Ask and you shall receive-The no turn cast drill

[loadnhips]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383059181' post='8073515']
[quote name='loadnhips' timestamp='1383058876' post='8073487']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383057713' post='8073387']
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCzsX-LqJ-4&sns=em[/media]
[/quote]

Suspects for what?

I think these are valid questions. What's the diff? What's your background? Are you TGM trained? MORAD trained? Good stuff anyway. Your video will help a lot.
[/quote]

I was just poking a little fun at the conversation. It's the scene where they tell Fenster, "in English please!"
[/quote]

I thought its in plain english. And with better or more exact things on what to do. And there's the R forearm supination/CW rotation or kept neutral (not supinated) stuff....lol...sorry, that's a bit complex...

But I gotta admit, I prefer more details/complexities than too simple. At least you know if you're doing it right or not. SImple always makes you think you're doing it right, but your not......wouldn't you agree? I'm sure you give more details on paid lessons.

Anyway, good stuff to introduce people to excellent (aka more complex) stuff.

[JT41L5d3]

Hey Monte,

Great video! Gonna give it a shot on the range this week.

My question is this:

I hear people preach about making space and even your bump-dump-turn video that all seem to contradict what you are conveying in this video about connection (to me).

I know that the bump-dump-turn incorporates somehow with the ideas in this video but I just can't make the connection between the two.

You say not to fire the hips first in this video, but isn't that essentially what the 'bump' portion means since the arms follow?

You've seen my swing video and I have the terrible problem of basically looking like I'm at address at impact. Not sure which of these thought processes I should be prioritizing.

Thanks again for the drill!

[MonteScheinblum]

There is a huge difference between bumping the hips a few inches forward and firing them hard toward the target, rotating them hard and purposely leaving the arms behind.

You want DTL view room for the arms, not FO room..

[vjswing]

[quote name='sco3putt' timestamp='1383002026' post='8070821']
After hitting balls into greens for over a hour using this move I figured I would try some bunker shots. I had a revelation in the bunker that enlightened the move. It felt like i was throwing the weight of the club with my right fore finger at the ball. This gave me perfect ball flight, thin divots, and most of my distance back. This could just work for me.
[/quote]

My bunker play has been absolutely atrocious for years, and I decided to give Monte's concept a shot yesterday at the short game practice area at my local muni. WOW!! Incredibly effective! I hit some shots from both dry and damp sand, and I was taking these beautiful rectangular, perfect-depth "divots" of sand, with the ball floating out of the bunker so nicely, checking up the green with just the right amount of spin. I was literally fist-pumping with excitement!

Oh, the technique worked great for various pitch shots I was hitting anywhere from 10 to 60 yards as well. The short ones were the toughest to gauge, simply because I was hitting the ball with such force that it became difficult to accept how short I had to make the actual backswing.

[jdb523]

For the casting piece of this, would it have the same feel as that of throwing the clubhead at the ball?

[DLiver]

Sorry for mucking up the thread guys. I should have known my little joke would lead to something like this.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='jdb523' timestamp='1383066707' post='8074207']
For the casting piece of this, would it have the same feel as that of throwing the clubhead at the ball?
[/quote]

Yes

[jdb523]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383067100' post='8074247']
[quote name='jdb523' timestamp='1383066707' post='8074207']
For the casting piece of this, would it have the same feel as that of throwing the clubhead at the ball?
[/quote]

Yes
[/quote]

Thanks, Monte!. That's the way my dad taught me when I was a kid. Swing the club back, then throw the clubhead at the ball. It worked great until the all the golf magazines said it was wrong.

[Ripper212]

[size=4]Sorry to repeat the question but I'd like to know how this no-turn backswing feel correlates with the swing thought of starting the backswing by turning right shoulder back. Is this just another example of different needs for different folks? Seems like a very different way to accomplish the same thing or am I misunderstanding something. Wouldn't be the first time![/size]

[scratch72]

Monte, you have missed alot of questions on this thread, thats not like you. Whats wrong did your cargo shorts shrink up in the dryer?

[ej002]

you guys crack me up ....

[Krt22]

For the bump dump and turn swing thought...so would the early cast just replace the dump portion?

[The Pearl]

I have been waiting for this all of my golfing life. If there is one thing I can do, and do well, it is throw the clubhead at the golf ball. I feel like Rudy waiting to run out on the field at Notre Dame Stadium.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1383077823' post='8075103']
I have been waiting for this all of my golfing life. If there is one thing I can do, and do well, it is throw the clubhead at the golf ball. I feel like Rudy waiting to run out on the field at Notre Dame Stadium.
[/quote]
Any movie with Ned Beatty reminds me of the terrifying childhood movie experience "Deliverance"...and why I stay out of the south. Sorry rednecks..

