the clubhead is higher relative to hands with a big #3...rofl

[tylerdurden]

Dude what kind of floors do you have? They must be awfully fun to roll on.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370878418' post='7205358']
And you know their reason/explanation why big #3 angle cause steep AoA (yup, they said that)? It's because when you have big #3 angle you lower your hands at setup so clubhead has steeper AoA...rofl rofl...and there's more, it's also because the clubhead is higher relative to hands with a big #3...rofl
[/quote]

Nobody said lower hands at setup. And clubhead higher in relation to the ground before p7 (6.5ish)

Pretty sure you just blended posts of 3 different people. And you used to take online lessons from iteach. Not sure why you won't accept his title of the wizard lol

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370877370' post='7205170']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1370871989' post='7204542']
jbl, you getting ganged up on again ? why are you debating guys that have sweet fa #3 accum in their swing or manufacture it and don't use it ? truth is , if they don't know how to do it themselves then they don't have a clue !
[/quote]

True. Jbl/svs also is looking for clues.
[/quote]

His M.O. hasn't changed since he got banned for multiple accounts. Throw garbage out there, make incorrect assertions, misrepresent what others teach and say so that he can rile them up enough to reveal information. Not going to work.

[PingG10guy]

And forcing yourself to hold er of the right arm/turning the shoulders will just disrupt your alignments and help you fake a position. Its not the root cause

Pretty sure u have swings on camera that show it in reality

[tembolo1284]

Alright that's it. Time to sound the horn and summon the wizard.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370878687' post='7205404']
Dude what kind of floors do you have? They must be awfully fun to roll on.
[/quote]


This is what I have in mind. The bloody handprints are because he took Hogan's grip INCORRECTLY!

[attachment=1724978:funTimes.JPG]

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370881439' post='7205800']
Alright that's it. Time to sound the horn and summon the wizard.
[/quote]

Where do I get a horn from? They never pop up on the BST...

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370882042' post='7205892']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370881439' post='7205800']
Alright that's it. Time to sound the horn and summon the wizard.
[/quote]

Where do I get a horn from? They never pop up on the BST...
[/quote]

they are there. I got one in matte black.

[attachment=1724992:wizardHorn.JPG]

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370882354' post='7205952']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370882042' post='7205892']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370881439' post='7205800']
Alright that's it. Time to sound the horn and summon the wizard.
[/quote]

Where do I get a horn from? They never pop up on the BST...
[/quote]

they are there. I got one in matte black.

[attachment=1724992:wizardHorn.JPG]
[/quote]

OMG my wife read this and said "you guys are talking about real horns?" Taylormade horns are rumored to carry the calls 17 yards further than the competition. Good thing my contract with Ping will expire soon.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370883283' post='7206118']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370882354' post='7205952']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370882042' post='7205892']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370881439' post='7205800']
Alright that's it. Time to sound the horn and summon the wizard.
[/quote]

Where do I get a horn from? They never pop up on the BST...
[/quote]

they are there. I got one in matte black.

[attachment=1724992:wizardHorn.JPG]
[/quote]

OMG my wife read this and said "you guys are talking about real horns?" Taylormade horns are rumored to carry the calls 17 yards further than the competition. Good thing my contract with Ping will expire soon.
[/quote]

mine is a titleist horn so iTeach can hear it.

I'm really bad with it still. Sounds like a pig snorting.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370878418' post='7205358']
And you know their reason/explanation why big #3 angle cause steep AoA (yup, they said that)? It's because when you have big #3 angle you lower your hands at setup so clubhead has steeper AoA...rofl rofl...and there's more, it's also because the clubhead is higher relative to hands with a big #3...rofl
[/quote]

Here you go JBL...I used your grip per your video and showed it inline with roll of PA3. First is 90* so clubhead is the furthest away from the center axis of PA3 (some say the axis of 3 is the shoulder ; some say the center is the wrist so keep it simple and think of the wrist). Then the left wrist is level so the clubhead is closer to the center axis of 3, then I dont have Wizard freak wrist, but if I did and could fully unc0ck like that then the clubhead would be inline with the center axis of 3. so the angle that PA3 operates on (PA3 angle) gets smaller with less wristc0ck. PA2 sets up how PA3 releases.

Imagine your hands closer to your body at P5.5 on EP with this "big PA3 angle" aka lots of wristc0ck. If your losing PA2 (shrinking the PA3 angle) then the clubhead is moving closer to the ground and further away from the hands. If you maintain this big PA3 angle (wristc0ck maintained longer) then the clubhead is farthest away from your hands and the hands stay low. Turn the shoulders vertical? What other ways can you think of to say raise the handle and dump it in the ground? Oh and the "layoff move"? You mean Teeace it and reverse roll the forearms to fake a position? Adding more PA3...hands lower; more ground missing blah blah blah. I like rolling on floors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O8t13xBQ5Q

[tembolo1284]

Guess my horn is broken. Wizard never came!

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370916404' post='7210644']
Guess my horn is broken. Wizard never came!
[/quote]

yeah. I figured that he would at least tell me if i got it wrong or not. I guess i need to know how pa3 works so i can understand if i am actually using it.

I think svs is off to change accounts again.

[chrisgilly09]

Lol, Fanny Adams

Y'all remind me of Ron Burgundy calling the news team together, I like it

[PingG10guy]

Dear JBL/SVS

All "tone" aside I wanted to say thanks. Hopefully you didnt get offended by my golfwrx tone forum banter. Trying to understand your theories of the pattern you proposed and the implications of using PA3 really helped me understand what I dont want to do (no offense). The way I see it there are a few things that influence shallowing out in transition, and this thread (+ a few others the Wizard was kind enough to drop some knowledge in) helped me understand when PA3 was being employed, and when it wasnt. So as a golfer that doesnt need to actively load; and has always release PA3 before 2 because of misconceptions, I have to change some rate of shoulder turn at takeaway, and exclusively in transition I had to lose PA1, and PA4 (its been discussed in a few threads from 2009 and a couple on the richie 3jack blog) as a way to NOT add PA3 in transition. Considering the Teeace stuff was an eye opener too (reverse roll, opposite circles straight lines etc). Then there's Hogan, a guy who strikes the ball with tons of PA3.

If my pattern is based on not using PA3 then I use it...bad things happen. Im putting this post in here because someday someone will need it along the way.

I guess Ive had a motive in lots of the PA3 discussions lately because I know I need to maintain space, and not use PA3. This thread really helped me out. I may not be correct on all of my implications, but its getting there. If you dont reply I wanted you to know I appreciate your input.

And I do look forward to some video of your pattern in action. You never posted. I searched all of your usernames on youtube and couldnt find anything ROFL

[tylerdurden]

Maybe the ROFL could be used as part of a warm up routine?

[t_mac1213]

I need to go pop 10 advils after reading this thread.

[tembolo1284]

mac o'grady.

[tylerdurden]

Lol ROFL in peace JBL.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370966185' post='7214062']
Lol ROFL in peace JBL.
[/quote]

what was that?