GPS Golf Guru - Any thoughts on this?

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  • pfloggerpflogger Members Posts: 49
    Any Guru users.....



    How many different target names are available when self mapping....do they have a list of available targets ie. to bunker...carry bunker...to water...lay up...etc




    Here's the list as it is presented on the Guru:

    Green

    Bunker

    Water

    Lat Hazard

    End of Fwy

    Tree

    Lay up

    Rock

    Bridge

    200 Marker

    150 Marker

    100 Marker

    Feature



    I assume the "Feature" is for something you want to put in that is not covered by any of the other existing names.

    There is no way to name a particular feature that I can tell, but they do have a keyboard, so I don't see why that couldn't be something that was added in the future. They seem to be real open to suggestions.



    When self mapping, after you choose one of the features above, you also choose whether that feature is to the left, right, or center of the fairway. You don't have to, but it gives you the option. You can then mark the distance to the feature, and the distance to clear the feature. You don't have to mark both, you can mark one or the other or both.
  • 23muc23muc Posts: 85
    pflogger wrote on Jan 5 2008, 12:10 PM:
    Any Guru users.....



    How many different target names are available when self mapping....do they have a list of available targets ie. to bunker...carry bunker...to water...lay up...etc




    Here's the list as it is presented on the Guru:

    Green

    Bunker

    Water

    Lat Hazard

    End of Fwy

    Tree

    Lay up

    Rock

    Bridge

    200 Marker

    150 Marker

    100 Marker

    Feature



    I assume the "Feature" is for something you want to put in that is not covered by any of the other existing names.

    There is no way to name a particular feature that I can tell, but they do have a keyboard, so I don't see why that couldn't be something that was added in the future. They seem to be real open to suggestions.



    When self mapping, after you choose one of the features above, you also choose whether that feature is to the left, right, or center of the fairway. You don't have to, but it gives you the option. You can then mark the distance to the feature, and the distance to clear the feature. You don't have to mark both, you can mark one or the other or both.








    Excellent info....thank you very much! I am considering this unit but they sure don't have many courses mapped yet. Their customer support tells me that in February they are adding the ability to upload self mapped courses and the ability to edit downloaded courses which should rapidly increase their course database.



    Thanks again!
  • pfloggerpflogger Members Posts: 49
    How quickly do they map courses if you request??



    This seems like a another GPS unit to add to my list




    Their web site says you can get a course map in 7 days or less, but if you read larryinharlem's post, it looks like it could be less:


    It was funny... Golfguru customer service is amazingly responsive. I asked them to map a course and it took them only a few hours to get it done... it was available on their website before the day was over. Now that is service.
  • twigatwiga Members Posts: 10
    How many players can keep score on one GolfGuru? That is, is it more than one player?
  • pflogger wrote on Dec 9 2007, 09:42 AM:
    ClubHo,



    It's just little bit wider than a skycaddie, but much thinner. Like johnchuck said earlier, it will fit in your pocket comfortably. I hate anything in my pockets when I'm playing, but if it's a cart path only day, the guru goes in the pocket when I go out to my ball.




    If you are carrying it in your pocket how long does it take to resync and provide data after remoiving it from your pocket?
  • pfloggerpflogger Members Posts: 49
    How many players can keep score on one GolfGuru? That is, is it more than one player?


    Only one by the looks of it. I don't see anywhere in the preferences where the scorecard can be adjusted from one player. I suppose they would prefer your cart partner purchase their own.
  • larryinharlemlarryinharlem Members Posts: 34
    golfgame wrote on Jan 7 2008, 09:54 AM:
    pflogger wrote on Dec 9 2007, 09:42 AM:
    ClubHo,



    It's just little bit wider than a skycaddie, but much thinner. Like johnchuck said earlier, it will fit in your pocket comfortably. I hate anything in my pockets when I'm playing, but if it's a cart path only day, the guru goes in the pocket when I go out to my ball.




    If you are carrying it in your pocket how long does it take to resync and provide data after remoiving it from your pocket?






    The Golf Guru does not lose the satellite while in your pocket. Read the previous posts... this baby will receive sat info even in the house. While playing yesterday I checked sat info and it was tracking 10 sats. That is why it is so accurate. But you do not have to carry it in your pocket.. there are several cases available that fit it nicely.. I carry mine on my belt as I walk...



