Hogan did THIS and Hogan did THAT

[guisician]

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1388384209' post='8366295']
[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1388383485' post='8366269']
[quote name='playa' timestamp='1388381326' post='8366211']
[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1356549611' post='6118917']
Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.
[/quote]
This is probably the most sensible post I've read on this forum, but I doubt it will be well received I find this forum to be almost like a cult. And like every cult to be a part you need to have blind faith to be a believer. 'Mister' Hogans secret was a very slick marketing ploy to boost further book sales, but somehow grew to it's current mythical status. It isn't that different to Jack Hamm and his promise of extra yards. BOOOOOOMMMMM BABY!!!!
[/quote]

Flamebait -- feed not the troll.
[/quote]
It's an honest opinion. No flame.
[/quote]

Sorry. Comparing Hogan to Jack Hamm in a post on the "Hogan's Heroes Swing Forum" seemed like flame bait to me. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to put on my white Hogan cap, burn a length of old grip leather at my practice mat / altar and recite today's reading from the 2nd lesson...

[Tipsy McHooker]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1388430751' post='8368587']
Jack's swing is not in the same ball park.
[/quote]

I'm Assuming you mean Hogan's swing looks prettier aesthetically? Pretty much indisputable that jack was the best golfer ever with that awesome pin seeking fade(Made less "pretty" by flying right arm) and 18 majors with Competition like Palmer, Player,Trevino, Watson, Weiskopf, Miller, Irwin, Hubert Green, Seve,Norman,Sanders, Jacklin, Billy Casper, Wadkins etc. Although i will give you that Jack was a way better putter than Hogan, which led to more majors and the most runner ups in majors in history of golf. See if you can find HBO " Back Nine at Cherry Hills" documentary. About Hogan, Palmer, and Nicklaus all in contention down the stretch on final day of 1960 US open. Really gives you insight into each man in their different swings/body types, mental toughness, upbringing, dispositions. It is also very cool how it was Hogan's last legitamate chance at a major after a great career with his skills fading/age creeping up on him. Palmer in his prime w/ his good looks/swagger/popularity w masses, and Jack at the beginning of his career about to take over the game.

[tembolo1284]

Great post Tipsy!

[ej002]

Jack played to miss. Hogan got angry at a miss. Different ball parks.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1389317975' post='8431927']
Jack played to miss. Hogan got angry at a miss. Different ball parks.
[/quote]

True...looks like Jack got better results right?

[Hoganstriker]

The fact remains that even if one considers Hogan a superior ballstriker that Jack was smarter and better at golf. It's my opinion but I believe Jack managed all aspects the best of anybody.
Hogan wasn't developing callouses for 8 hours on the putting green after all.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323394' post='8432567']
The fact remains that even if one considers Hogan a superior ballstriker that Jack was smarter and better at golf. It's my opinion but I believe Jack managed all aspects the best of anybody.
Hogan wasn't developing callouses for 8 hours on the putting green after all.
[/quote]

Jack might have been consistently better at scoring because of his work on the greens...... We should also consider that Jack was also MUCH better than Hogan in his younger years so got a bit of a head start......... and finally we must definitely consider that Hogan was near crippled after his car accident in 1949 and couldn't play more (and frequently much less) than 10 tournaments a year, and could only compete in 3 of the 4 Majors per annum due to his physical impairments.

[guisician]

1- Nicklaus himself has spoken of learning quite a bit about how to study a course and think his way around it from observing Hogan when they played together (at the 1960 US Open, for one).

2- No amount of practice on the greens could help the fact that post-accident Hogan actually had to wait for his damaged left eye to focus before he pulled the putter back.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323394' post='8432567']
The fact remains that even if one considers Hogan a superior ballstriker that Jack was smarter and better at golf. It's my opinion but I believe Jack managed all aspects the best of anybody.
Hogan wasn't developing callouses for 8 hours on the putting green after all.
[/quote]

Good post. Jack was the better dude.

