Who makes a better vehicle? foreign or domestic.

[Golf Monster]

With all the GM cut backs due to happen, i'm interisted in what u guy's think about why we aren't buying our american made vehicles. :dntknw:

[k_dubs]

It's not my fault bro...I've got 2 Dodges in the garage and couldn't be more pleased.

[fish]

Money, Value, Resale, dependability. Those are the reasons that people buy Toyota and Honda products.

I have been in the auto business for the past 15 years and I have seen the resale values of toyota and Honda products stay at a higher value then most all domestic made vehicles. German vehicles in my opinion are over engineered and cost a fortune to maintain. Domestic cars chevy ford and dodge. Do not have the dependability factor that you find with Japanese cars for the most part. I would love to purchase a domestic car that holds its value, doesn't break down alot and is dependable but I have yet to find one. I will continue my quest for this domestic car whilst I continue my search for bigfoot, flying saucers, buried treasures and a driver that allows me to hit the ball 300 + yards and straight down the middle every time. Just my Honest opinion.

 

Fish

[Golf Monster]

Well said Fish but is it technology or profit that leave the big 3 in the dust with sales of automobiles in the U.S. I once heard it said that you pay upwards of an extra 1,500 plus on each vehicle that u buy from GM , to pay for insurance&pensions of retired employees Fish what business are u in?

 

G monster

[millercg]

I've had both Domestic and imported cars (Japanese only so far). I would say the biggest difference is the dependability, but a close second is the quality. I think both of those factors have a big impact on resale value, and the image of the companies. I've got a Ford right now, and have had it in the shop much more often than my last car (a Nissan). Not that the Ford won't start, but when you go from a car that's pretty silent and only needs regular maintenance to one that starts making noises in panels, the engine, the rear axel, the transmission, or suspension, it makes you think twice about buying another domestic car. The overall quality isn't quite there on the Ford either. You can definately tell where they skimped on the quality of a part of the car due to a cheaper material. I haven't driven a GM car in a few years, but I've worked with a lot of others that have, and they also have had similar issues. I've also hear that Dodge/Chrysler have also got their problems.

 

I think the domestic companies underestimated the "word of mouth" reviews/recommendations, which due carry weight when you're buying something for that much money. Did the domestic manufacturers every think 10 to 20 years ago, that they would be looking up at the Japanese car companies? Probably not.

A good quality product will sell itself, even if it costs a little more than the competition. I mean, look at most people's signatures on this site. Not to many people here would buy the cheapest clubs they could find if it wasn't from a quality brand company. The domestics can come back, but they're going to have to change the way the've been doing things the last 20 years or so.

 

Just my two pennies...

[dan360]

Domestic manufacturers capitalize on what's hot at the moment, and many times pour too much of their energy into fads.

 

Back in '98 the Oldsmobile Intrigue was not only the best domestic car in the marketplace, but also won many international awards and was on par with anything Japan or Europe offered at the time.

 

Problem was, and still is, hardly anyone outside of the automotive press knew about the Intrigue.....but we all know what a Suburban is. :dntknw:

 

They made a feeble attempt at marketing the car, but when you put out your best car in years, and possibly the best car you've EVER made, and badge as an Oldsmobile, the sinking ship brand nobody in GM corporate wanted around, well.........it's a wonder the General has lasted this long.

 

 

Even Ford can't seem to get it right. The Ford Five-Hundred is quite possibly the best car of 2005, yet all the company seems to want to focus on are their trucks and SUV's.

 

Why? Simple answer---their biggest margins are in trucks & SUV's, and right now both Ford and GM need that margin to stay afloat. Sad but true.

 

I drive American (Dodge Ram) only because Toyota doesn't make a 1 ton 4x4 diesel pickup truck. Yet....

[DOUGLY]

Domestic manufacturers capitalize on what's hot at the moment, and many times pour too much of their energy into fads.

 

Back in '98 the Oldsmobile Intrigue was not only the best domestic car in the marketplace, but also won many international awards and was on par with anything Japan or Europe offered at the time.

 

Problem was, and still is, hardly anyone outside of the automotive press knew about the Intrigue.....but we all know what a Suburban is. :dntknw:

 

They made a feeble attempt at marketing the car, but when you put out your best car in years, and possibly the best car you've EVER made, and badge as an Oldsmobile, the sinking ship brand nobody in GM corporate wanted around, well.........it's a wonder the General has lasted this long.