    To another poster: You can only keep one score.... I cannot imagine why you would want to keep more than your own score anyway...
  • Solutions EtceteraSolutions Etcetera Members Posts: 2,556
    larryinharlem wrote on Jan 7 2008, 10:00 AM:
    You can only keep one score....


    After the round, is there software that you can upload your score to? manage your stats? I guess I am asking if the software does anything but upload courses.



    Does the score card allow you to enter things like FIR, GIR, number of putts, etc.... or just the number of strokes?



    Woefully little info on the site.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    I posted this in my Neo thread, but I wanted to ask you Guru owners about it too. It has to do with the longevity of the company. My big concern with the Guru is if they will even be around in another couple of years. I mean, they are a small company, I'm sure the startup costs are huge, and they are giving away free subscriptions. How many of those $200 boxes are they really going to sell while competing with SkyGolf, Garmin, Sonnocaddie, iGolf, GulfBuddy, & the SureShot? Some of those players have deep pockets, and/or big-name endorsements. The Guru reminds me of the Commodore Amiga--superior to it's competition in every way, yet doomed to obsolescence through obscurity. Whatever advantages the Guru currently has, the other OEM's will pick up on them and integrate those features soon. If your GPS company goes out of business, then what do you have?



    PS-I hope this is not true for the Guru company, just an observation!
  • pfloggerpflogger Members Posts: 49
    edited Jan 7, 2008 #41
    After the round, is there software that you can upload your score to? manage your stats? I guess I am asking if the software does anything but upload courses.



    Does the score card allow you to enter things like FIR, GIR, number of putts, etc.... or just the number of strokes?




    I don't really care about scoring and stats, so I don't know what you are able to do with them once you enter them. There is an upload function in the desktop utility, but I have not tried it. I do know that the Guru keeps track of your score and stats through "day files" on the Guru. I suppose this is what you can upolad. I have a day file for every round I've played. I have kept score on it and kept stats once too. The stats lets you put in Putts, GIR (yes or no selection on each hole), and FIR, and it calculates Putts/GIR. It shows your percentage of FIR, GIR, and Putts/GIR as you progress through the holes. That's pretty much all I know on that subject.
  • rcncgolfrcncgolf Posts: 121
    Part of the website (I think under Compare, then explinations of comaprison) shows other functions that look like they are coming:

    http://www.gpsgolfguru.com/Products/compare_notes.php



    Look under game improvement section



    Highlights they show:

    Up to 6 players scores

    Capture statis to help game. (you can do gir's, firs, & putts now)

    multi-shot distance table ~ how far you are hitting your clubs

    Assign clubs to shots and distances at the end of the hole

    Stats Web Interface coming -



    Not sure how/when they will do this but sounds good for game improvement!



    Agree with all the positive feedback, for those who have found a good case for it - what are they?



    Looking forward to software updates!
  • rcncgolf wrote on Jan 8 2008, 07:45 AM:
    Part of the website (I think under Compare, then explinations of comaprison) shows other functions that look like they are coming:

    http://www.gpsgolfguru.com/Products/compare_notes.php



    Look under game improvement section



    Highlights they show:

    Up to 6 players scores

    Capture statis to help game. (you can do gir's, firs, & putts now)

    multi-shot distance table ~ how far you are hitting your clubs

    Assign clubs to shots and distances at the end of the hole

    Stats Web Interface coming -



    Not sure how/when they will do this but sounds good for game improvement!



    Agree with all the positive feedback, for those who have found a good case for it - what are they?



    Looking forward to software updates!




    Me to them



    I have one of these units coming. I thought that I would list some of my e-mail conversation with the company to give some insight on where they may or may not be going.



    Company reply



    We appreciate the inputs. We do listen here at Golf Guru. We are diligently working on documents and FAQ's to put up in the support page of our web site. We should have quite a bit of additional information, hopefully, by the end of this week. A full blown manual is in the works, but requires quite a bit of revision, as our software evolves.



    From me to them



    Thanks for the reply….I am looking forward to this unit. Previously I tried a SkyCadie which I did not like and a Golf Logix which I liked except for the face that there were not enough marked items between the tee and the green.



    There is a good thread going here which is how I became aware of you. Perhaps you are monitoring it. There seems to be some complaints about you web site. You had a lot of info on eBay about the unit that maybe you would want to include on your site.



