Cough it up, please .... (Mr. Hogan re-gripping?)

[hoganfan924]

That's the whole point, BHSP. Tiger doesn't look any different to Hogan in how much of the right hand is visible in transition. Make that same Tiger video only filmed in 16 fps, super grainy high 8 film, translate it to low resolution digital and you'll be telling people that Tiger is a re-gripper. This is why to appreciate Hogan's nuances, he must be compared to dozens of other good players. It's the same as all of these people talking about how "everyone swings left so it's meaningless" Sure, everyone swings left [b][i]eventually[/i][/b] but not in the same way as Hogan. If you spend all or most of your time only looking at Hogan swings, you lose perspective on what is typical. So when you think you've found something, you better start comparing.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357332341' post='6168803']
That's the whole point, BHSP. Tiger doesn't look any different to Hogan in how much of the right hand is visible in transition. Make that same Tiger video only filmed in 16 fps, super grainy high 8 film, translate it to low resolution digital and you'll be telling people that Tiger is a re-gripper. This is why to appreciate Hogan's nuances, he must be compared to dozens of other good players. It's the same as all of these people talking about how "everyone swings left so it's meaningless" Sure, everyone swings left [b][i]eventually[/i][/b] but not in the same way as Hogan. If you spend all or most of your time only looking at Hogan swings, you lose perspective on what is typical. So when you think you've found something, you better start comparing.
[/quote]

Agreed. And yes, control group comparisons already completed.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1357332744' post='6168845']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357332341' post='6168803']
That's the whole point, BHSP. Tiger doesn't look any different to Hogan in how much of the right hand is visible in transition. Make that same Tiger video only filmed in 16 fps, super grainy high 8 film, translate it to low resolution digital and you'll be telling people that Tiger is a re-gripper. This is why to appreciate Hogan's nuances, he must be compared to dozens of other good players. It's the same as all of these people talking about how "everyone swings left so it's meaningless" Sure, everyone swings left [b][i]eventually[/i][/b] but not in the same way as Hogan. If you spend all or most of your time only looking at Hogan swings, you lose perspective on what is typical. So when you think you've found something, you better start comparing.
[/quote]

Agreed. And yes, control group comparisons already completed.
[/quote]

Oh ya? How about a control group study of BALL FLIGHT!

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1357319782' post='6167443']
No offense taken, I just don't agree. I see what you are referring too. But I can make a five lesson's grip and get the same look at that angle in a mirror. It looks like the face can be anywhere from 20-45* open right there. The right hand didn't cover the ball yet, IMO you will always see a bit of thumb from that perspective.
[/quote]

Hogan's grip is pretty much the same as placing the webbing of both thumbs on top of each other.

Hogan's hands opposed each other more than most people.

Watch that right wrist stop rising and the left wrist get above it.

[Fade]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1356979634' post='6144025']
CLEAR pictures or it didn't happen.
[/quote]

Despite reading the thread, and now knowing what to look for, I second this motion.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1357394799' post='6172473']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1356979634' post='6144025']
CLEAR pictures or it didn't happen.
[/quote]


Despite reading the thread, and now knowing what to look for, I second this motion.
[/quote]

Best place for you to look would be in photos. And not just Hogan.

[dairic]

Here's a gif that makes it appear that his right palm is off prior to reaching the top of his swing and his first move down is to slam his palm into his left thumb. These are illusions based on lighting conditions.

[attachment=1476859:Rightelbowmove.gif]

[dairic]

No shadows in this one and right palm is firmly in place

[attachment=1476861:hoganrighthandattop.jpg]

[dairic]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357332341' post='6168803']
That's the whole point, BHSP. Tiger doesn't look any different to Hogan in how much of the right hand is visible in transition. Make that same Tiger video only filmed in 16 fps, super grainy high 8 film, translate it to low resolution digital and you'll be telling people that Tiger is a re-gripper. This is why to appreciate Hogan's nuances, he must be compared to dozens of other good players. It's the same as all of these people talking about how "everyone swings left so it's meaningless" Sure, everyone swings left [b][i]eventually[/i][/b] but not in the same way as Hogan. If you spend all or most of your time only looking at Hogan swings, you lose perspective on what is typical. So when you think you've found something, you better start comparing.
[/quote]

HF I'm asking because I know you've been looking at this stuff for years now. Can you think of any place where hogan talked or wrote about swinging left. I've read about him discussing swinging right but never left.

Sorry to be off topic a bit guys but I just couldn't pass the opportunity because its something I've been lookin into lately.

[ej002]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357405178' post='6173075']
Here's a gif that makes it appear that his right palm is off prior to reaching the top of his swing and his first move down is to slam his palm into his left thumb. These are illusions based on lighting conditions.

[attachment=1476859:Rightelbowmove.gif]
[/quote]
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357405687' post='6173117']
No shadows in this one and right palm is firmly in place

[attachment=1476861:hoganrighthandattop.jpg]
[/quote]

Those look identical to me minus the shadowing. Otherwise the same gap is there.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357407460' post='6173231']

Can you think of any place where hogan talked or wrote about swinging left. I've read about him discussing swinging right but never left.