 

 

Even Ford can't seem to get it right. The Ford Five-Hundred is quite possibly the best car of 2005, yet all the company seems to want to focus on are their trucks and SUV's.

 

Why? Simple answer---their biggest margins are in trucks & SUV's, and right now both Ford and GM need that margin to stay afloat. Sad but true.

 

I drive American (Dodge Ram) only because Toyota doesn't make a 1 ton 4x4 diesel pickup truck. Yet....

 

 

You are going to get your wish....and soon.

Watch for Toyota to enter the HD truck market inside of 3 years. Diesel hybrid technology is on the drawing board.

[ScottWS33]

I think there are two big problems with American cars. Number 1 handling. Compare Dodge to a Porsche 911 Turbo and there is light years between them. The Porsche holds the road so well whilst US cars are still lagging behind. Also luxury. Luxury to American car maufactures is just making something bigger. Still a lot of low rent plastics in the interior which you wouldn't get in foreign cars.

[fish]

Well said Fish but is it technology or profit that leave the big 3 in the dust with sales of automobiles in the U.S. I once heard it said that you pay upwards of an extra 1,500 plus on each vehicle that u buy from GM , to pay for insurance&pensions of retired employees Fish what business are u in?

 

G monster

 

I have been I service advisor for the past 15 years and I have worked with Toyota, honda, dodge, gm and back to toyota and I have seen the ins and outs of all these cars and I wish the us makers would take a page out of toyota and hondas books. r and d is far superior with toyota and honda and in the us invation is mostly copy cat. Or it is toyotas old technology. See the ford hybrid's. ANY one that works on toyotas assembly line that detects a probelm can stop the line at any time to address the concern, They fix it right then and there so the problem is not repeated for an extended period of time. Sure it shuts the line down but it costs less to fix it while on the line than it does to pay someone to go back and fix it after it has been assembled. I would love to go back to the days when US products were quality built but I do not see that happening any time soon.

[hermes]

It's not my fault bro...I've got 2 Dodges in the garage and couldn't be more pleased.

 

couldn't be more please that it's sitting in the garage..................well, according to the dictionary..........dodge means to avoid something........gees is that why i don't own any dodge......cause they will be sitting in the garage half their life?

 

dodge the brand and go import all the way homes! :dntknw:

[VTHOKIES]

Actually when we buy American cars we are buying imports and vise versa for foreign cars. More parts of American cars are manufactured outside of the USA then are foreign cars.

[cpa49707]

Don't look at me, I have a 2005 Avalanche and 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix in my garage. I've never had a problem with any of my GM vehicles, in over 25 years of ownership. The only problem i've ever head is Firestone tires blowing out going 80 mph. Twice in the last year. Needless to say those tires have been removed from all my vehicles.

 

BUY AMERICAN AND SAVE AMERICA!

[Golf_Beauty]

I drive a Jag so I don't know if you would really consider it a foreign vehicle since Ford bought Jaguar in '92. (They recently acquired Volvo in '99.) I do know that the quality of Jaguar improved SIGNIFICANTLY when Ford took over. No more rust, engine trouble or air conditioning shortages. That must count for something. My car has the smoothes ride, all the technology you need and I haven't had to take into the shop for anything outside of maintenance.

 

My husband drives a Ford Mustang, a Cadillac Eldorado and a Mercedes Diesel. We also have a GMC Suburban; and between all the cars, the Mustang gives us the most trouble. Ford is doing something wrong, somewhere. If they could put their heads together and figure out why their luxury cars and doing a lot better and sink a little bit of that ingenuity into the mid-line cars, they'd do much better. JMHO. :dntknw:

[sergizmo]

Don't look at me, I have a 2005 Avalanche and 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix in my garage. I've never had a problem with any of my GM vehicles, in over 25 years of ownership. The only problem i've ever head is Firestone tires blowing out going 80 mph. Twice in the last year. Needless to say those tires have been removed from all my vehicles.

 

BUY AMERICAN AND SAVE AMERICA!

 

It's not quite that simple.

 

There are factories from all the major Japanese manufacturers in the US (Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda). When you buy Japanese you are supporting these people. Just a little FYI.

[cpa49707]

It's not quite that simple.

 

There are factories from all the major Japanese manufacturers in the US (Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda). When you buy Japanese you are supporting these people. Just a little FYI.

 

 

But why send the profits back to Japan?????