[wmblake2000]

The thing for me that I needed to do to throw the head at the ball is I needed to make sure my arms still swing into place. The whole motion has to get in sync. Hips, arms, etc. Bump, dump and turn are all in play.

Like everything, you have to figure out the nuance and fill in the blanks. If you literally throw the head from the top, all hell breaks loose - fat, thin, etc. These are all just concepts, language used to approximate what actually happens. At least, that's the way I see it. But some people are in a place where they seem to be looking for hard and fast rules (I know - I've been there, many times), and I just don't think this kind of clarity or certainty exists. I actually think the thing I like about Monte is there is a whole lot of common sense running through the middle of his thinking, and not a lot of dogma.

Anyway, I just wanted to add this thought. I kept thinking it after a lot of posts.

But for me, these two ideas creates the speed, and more, that the shorter backswing had taken away, and introduced a lot more consistency. And I am still, of course, just beginning to learn how to do it.

[Asiz]

Good video Monte,

This vid validated what I had been experiencing earlier this year. I've always struggled with a late release or a very delofted but open club face at impact. So one day i thought i should try and get the club as close to its original loft and square at impact as possible. Which, for me, meant using the right hand to release more at the ball than the target. What happened was a higher ball flight, farther ball flight, and much less fear of a fat shot. Unfortunately, the rough doesn't cooperate with this type of shot. But I also noticed that it affected my takeaway. In order for me to execute this type of release, I need to takeaway low and straight back from the ball (from my eyesight) which keeps me from an inside takeaway.

Anayway, thanks for the vid

Ps. Please don't go the way of other great contributors who exiled

[rteach1]

Monte,

Not trying to be an a**, just want to understand. In recent years, I have seen numerous articles referring to the proper kinematic sequence on the downswing; lower body, shoulders, arms, hands, club, in that order. These studies have based their conclusions on tests done with 3D equipment. I am certain that your own swing has this proper sequence. I am also assuming that you are aware of these 3D studies.

It seems to me that you are advocating turning everything back together and everything forward together. I actually like this as a concept, as it simplifies the swing, but it flies in the face of recently gained scientific knowledge of the swing.

I write as someone who once was told by an instructor to lead the downswing with my lower body, while holding back my upper body. This did lead to timing problems, as you have alluded to frequently. I see the point of what you're trying to teach us (At least I think I do), but I'm still having a hard time reconciling what you are advocating with recent research.

I guess I'm asking you what your opinion is with regard to the kinematic sequence and its utility in improving the swings of recreational golfers?

Thank you. I very much appreciate your time and effort on this forum.

rteach1

[mccarthyizm]

I'm not Monte, but I have taken several lessons with him in-person, including one covering the swing in this video. I think you're conflating suggested feels & thoughts for objective reality. I think he believes very much in the proper sequence beginning with the lower body, but that doesn't mean that trying to start with the lower body is necessarily a productive swing thought for every golfer. I run into this constantly with my own swing. I am terrible at trying to make the right things happen, but I am able to do the right things when I focus on swing thoughts that are counter-intuitive to my objective. If I try to keep my hips from turning on the downswing, they clear more than when I fire them, etc.

[bph7]

[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1383083542' post='8075501']
Monte,

Not trying to be an a**, just want to understand. In recent years, I have seen numerous articles referring to the proper kinematic sequence on the downswing; lower body, shoulders, arms, hands, club, in that order. These studies have based their conclusions on tests done with 3D equipment. I am certain that your own swing has this proper sequence. I am also assuming that you are aware of these 3D studies.

It seems to me that you are advocating turning everything back together and everything forward together. I actually like this as a concept, as it simplifies the swing, but it flies in the face of recently gained scientific knowledge of the swing.

I write as someone who once was told by an instructor to lead the downswing with my lower body, while holding back my upper body. This did lead to timing problems, as you have alluded to frequently. I see the point of what you're trying to teach us (At least I think I do), but I'm still having a hard time reconciling what you are advocating with recent research.

I guess I'm asking you what your opinion is with regard to the kinematic sequence and its utility in improving the swings of recreational golfers?

Thank you. I very much appreciate your time and effort on this forum.

rteach1
[/quote]

Rteach, its a FEEL. Meaning, at least for the downswing, it just FEELS like everything is coming down together... The people who best benefit from this feel are those whose arms are getting too stuck behind their pivot. This feel enables the arms to get "started" earlier, which helps because their problem was that the arms were behind. In other words, this feel from monte, for those who it helps, is only going to improve their kinematic sequencing, because, prior to using the feel, people were NOT correctly sequenced (since their arms were too far behind).

[Lord Helmet]

Help. I can't watch the video on my phone. What do I need to do?