[Pinsplitter59]

Many years ago when I got keen on golf I was always trying to hit good shots when I played. So it was quite a while before I broke 80. I slowly learned, for me, scoring is about controlling your misses, not hitting perfect shots.
I would suggest and guess that this is the difference between Hogan and Nicklaus (at a much higher level of course).
Hogan, let's say, was always trying to hit the perfect shot and if he did it correctly to his high standards then a good score would be the natural result, this is the perfectionist's curse. I think you would have to say Hogan was a perfectionist.
Nicklaus, I think, was all about controlling his misses and getting the ball in the hole, evidence being his irons play strategy as he explained it in his book, i.e. aim 3' left of the pin with a fade, if you hit it straight (error) you have a 3' foot putt, if you fade it twice too much you have a 3' putt from the other side, if you hit it perfect its in the hole.

I don't have any idea about Hogan's mind set really, but I think Nicklaus's greatest strength was his "mind power", I imagine him standing over a really important putt saying to himself "this has to go in", all mechanical and methodical thoughts would be put aside and he would force himself to hit the ball in the hole, (e.g. 72nd hole Duel in the Sun Open Championship against Tom Watson).
A lesser player would focus on method and execution and the "force of intention" would be lost.

I notice this difference myself in matchplay particularly, sometimes I hit a good shot under pressure because "I have to", not because of making a perfect swing, often afterwards I think to myself I have no idea how I did that.
Its like the conscious mind forces the use of all the unconscious memories and the action is actually done "unconsciously".
(A LOT of the time it doesn't happen of course because of my lousy golf swing, but the better your mechanics the more you can forget about them).

[Tipsy McHooker]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389985950' post='8479079']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323394' post='8432567']
The fact remains that even if one considers Hogan a superior ballstriker that Jack was smarter and better at golf. It's my opinion but I believe Jack managed all aspects the best of anybody.
Hogan wasn't developing callouses for 8 hours on the putting green after all.
[/quote]

Good post. Jack was the better dude.
[/quote]

Agreed....also Hogan should've been spending more time "digging something out of the dirt" on the practice putting green. he had ballstriking down pat...practice the weakness. Also, he was not an above average putter before the crash...always said it was the weakest part of his game. I read an article in which he stated he thought putting should be regulated differently than the tee to green scorewise...kind of a wacky idea. Two foot drive counts the same as a two foot putt.

[playa]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389985950' post='8479079']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323394' post='8432567']
The fact remains that even if one considers Hogan a superior ballstriker that Jack was smarter and better at golf. It's my opinion but I believe Jack managed all aspects the best of anybody.
Hogan wasn't developing callouses for 8 hours on the putting green after all.
[/quote]

Good post. Jack was the better dude.
[/quote]
I think if both at their best Hogan would drum Jack at US Opens, but Jack would have the edge at Augusta. Overall I think during their primes Hogan was more dominant, but Jack had the longevity to amass a better record.

[Hoganstriker]

Why would you say Hogan would beat Jack in a U.S. Open? Umm let's see they both drive straight but Jack's longer. Jack has the edge in putting obviously without a doubt.
Long irons Jack hit em high and could hold greens.
I would probably give Hogan scoring iron and wedge play but I think Jacks better putting totally cancels that out. Slight edge in scoring irons doesn't mean that much in my opinion.
Drum is a strong word.

[tembolo1284]

Jack was a better and longer driver and long and mid iron player, and a better putter.

Hogan had better short irons and pitching and chipping maybe?

How does that mean hogan would drum nicklaus?

[ej002]

I always thought Jack was mediocre (for tour standards) from 100 yds and in.

[Tipsy McHooker]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1389407391' post='8439023']
1- Nicklaus himself has spoken of learning quite a bit about how to study a course and think his way around it from observing Hogan when they played together (at the 1960 US Open, for one).

2- No amount of practice on the greens could help the fact that post-accident Hogan actually had to wait for his damaged left eye to focus before he pulled the putter back.
[/quote]




Did he have the same problem focusing his eye on a 200 yard one iron? He seemed to strike the ball very well with his woods and irons after the bus crash. Seems like it would be same pulling that club back as pulling putter back. He was a great ballstriker, not a great putter ever in his career...pre or post accident. Nicklaus gained insight only by watching Hogan play. He attempted to talk to him, but was gruffly rebuffed by the wee ice mon. He (Hogan)also referred to him as Fat a**/Fat Jack/The Dumb Kid , etc. There are also stories of Hogan being too busy to talk to Nick Faldo, who absolutely idolized him since childhood. As Arnold Palmer said in the Cherry Hills Documentary "Hogan was a great guy.....Wait , let me rephrase that. Hogan was a great golfer, not a great guy."