[sergizmo]

So suits in Japan get the profits instead of suits in America. Who cares? Looking at sales figures, not many people.

[birdieboy52]

" ANY one that works on toyotas assembly line that detects a probelm can stop the line at any time to address the concern, They fix it right then and there so the problem is not repeated for an extended period of time"

 

With the adversarial approach that the Big Three (sson to be little three I think) have towards union employees and a continual lack of desire to train the shop floor folks, this will never happen.

 

You're right about lack of quality, GM and Ford engines have little life after about 90,000 miles yet Honda and Toyota engines seem to the be the Energizer Bunny.

 

What Mercedes model do you own?

[cpa49707]

I have a co worker with a Chevy Bareeta with over 222,000 miles on it. going strong and its never in the shop

[TML]

I have a porsche and it is by far the best car I have ever owned. Exceptional handling, real world handling, not at all like a Nascar-kidney-busting Viper ride. The service manual has 2 recommendations. Minor service every 15k miles, and major every 30k miles. Oil change during the service appts, every 15k miles. In 4 years, I've had 2 service appts. The best service I've ever had. Treat me like royalty.

 

The last service appt I just had, they use a rental car company for loaners. I got a Ford Mustang convertible 40th anniversary edition. What a POS. The handling was bad. The steering wheel kept moving left and right on its own...sloppy. The ride was terrible, bouncing up and down like a u-haul. The dash ergonimics were just horrible to look at. The seats were so unsupportive. The v6 engine was weak and gutless, yet only got about 19 mpg during the time I had it. I can't believe anyone would buy this crap.

 

Compare the mustang to a Honda Accord V-6 I had a few years ago. Great ride, excellent performance, very smooth, exceptional handling...not as sporty as the Porsche but light years ahead of the Mustang. I think it gave me close to 32 mpg on the hwy.

 

Give the consumers a chance to compare, and Detroit is in big trouble. GM is the first up to bat. It's their own fault for riding on the coattails of the gas guzzling SUV, and all of the easy profits. That trend is done.

[Golf_Beauty]

:) :cheesy: :wave: :stop:

[Sam-Tee-Time]

I think there are two big problems with American cars. Number 1 handling. Compare Dodge to a Porsche 911 Turbo and there is light years between them. The Porsche holds the road so well whilst US cars are still lagging behind. Also luxury. Luxury to American car maufactures is just making something bigger. Still a lot of low rent plastics in the interior which you wouldn't get in foreign cars.

 

This is my feelings EXACTLY. I owned American cars when I first got out of college, and they were both rattle, rust-traps that were not worth a ****. I"ve owned Foreign cars ever since, and don't expect to ever buy a Domestic vehicle ever again. My "Brand" is BMW for many reasons - mostly to bring back fond memories of blasting down the Autobahn and country roads in Germany, with that super-solid, incredible handling machine around you - not much else comes close except for Audi, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. etc. I recognize the expen$ive nature of these vehicles, but it's what I choose to drive - because I'm a DRIVER, not simply someone who wants to camp out in a mushy, soft-handling beastly vehicle.

 

This subject is VERY hotly contested on the Automotive forums. Take a look at this interesting response from someone:

 

"US cars are still made by people who don't understand driving, who cater to the Living Room on Wheels School of Ride and Handling. One drive in a Toyota or Honda or BMW or Acura or Infiniti and you know what I'm on about. And if you don't, well, you'll get the car you deserve.

 

Drive a $30K Mercedes C class coupe. Then a Passat. Then a Mustang, or any Pontiac. Listen to your senses - the feel of the switchgear, the appearance of the dash, how intuitive (or not) the center stack controls are. Drive it, feel the steering feedback, how well it takes corners, how solid it does or doesn't feel under full braking.

 

When I get an American car as a rental, even a luxury car like a Caddy or Lincoln, its nothing like the quality of a Benz. And once its five years old, that Caddy or Lincoln starts to have the little things fall apart and quickly gets shabby and tattered in the interior - because the materials used are not of the same quality.

 

And American car makers know it - that's why they've all invested heavily in European brands, and in some cases Japanese ones too. Chrysler now benefits from Mercedes technology, Ford borrows from the Volvo and Mazda design bins, GM injected excitement in to the sagging Pontiac lineup with a rebadged Aussue Holden.

 

When even the manufacturers show that they need to buy technology from overseas, they've admitted their engineering quality is terrible."