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126150



    Their reply



    With respect to the Golf Logix unit and there not being enough marked items on the maps, some our our maps are rather sparse also. We are planning on offering course map editing for downloaded courses, but that feature is not due out until sometime in February. You should be able to add points when editing to a total of 30, similar to mapping a course yourself. This feature is one of our number one priorities for a new software release, and is on schedule for a Feb. release.



    My response



    This all sounds great…if you don’t mind I will post your answer here on the forum. That is unless you would rather that I did not? Pls advise.





    Their reply





    We don't mind if you post the answer to the forum. Although we have a few shortcomings with documents, and some features at the moment, we are very open about where we are, and where we're headed.



    Thanks,

    Golf Guru Sales
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    Well, if there's one area they can beat out the competition it's in customer service. SkyGolf is infamous for having poor CS, and I'm not having much luck so far with the iGolf folks. It's a shame their website is so bad. Hey Guru people, if you need a good web developer, let me know. We could get whip that thing into shape in no time.
  • bjp1bjp1 Silky Members Posts: 818
    edited Jan 8, 2008 #45
    This looks like a very interesting product, certainly with a good price point and excellent features.



    Along the lines of the long-term viability of the company, the "Patent Litigation" page under the "Company" section of their website is worth viewing. The external links are a very interesting read (time permitting). The company's open litigation involving most of the major handheld golf GPS providers is impressive. Obviously, the big fish is SkyGolf.



    http://golf-patents.com/2007/12/20/skyhawk...t-my-words.aspx



    Makes me wonder how far the legal process with go, and what financial impact that will have on the company's health.



    Brian
    **Work in Progress**
  • ApexGrindApexGrind Members Posts: 365
    edited Jan 9, 2008 #46
    larryinharlem wrote on Jan 7 2008, 10:00 AM:
    To another poster: You can only keep one score.... I cannot imagine why you would want to keep more than your own score anyway...




    Wagers? Comparison at the club house? In our club tournaments we use the scorer and attest thing where everyone scores someone else and you attest to it. I use Intelligolf on my phone and copy to a card in the clubhouse. Also nothing better in the rain than an electronic score card. You either have a waterproof case or seal it in a clear baggy so you can operate it without taking it out.


    stevestrike wrote on Jan 7 2008, 04:22 PM:
    If your GPS company goes out of business, then what do you have?




    Probably a unit without a warranty. GPS is freely available to anyone. I'm not sure what the warranty period is but probably not more than a year? if that. Downloading new courses and updates may no longer be available but it's not like you have a huge investment in the unit.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    Guru owners, can you tell me where the course files are kept after you download them? In other words, are they files on your computer's hard drive, or are they downloaded from the website every time you need them?
  • randy6675randy6675 Posts: 135 ✭✭
    The unit connects to a utility on your computer. Downloaded courses (20 max) are saved onto the unit itself. Currently, they are not saved on your computer, so if you need to reload, you have to download again. This company is rapidly evolving based upon user's thoughts. A lot is being planned, and I think I saw where they are considering making the courses resident on the computer, but I am not sure of that. So far, I am very happy with the unit.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    So where do courses go when you map them yourself? Or, in the future, when you edit the custom points on a downloaded map?
  • randy6675randy6675 Posts: 135 ✭✭
    Currently, they reside on the unit. If something happens to lose memory, the course is gone. Again, I am pretty sure they are working on a system where you can upload your self-mapped and/or edited courses so that other users can benefit. Best thing is to give them a call. I think you will find them very responsive, I know I have. No hidden agenda here, just a satisfied customer.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    Thanks, Randy. I hope they are able to come through with all that they are promising to do in the future. Editing downloaded courses, which they said should be ready by February, is a big deal. Being able to save and back those courses up is huge too.
  • BrockBrock Members Posts: 209
    not meaning to be a naysayer but seems to be a lot of negatives for something so highly touted initially... biggest thing is that you are happy with your choice in spite of the shortfalls becoming apparent.



    I liked one or two better than the SkyGolf version but when I looked at likelihood the company would be around in couple years if I have a problem...the accuracy and money spent on the process for mapping courses....and the number of units out there versus the number of bad reviews....the SkyGolf and Sonocaddie were pretty much at the top. I hope they make it as there is nothing wrong with healthy competition as it will drive prices down and increase the perks of each system. Good luck.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    Brock, SkyGolf has their fair share of customer service complaints, and there's no guarantee they will be around next year either. My only point is, if there was one clear cut winner, we wouldn't have threads like this. It's nice to hear other people's experience with the products to get insight into the product. Companies don't advertise their shortcomings, that's for sure.
  • BrockBrock Members Posts: 209
    oh you misunderstood my point...I know SG has complaints...I was just saying that a thousand complaints from a company that sells a hundred thousand units is much better than from a company that sells 20,000 units. it is just the way things are. Also I was pointing out with SG getting so much of the market share and being a partner with Magellan GPS's that the likelihood of them going out of business is little to none compared to some of the smaller companies with big promises that are finding out that giving the customer EVERYTHING they want is far more expensive and difficult if you really want to do it top notch.



