My personal range notes from today

[tylerdurden]

edited to not waste time

[jdhallissey]

IF that is what really goes through your head on the range well I am sorry. You really need to approach it completely different. How about just get up and hit the ball. Get back into just swinging and not thinking. I hold my own and trying to get back to where I was on the mini tour scene. The best days when I play golf is when there is not a thought going throw my head. Just grip and rip. I understand the need to work on things on the range/course. (I actually work on the course) more penalizing makes you focus just that little bit more.

I understand the going over everything process but unless you can seperate all that and not lose sleep over it you are in trouble my friend lol. Almost in the Tincup fashion!

[allycat]

I've always carried range notes onto the course, nothing like yours though lol

Here is the last torn up back of score card, I pull it out a few times a round I guess...

"Head up, a** out, kick the right knee" That is address notation..

"Hands to the hip slowly"

"get the right shoulder down"

I'm not sure how anyone else would interpret that but I played a pretty stout 9 yesterday. I like notes...

[crapula]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1346991488' post='5600345']
I'm too tired to edit this but I think what I talked about here was important. Feel free to comment or ask questions (or say I'm clueless). Yes I am a complete weirdo and I talk to myself lol. I dont know why but I'm sharing anyways.

Like last night. Setup and pivot dominate arms. So don't allow pivot to get sloppy to accomidate some bs arm swing.
In other words u know the pivot you want so always build off of that. Don't work on arm swing if u hulking. Fix pivot first
Belly should never look away from target. Too long and sloppy.
Base stays stable and centered and spine hardly hulks at all. Currently feels very short but used to be natural. See cmdean1 swings march '11.
Block happens because hulking and over turning. And base de-stabilizing.
But another huge reason is elbow getting in front of stomach. Hit it with elbow on side like hunter and old hogan. My miss is a block and this with a tripodish pivot eliminates a block because it forces me to release it.
To get longer clubs to click today had to feel core rotate while shoulders were still closed into delivery. Right side of core covers so right elbow gets on side. Again - elbow in front (FOR ME) means I'm going to get face wide wide open. Block happens and other comps develop.
Biggest change today that allowed all this-
I didn't read tgm but I feel like making right forearm takeaway. Specifically, I realize my right elbow getting at my navel was making me block it. I started researching my takeaway. In march '11 I would get right hand very cupped and on top. Today I tried going back to that. I looked at robert rock, hogan, rory, matteo, spider, woodland and hoffman.
I noticed the grip never points at the navel in the takeaway from sky view. see this easy in slicefixer video from about. Club and shoulders almost parallel from sky view in takeaway. Doing this while trying to keep right hand cupped, left wrist flat and face sqare to arc (instead of wide open) forces right arm more on side. Which is what I needed because its the deliver I want. Club feels inside shut but really goes right up my right forearm.
This is completely different with bowing right wrist and cupping left in takeaway. Toe was wide open and club pointing a navel from sky. Just awful. And like above, this was so far off that pivot compensated massively to try making it work. Couldve been avoided if paid attention to not allowing foundation(pivot) to deviate. Another reason to always study face on just as hard as dtl.
This takeaway in my full swing felt same as my shortgame which has been very solid with zero practice. As I described it, a result of this takeaway is grip feels like it works out away from body a hair as left wrist flat right on top and club works parallel to shoulders from sky.
I got here by chipping today. Then I started working up with longer clubs but refusing to make a big sloppy pivot. Felt like I was chipping hybrids and drivers. It looked good but couldn't hit driver until felt elbow on side with shut shoulders and open core into deliver.
Back to work, hopefully I can stay on the right track.
Cannot deviate from this insistance of building on top of a solid neutral pivot and setup. I did that all summer and got no where. Its like building a house on a foundation of sand instead of concrete. Yes you must maintain concrete, but you can build something on it. Sand will just go to s*** as will everything on top of it as its no longer supported. So maintain it and layer on top of good habits instead of trying new stuff and letting good stuff go to s***.
Because the fact is, you will always have some bad ideas or try things the wrong way. But you get a lot less off track and save a lot of time if you refuse to deviate. Because if you try doing the wrong thing (wrong bs for example) it simply will not work with an air tight setup and strait left arm. So simply drop it and can that s***. Garbage I mean. That was hogans process and that's what I've been overlooking this whole time.
[/quote]

Holy crap.

