Can a swing plane be too vertical (if spine angle is correct)?

[demclimber]

This started out as a side conversation on one of the other threads, but I wanted to isolate it here. If you have the proper spine angle at address, is there a practical limit to how vertical your arms can swing on the backswing? If the ideal swing plane is your left arm ending up slightly above the right shoulder, and Monte preaches the "thumbs up" feel on the backswing, is there such a thing as too vertical?

 

as PSUFish put it, "...assuming a decent backswing, is going maximum thumbs up (in a blended way with rotation and in sync with the rest of the BS) a sound idea?"

 

Thinking specifically about Dustin Johnson, who, odd left wrist or not, has a great spine angle and is tall enough that his backswing approaches vertical.

[lv_2_hack]

All players have a 'natural' or 'bio mechanical' swing plane they should swing on. Again IMO it all comes down to length of arms. Short arms should/tend to be on a flatter plane, long arms on a more vertical plane.

I'm tall but with short arms, so I will always play my best golf from a left arm being at or slightly below my shoulder plane at the top of my backswing. DJ looks to have longer arms so he will be higher. Same with Bubba.

[psufish]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1378750080' post='7820529']
All players have a 'natural' or 'bio mechanical' swing plane they should swing on. Again IMO it all comes down to length of arms. Short arms should/tend to be on a flatter plane, long arms on a more vertical plane.

I'm tall but with short arms, so I will always play my best golf from a left arm being at or slightly below my shoulder plane at the top of my backswing. DJ looks to have longer arms so he will be higher. Same with Bubba.
[/quote]

I think you're absolutely right, but what you said doesn't invalidate what the OP is asking, they're not mutually exclusive. If we re-phrased the question in the context of your response...if one maintains good backswing fundamentals, is a strong vertical hinge one of the components most good players do to arrive at their "bio-bechanical" swing plane? In other words, would it be fair to say you'd arrive at a different place based on long/short arms, but in the process of getting there you'd be making a strong vertical hinge no matter which you had.

[lv_2_hack]

@psu I must have read that wrong. I thought his question was how 'vertical the arms should swing with proper shoulder turn?'

1. Good players/strong vertical hinge?

I'd say yes. Most blend together the amount arms lift/wrists set/shoulders turn so it won't always look like there is as much hinge as there really is.

I'm a huge wrist set guy, I think it helps players with alot of different issues. But in reality the amount you hinge shouldn't have much effect on the static position of your arms at the top. What it will effect is HOW your arms get there and the momentum on the way down.

Edit: you can definitely over kill the wrist set. IMO it all comes back to the arm swing illusion stuff. Dan also helped me alot on this. It's about everything arriving to the top of the backswing at the same time. The goal is for arms and shoulders to reach the top together. The setting of the wrists keeps the club in front of you and aids in the process. Setting wrists early help your average golfer alot more than it hurts IMO.

[demclimber]

I guess I was wondering if the "thumbs straight up" feeling Monte and others talk about really means straight up. Will thinking or feeling like my arms go straight up result in me hitting my natural/bio-mechanical optimal swing plane? I know what I have right now is far too flat, trying to figure out now how to feel the change properly. The "Arm Swing Illusion" thread helps, but I'm searching for more too. For me being able to hit some physical limit helps me know where I am in the swing, which is why I liked Hardy's "left arm pinned across the chest" as a feeling, though not what it did to my actual swing.

LV, I find your posts useful because I share the problem of coordinating long limbs. Your picture looks like your arms are at least as vertical as DJ's to me, but it might be the angle of the photo.

[lv_2_hack]

Dem- The problem with alot of this stuff is feel for you is a different feel for someone else. That's why books and teaching online are tough. You need your arms to lift much more than you're used to. But some read that and say, oh Lv teaches vertical arms. Of monte mentions thumbs up and now everyone thinks he teaches max wrist set. It's so individualistic.

For the most part, your average hacker needs more wrist set, width, vertical shoulder turn. Having said that, I'm working with someone right now that needs the opposite. It's all about the needs of the individual. I know it sucks to hear that but it's so true.

Edit: about my arms, my arms usually match my shoulders. I've had a tendency with Dan to lift too much when trying to keep arms in front and I forget to turn shoulders enough. When my shoulders turn properly, it's right at or just below shoulder plane. I'd definitely be a hardy one planer just with arms in front/width. Again, I have 6'4 arms and I'm 6'7.

[demclimber]

Right, of course. I'm far too flat thanks to reading Hardy, but in order to get my arms to stay in front (which I'm convinced is right, even if I struggle to do it) I also need to be more vertical. I'm probably one of those guys who needs to hear the same thing six different ways before one clicks with me.