    I acknowledge there are a couple systems better than SkyGolf out there but when you look at the other aspects it does leave one or maybe two others out there that can really compete like Sonocaddie or iGolf. I think someone already mentioned it here earlier or another thread...kind of like the Beta vs VHS. Beta was better in most ways but VHS had the market share, was producing tens of thousands more machines a week than Beta did all year...and in the end it was too big of a mountain to overcome for Beta and it died on the vine before it reached all its goals.



    The only comment I made a little bit pointedly was that at the beginning of the thread it was mentioned all the good things the company did in this device...then read of problems and now it appears from posts that some options were removed until later time due to software flaws, design, etc which we will probably never know. My overall point is that sometimes it is better and safer to go with a Known Entity even with its known flaws as you know what you are getting up front and it has stabilized enough to be a pretty **** reliable purchase. That was it. Not a slam... just a fact. ****, I still like the SonoCaddie better except for one or two things but when I truly compared them side by side the positives of the others did not overshadow the SG series.....and the negatives of the SG were many times still better than the others for what I wanted in a device.



    Good luck...and yes competition and dialog are great.....ideas that we discuss will help someone else make an informed decision before buying and not be surprised by things that we have already experienced. Have a good weekend.
  • Solutions EtceteraSolutions Etcetera Members Posts: 2,556
    Brock wrote on Jan 13 2008, 05:24 AM:
    ...kind of like the Beta vs VHS. Beta was better in most ways but VHS had the market share, was producing tens of thousands more machines a week than Beta did all year...and in the end it was too big of a mountain to overcome for Beta and it died on the vine


    Apples and oranges I'm afraid. One format replaced the other because the studios decided on VHS. The main reason folks used VCR was to rent/buy movies.



    It will be the same with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, the content availability will make the consumers' choice.



    This is no way relates to the GPS. Plus I believe all of the current vendors are pretty small businesses and would be in trouble should any major player choose to address this market.



    I still think the current round of these things are woefully behind in feature sets and software quality when compared to other GPS markets. A clear sign that the current players are low on resources. And now we have a couple of the newer players marketing their units based on what they MIGHT do next month or next year. That's laughable.



    Small shops indeed.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    You don't think SkyGolf is a major player? What about Garmin? They've got money.



    Brock's comparison might not have been spot-on, but you still get this point. It's not about more or better features, it's just about which company survives.



    Personally, I just ordered a Guru, and I'm looking forward to putting it through it's paces. I'm also looking forward to trying the new SG2.5
  • Solutions EtceteraSolutions Etcetera Members Posts: 2,556
    edited Jan 13, 2008 #57
    stevestrike wrote on Jan 13 2008, 08:15 AM:
    You don't think SkyGolf is a major player? What about Garmin? They've got money.


    First of all... Garmin is not in the business. They simply sell about $70 worth of their oem hardware to GolfLogix who flashes an eeprom with their software and sells it for $350. I don't know if they do anything else but as far as thier golf GPS product is concerned, GolfLogix is little more than a VAR. Definitely a small shop. If they go away you have a $350 little green paperweight.



    If we consider this market consumer electronics than no, I do not consider SG a major player either (more of a garage operation in comparison to major players in this market). They call themselves one, and it is pretty sad as their feature set has essentially remained stagnant since their introduction with nothing but minor hardware (which of course they have had nothing to do with) enhancements. But it is very hard to find their true size as they are private (I am guessing a VC startup).



    At least as far as GL and SG are concerned, I am reasonably certain they had nothing to do with the design of the hardware, and they obviously can't have anybody in house working on the software as virtually NOTHING has been added in the last year in the way of new functionality. That is just unbelievably sad and unheard of in the electronics industry.