This is an example of what my range notes look like:

1.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

My range notes are:


"Ommmmmmmmm......ommmmmmmmmmm...........ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Now my mind is clear. Let's put on a show and attract a crowd."

Then only crowd that shows up is always the grey-haired dude with monstrous callousas on his hands that swings blades wanting to tell me about my pivot not working lol. Pivot class coming soon Sir!

And there's also the new-school guys that want me to swing their new white driver so I can get more distance. Man....that driver head is MASSIVE!! Then I always hand them my wooden artifact; they try it and flub, top, shank every shot, while hurting their wrists in the process.

[JBOMB808]

Very detailed notes. I have an app on my phones just for these things. Sadly I go through notes like underwear. I never keep it the same, but I do see a reoccurring 'pivot' thought. The funny thing is that essentially you have to have two swings. A body swing to move the arm swing. I see your notes contain both.

[Jobu]

You have to swing your arms. You cannot swing the club without swinging your arms. The golf swing is not up and down or around; it's back and forth.

[bhughesgolf]

Jobu
How would you describe swinging the arms?
To put it another way what part of the swing do the arms 'actively' do anything?

[Jobu]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1347163589' post='5610227']
Jobu
How would you describe swinging the arms?
To put it another way what part of the swing do the arms 'actively' do anything?
[/quote]

i'm not going into great detail but the muscles that are activated in the arms determine where the clubhead wants to go, this action occurs in the first half of the backswing

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1347164196' post='5610263']
i'm not going into great detail but the muscles that are activated in the arms determine where the clubhead wants to go, this action occurs in the first half of the backswing
[/quote]

Yes I can see that.....as we move the club away in some sort of fashion to gain motion to find the best way for us to get to our slot and down entry path... I would call that more a 'passive' movement however as we just moving it and not forcing or pressuring it anywhere...and that also depends on the backswing path we seek. An outside takeaway would be more arms orientated than an inside takeaway with would be more body activated bringing the arms with it...
In my thoughts and my swing there is only one point where I would 'actively' use the arms (as a whole)...shoulder to hands.......where would you (or others) think we would/should realy feel that 'active' work
Not trying to question just trying to get people thinking......

[dairic]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1347167674' post='5610381']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1347164196' post='5610263']
i'm not going into great detail but the muscles that are activated in the arms determine where the clubhead wants to go, this action occurs in the first half of the backswing
[/quote]

Yes I can see that.....as we move the club away in some sort of fashion to gain motion to find the best way for us to get to our slot and down entry path... I would call that more a 'passive' movement however as we just moving it and not forcing or pressuring it anywhere...and that also depends on the backswing path we seek. An outside takeaway would be more arms orientated than an inside takeaway with would be more body activated bringing the arms with it...
In my thoughts and my swing there is only one point where I would 'actively' use the arms (as a whole)...shoulder to hands.......where would you (or others) think we would/should realy feel that 'active' work
Not trying to question just trying to get people thinking......
[/quote]

At the point where the pivot turns the corner to square the club face for impact, with rotated forearms, club face wide open and coming in at a 45 degree angle or deep, smash the crap out of the ball with active arms.

For whatever reason I can only get This when I add wrist cupping in the backswing, otherwise it doesn't come together properly. Need lots of range of motion.

[allycat]

When I was a kid I always thought my left hip initiated my ds, atm I think of a slow pump down move to start. I have no idea what my body is actually doing but that is what I think, hands to the hip, it's probably more of a shoulder move and surely pretty small. Once my ds is in motion I have never thought of arms hands or anything else. I turn and stare at the ball lol.