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1383086258' post='8075713']
[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1383083542' post='8075501']
Monte,

Not trying to be an a**, just want to understand. In recent years, I have seen numerous articles referring to the proper kinematic sequence on the downswing; lower body, shoulders, arms, hands, club, in that order. These studies have based their conclusions on tests done with 3D equipment. I am certain that your own swing has this proper sequence. I am also assuming that you are aware of these 3D studies.

It seems to me that you are advocating turning everything back together and everything forward together. I actually like this as a concept, as it simplifies the swing, but it flies in the face of recently gained scientific knowledge of the swing.

I write as someone who once was told by an instructor to lead the downswing with my lower body, while holding back my upper body. This did lead to timing problems, as you have alluded to frequently. I see the point of what you're trying to teach us (At least I think I do), but I'm still having a hard time reconciling what you are advocating with recent research.

I guess I'm asking you what your opinion is with regard to the kinematic sequence and its utility in improving the swings of recreational golfers?

Thank you. I very much appreciate your time and effort on this forum.

rteach1
[/quote]

Rteach, its a FEEL. Meaning, at least for the downswing, it just FEELS like everything is coming down together... The people who best benefit from this feel are those whose arms are getting too stuck behind their pivot. This feel enables the arms to get "started" earlier, which helps because their problem was that the arms were behind. In other words, this feel from monte, for those who it helps, is only going to improve their kinematic sequencing, because, prior to using the feel, people were NOT correctly sequenced (since their arms were too far behind).
[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Donly]

So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????

[Krt22]

[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

a fix is a fix if it helps

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

No.

If your backswing is long and or your arms are inside and/or disconnected on the backswing...and if your arms trial the turn on the downswing, this will help. That's about 3 or 4 flaws that 3/4 or more golfers have at least one of.

[wmblake2000]

[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

I am not quite sure what 'band aid fix' means. I think it means 'gimmicky, temporary, not fundamentally important.'

I think what Monte (and several other very talented teachers who have contributed over time) have defined are a core set of principles that they all agree upon. This video plus a few others from Monte address specific feels that implement these principles, especially when viewed from the what I'd call the 'common cold' of many amateurs.

So I guess I'd characterize this as the polar opposite of a band aid fix.

[Donly]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383103008' post='8077047']
[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

No.

If your backswing is long and or your arms are inside and/or disconnected on the backswing...and if your arms trial the turn on the downswing, this will help. That's about 3 or 4 flaws that 3/4 or more golfers have at least one of.
[/quote]

So if a golfer has a good set-up, an on-plane backswing, and sequenced dynamic transition; throwing the club at the top would be rather foolish. Would it not be better for a golfer to learn correct movements rather than a "band-aid fix" for bad fundamentals?

[mccarthyizm]

[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383105892' post='8077183']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383103008' post='8077047']
[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

No.

If your backswing is long and or your arms are inside and/or disconnected on the backswing...and if your arms trial the turn on the downswing, this will help. That's about 3 or 4 flaws that 3/4 or more golfers have at least one of.
[/quote]

So if a golfer has a good set-up, an on-plane backswing, and sequenced dynamic transition; throwing the club at the top would be rather foolish. Would it not be better for a golfer to learn correct movements rather than a "band-aid fix" for bad fundamentals?
[/quote]

This isn't a bandaid. For those of us with some of the problems mentioned, these swing thoughts result in correct movements. Surely you don't think Monte is actually advocating for a no-turn backswing followed by a cast? It's the thought of doing each that produces a good result, not the actual act of not turning followed by a cast.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383105892' post='8077183']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1383103008' post='8077047']
[quote name='Donly' timestamp='1383095504' post='8076479']
So, is this just a band-aid fix for a certain swing flaw ?????
[/quote]

No.

If your backswing is long and or your arms are inside and/or disconnected on the backswing...and if your arms trial the turn on the downswing, this will help. That's about 3 or 4 flaws that 3/4 or more golfers have at least one of.
[/quote]

So if a golfer has a good set-up, an on-plane backswing, and sequenced dynamic transition; throwing the club at the top would be rather foolish. Would it not be better for a golfer to learn correct movements rather than a "band-aid fix" for bad fundamentals?
[/quote]

In theory yes, but we don't live in Neverland where Tinkerbell can speed pixie dust on everyone and produce the three things you list. Most can't even perform one of them when they try direct action. We live in the real world where proper fundamentals are often created with a feel that seems counterintuitive to the ultimate goal.

[xThor]

Recently watched a michael breed video where he wsd throwing a golf ball at a spot a few feet in front of him. Made sense to see it and see the right wrist 'fire' when throwing the ball.

Monte's video to me seemed to show that firing with a club. Very helpful video monte. Made things click for me and can't wait to give it a try at the range.

[Paul E]

If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.