Sorry to be off topic a bit guys but I just couldn't pass the opportunity because its something I've been lookin into lately.
[/quote]

In 5L, pg 100, he talks about driving the hands straight ahead. "As the player enters the impact area and the hands start to pass the right hip, it is almost as if his hands were holding a ball as THEY MOVE TOWARD THE TARGET." Where the target is about 4-5 yds ahead at belt height on the flight line.

[dairic]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357430337' post='6174915']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357407460' post='6173231']
Can you think of any place where hogan talked or wrote about swinging left. I've read about him discussing swinging right but never left.

Sorry to be off topic a bit guys but I just couldn't pass the opportunity because its something I've been lookin into lately.
[/quote]

In 5L, pg 100, he talks about driving the hands straight ahead. "As the player enters the impact area and the hands start to pass the right hip, it is almost as if his hands were holding a ball as THEY MOVE TOWARD THE TARGET." Where the target is about 4-5 yds ahead at belt height on the flight line.
[/quote]

very cool MJ.

Another one in 5L pg 87 "When the golfer is on the correct downswing plane, he has to hit from the inside out"

So far we have an inside-out and down-the-target-line comment.

Can anyone find a "swing left" comment?

[guisician]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357433185' post='6175167']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357430337' post='6174915']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357407460' post='6173231']
Can you think of any place where hogan talked or wrote about swinging left. I've read about him discussing swinging right but never left.

Sorry to be off topic a bit guys but I just couldn't pass the opportunity because its something I've been lookin into lately.
[/quote]

In 5L, pg 100, he talks about driving the hands straight ahead. "As the player enters the impact area and the hands start to pass the right hip, it is almost as if his hands were holding a ball as THEY MOVE TOWARD THE TARGET." Where the target is about 4-5 yds ahead at belt height on the flight line.
[/quote]

very cool MJ.

Another one in 5L pg 87 "When the golfer is on the correct downswing plane, he has to hit from the inside out"

So far we have an inside-out and down-the-target-line comment.

Can anyone find a "swing left" comment?
[/quote]

Sorry to remain off-topic, but if the counter-clockwise (for righties) hip / shoulder / torso turn is the "active" element in the downswing and the arms / hands remain passive, isn't everything going to go left post-impact no matter what, regardless of what we try to "feel"?

Please take this probable oversimplification with as many grains of salt as you like; as a 17 trying to understand and improve, I really appreciate the discussions here.

[dairic]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1357503800' post='6179041']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357433185' post='6175167']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357430337' post='6174915']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357407460' post='6173231']
Can you think of any place where hogan talked or wrote about swinging left. I've read about him discussing swinging right but never left.

Sorry to be off topic a bit guys but I just couldn't pass the opportunity because its something I've been lookin into lately.
[/quote]

In 5L, pg 100, he talks about driving the hands straight ahead. "As the player enters the impact area and the hands start to pass the right hip, it is almost as if his hands were holding a ball as THEY MOVE TOWARD THE TARGET." Where the target is about 4-5 yds ahead at belt height on the flight line.
[/quote]

very cool MJ.

Another one in 5L pg 87 "When the golfer is on the correct downswing plane, he has to hit from the inside out"

So far we have an inside-out and down-the-target-line comment.

Can anyone find a "swing left" comment?
[/quote]

Sorry to remain off-topic, but if the counter-clockwise (for righties) hip / shoulder / torso turn is the "active" element in the downswing and the arms / hands remain passive, isn't everything going to go left post-impact no matter what, regardless of what we try to "feel"?

Please take this probable oversimplification with as many grains of salt as you like; as a 17 trying to understand and improve, I really appreciate the discussions here.
[/quote]

I agree with you...everything is going left. But in Hogan's case it seems to be going left differently than most, so his swing is often described as "swing left" or "low left" or "left release". I personally don't think the way his shaft works left post impact is an intentional move base on some swing left intent. I've been wrong many times before, so I though I'd ask if anyone knows if he discussed this anywhere. Everything I've read that he wrote seems to indicate that he wasn't very concern about "left".

Again...sorry to detract from the original topic

[tembolo1284]

so we still thinking he lost his grip in the swing?

[ej002]

@PingG10Guy

I still don't really see it, but I a more open minded based on something you said in the SVS swing debacle thread, about straightening an externally rotated arm. You said something about elbows getting closer together, which relates to an argument 8 and SvS just had about internal rotation of the left arm. If in transition, Hogan's first move was to externally rotate both shoulders, that could cause the bow in his left wrist, his lay off move, and probably the spread on the right grip that you see. BTW, this idea (not saying I agree, just an idea) fits neatly with Moehogan's idea that at impact his grip is more spread than at start.

[ej002]

IMO, it's why Mr. H appeared to have a somewhat strong left hand and a very weak right one at address. He was giving himself the space and range of motion to accomplish this dynamic.And NO ... you do NOT get from the pic on the left to the one one the right just by moving the butt end of the grip three inches closer to the target. It's done with the grip pressures that Mr. H refers to in 5L ... using the last three fingers of the left hand and the middle two fingers of the right.

 

 

Hopefully the pics show up.

[tembolo1284]

Great thread!