On a really bad striking day I will tell myself to backhand the ball with my left wrist but that is only a thought at address. If that does not work I'll think, raise the left shoulder through impact. All just jeti mind tricks.

When I am really on, the ds is triggered in auto pilot and the ball is purred. There is no way I have any conscious thought other then success much past the take away. Obviously, I play by feel and emotion.

[Jobu]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1347167674' post='5610381']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1347164196' post='5610263']
i'm not going into great detail but the muscles that are activated in the arms determine where the clubhead wants to go, this action occurs in the first half of the backswing
[/quote]

Yes I can see that.....as we move the club away in some sort of fashion to gain motion to find the best way for us to get to our slot and down entry path... I would call that more a 'passive' movement however as we just moving it and not forcing or pressuring it anywhere...and that also depends on the backswing path we seek. An outside takeaway would be more arms orientated than an inside takeaway with would be more body activated bringing the arms with it...
In my thoughts and my swing there is only one point where I would 'actively' use the arms (as a whole)...shoulder to hands.......where would you (or others) think we would/should realy feel that 'active' work
Not trying to question just trying to get people thinking......
[/quote]

the only time we should feel the active work of the arms is when the shaft is being leveraged by the butt pad on the right index finger, which for me feels like after impact, but for most OTTers is at the top of the backswing. If you are the real Bradley Hughes, i really like your video of drawing a line. there is no place for straight back and forth (out-to-out or in-to-in) in the golf swing, because everything must stop at the end of the backstroke.

[allycat]

I would think if an OTT guy felt a strong arm move at the top he could figure out to stop doing it? Or do I understand you right, who wants to release the club at the top??

[Jobu]

[quote name='allycat' timestamp='1347173003' post='5610535']
I would think if an OTT guy felt a strong arm move at the top he could figure out to stop doing it? Or do I understand you right, who wants to release the club at the top??
[/quote]

the feeling of OTT, when the right hand takes over at the top, is caused by laying off the club or cupping the right wrist during the backswing. Yeah, you can fight that feeling and manufacture a swing, but the tendency will always be there.

[allycat]

I disagree, so if anyone has ever developed an over the top move they are doomed? Only every hoping to manufacture something all the while fighting a bad tendency?

Perhaps you are eluding to some corrections that can be made at address. I think the best way to motivate a change is physically showing someone with ott what it looks like to release like that, "so, you tee'd your ball a few feet in the air behind your feet?"

Back to the topic of 'feeling' an arm move, hopefully not at the top of the bs. Do slingers to the target line smash the arms toward the ball or some sort?

[bhughesgolf]

I don't really feel the arms as a whole (upper arms above the elbow joint in particular) do much at all after initial backswing passive sweep away...until they actively keep pressuring the club at hip high post impact area (P4 in my terms) and rip the club up to finish point once rotation and left side ab crunch post impact is maxed out ....

until that point they are very inactive and glued .......after then they move off the torso because of the use of them and the club points high vertical to finish point.....won't be seeing any headcovers or towels staying under these armpits :nyam:

 

 

 

[allycat]

I just went out and made a few 20 practice swings with a 5 iron. I still don't feel any active arm movement, although I did notice something a bit funny late in the follow though with my left elbow. Hmmm, so not a range note but a practice note to take to the range LOL

1. check out left elbow.

Seriously though, everything I got or gave, does seem to fly up way past impact zone. I'm also keeping an eye on something TeeAce said about hand path vs. club head path. Keeping in mind, I will always make my adjustments at address, take away, and into the slot. Simply watching out of curiosity atm. Maybe I should say in the other thread but I'll just hope he sees it here. I'm noticing my hands inside and left of the club head a pretty long time. Parallel to the target, or turning over, when the shaft is pointed to the sky.(everything is pretty far left but parallel to foot path, I guess that is what you guys say is exterior left shoulder rotation? Just seems like around the spine to me)

I probably make zero sense at this point, that is golf.

[tembolo1284]

holy cow this is lizard brain full throttle.