    So they buy the hardware and farm out the software development (probably to india) and what is left? Some folks mapping courses, and lots of marketing and distribution, which obviously is receiving the bulk of their operating budget because it is clear R&D hasn't seen a dime for a long long time.
  • randy6675randy6675 Posts: 135 ✭✭
    Brock, I agree with your thought process. I had the same type of misgivings before I ordered mine. What sold me was the responsiveness of their customer service, and the "Green Sense" feature. If they add nothing further, I felt that the $235 was well spent. If they add all the features they say, then it is a great deal. As someone above said, if they are gone in a year, you still have the unit. That is of course assuming the unit still works, but since I have a gps card that I have used in my PDA for 3 years now, I feel these chipsets are pretty robust. Finally, in the grand scheme of things, that amount of money just isn't that much. A lot of people spend double that for a driver several times a year.
  • stevestrikestevestrike Members Posts: 1,956
    edited Jan 13, 2008 #59
    Solutions Etcetera wrote on Jan 13 2008, 01:01 PM:
    First of all... Garmin is not in the business. They simply sell about $70 worth of their oem hardware to GolfLogix who flashes an eeprom with their software and sells it for $350. I don't know if they do anything else but as far as thier golf GPS product is concerned, GolfLogix is little more than a VAR. Definitely a small shop. If they go away you have a $350 little green paperweight.



    If we consider this market consumer ....snip..... (I am guessing a VC startup).



    At least as far as GL and SG are concerned, I am reasonably certain ...snip.....So they buy the hardware and farm out the software development (probably to india) and what is left? .....snip.....which obviously is receiving the bulk of their operating budget because it is clear R&D hasn't seen a dime for a long long time.
    That's great speculation on your part, but do you have any facts to back up those statements about Garmin and SkyGolf?



    Secondly, I'm sure you know that the GPS continues to function even if the company is out of business. You just cannot get new courses unless you map them yourself. Not ideal, but not "paperweight" time either.
  • pfloggerpflogger Members Posts: 49
    I'm with those that say what's the worst that happens if Golf Guru or any of the others goes out of business. Maybe you lose access to their course maps, and software updates. Unless my Guru breaks and I can't get service, I'm not really out anything. I've mapped several courses on my own and those courses will always be mine. What I was looking for was a fast, reliable, consistent rangefinder where distances didn't **** out numerous times per round, or give readings that are off by 10 yards. Accuracy is what I found in the Guru, and distances never go blank or read 999.



    It's funny, a buddy of mine who owns a GL unit wanted to compare the accuracy of the GL to the Guru. I also the old SG with me so I pulled it out and we were running all three. The Guru was showing distances that were 10 yards off from both the SG and the GL. Which was right? As we approached the green, we figured we'd see what they read when we got to the front of the green. I had never really noticed this before because who uses the things inside of 50 or 100 yards anyway. Well the GL went into a less than 30 yards from green mode "< 30 yds", and the SG, at about 8 or so yards out said "At Green". I walked up to the fringe of the green, and the Guru said, and get this, "0 Near". Not too bad. You think those others go into the "close to green mode" cuz they don't really want you to know exactly how far off they can be? Who knows?



    I got my unit for $210.00 off eBay. Compared to the SG4 or the GL, if GPSGolfGuru goes out of business tomorrow, as long as the thing keeps running, I'm way better off! They won't be taking the GPS satellites with them. I got no problem mappng courses myself.
  • Solutions EtceteraSolutions Etcetera Members Posts: 2,556
    edited Jan 13, 2008 #61
    stevestrike wrote on Jan 13 2008, 09&#58;14 AM:
    ]That's great speculation on your part, but do you have any facts to back up those statements about Garmin and SkyGolf?


    Yes it is speculation. But I have a GolfLogix unit based on the Garmin eTrex hardware, and I know they offer OEM units, and I know the SG3 & 4 are Explorist series from Magellan. And I know that the only software updates have been bug fixes.



    As a software developer, we are always adding new features in the course of development, even if it is only a bug fix release. Of course, if we farmed our development out, our contract would include bug fixes down the road, but nothing else. Do the math.
    Secondly, I'm sure you know that the GPS continues to function even if the company is out of business. You just cannot get new courses unless you map them yourself. Not ideal, but not "paperweight" time either.


    No, I don't know that Steve... do you? I'll tell you what I do know. The downloaded courses on my computer have encrypted expiration keys in them. They're easy to identify as the files are simple XML (probably why they're encrypted). My only conclusion is that when the subscription expires, so do they.
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