[Tipsy McHooker]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1394074929' post='8808393']
Why would you say Hogan would beat Jack in a U.S. Open? Umm let's see they both drive straight but Jack's longer. Jack has the edge in putting obviously without a doubt.
Long irons Jack hit em high and could hold greens.
I would probably give Hogan scoring iron and wedge play but I think Jacks better putting totally cancels that out. Slight edge in scoring irons doesn't mean that much in my opinion.
Drum is a strong word.
[/quote]

Agreed sir...hows he(Hogan) going to beat a better putter and long/mid iron player that is driving it 30 yards further in the fairway every hole?? Hogan's texas pal Demeret handed Ben his a** at the Masters 3 times.

[Hstead]

Bobby Jones watched a lot of Hogan's golf, he also witnessed Jack and had this to say about Jack - "[color=#003399][size=3][background=rgb(237, 241, 247)]“Jack Nicklaus is playing an entirely different game, and one which I'm not even familiar with.”[/background][/size][/color]

[size=3][background=rgb(237, 241, 247)]I do not think anyone ever would "drum" Jack in his prime, not even Tiger in 2000. For guys that watched Jack in his hey day, he hit it a mile and way straighter than Tiger, and he putted just as well then too. Tiger might have had a better short game, but Jack said he never practiced his short game because he didn't need to. [/background][/size]

[tylerdurden]

I don't disagree that jack would beat hogan in a us open (because he did)

But fwiw, jack was quoted saying hogan was the best ball striker he ever saw, "by far"

And jack watched hogan practice not the other way around

[tembolo1284]

I think hogan didn't watch nicklaus practice because he was older already and set in his ways....also nicklaus had that funny right elbow move that probably struck hogan as bad. I guarantee you though if they were the same age and nicklaus still came out and had that driving and iron game and made mince meat out of hogan more often than not then hogan would certainly have watched him practice.

[tylerdurden]

I dunno man. Jack said hogan was the best ball strker by far so I don't really get it

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1394454509' post='8838523']
I dunno man. Jack said hogan was the best ball strker by far so I don't really get it
[/quote]

Hard to tell with Jack because he's always going to be polite in public. The dude has double the major record of Hogan. Would be curious what
he says about his competitors and other players in private.

[ej002]

When he made the statement it was in reaction to whether Tiger was the best striker. If Jack was trying to be courteous he would have said yes, Tiger is the best he saw. No need in stroking Hogan's dead ego.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1394464968' post='8839567']
When he made the statement it was in reaction to whether Tiger was the best striker. If Jack was trying to be courteous he would have said yes, Tiger is the best he saw. No need in stroking Hogan's dead ego.
[/quote]

I remember...maybe he's paid by Hogan's conspirators to keep the myth going? Could that be Hogan's secret?

[dairic]

Yet another reason for why humans need to invent time travel.

Tiger vs Hogan vs Jack in the Morning
Listen to John Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in the afternoon
Drink wine with Socrates in the evening after having dinner with a young Brigitte Bardot

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1394472263' post='8840459']
Yet another reason for why humans need to invent time travel.

Tiger vs Hogan vs Jack in the Morning
Listen to John Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in the afternoon
Drink wine with Socrates in the evening after having dinner with a young Brigitte Bardot
[/quote]

How do you say, "Stay away from my butt." in ancient Greek?

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1394473249' post='8840559']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1394472263' post='8840459']
Yet another reason for why humans need to invent time travel.

Tiger vs Hogan vs Jack in the Morning
Listen to John Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in the afternoon
Drink wine with Socrates in the evening after having dinner with a young Brigitte Bardot
[/quote]

How do you say, "Stay away from my butt." in ancient Greek?
[/quote]

ouch! yeah, maybe I should about this again.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1394475493' post='8840809']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1394473249' post='8840559']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1394472263' post='8840459']
Yet another reason for why humans need to invent time travel.

Tiger vs Hogan vs Jack in the Morning
Listen to John Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in the afternoon
Drink wine with Socrates in the evening after having dinner with a young Brigitte Bardot
[/quote]

How do you say, "Stay away from my butt." in ancient Greek?
[/quote]

ouch! yeah, maybe I should about this again.
[/quote]

I can't even go back in time to watch hogan and jones...they'll yell beaner at me and throw me in jail or something.