Hogan's imagery of elbow's close together...

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1363926927' post='6662351']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1281219351' post='2624906']
I see a lot of people believing that they have to keep the elbows together... In my understanding I allways believed he was meaning to keep the pressure under your armpits alive... [attachment=638255:realdeall.jpg] Even on the picture on the right you can see he pressures the upper arms to the the ripcage... The most evidence what he really meant are in this video: <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_AmPuzgBXEM&hl=de_DE&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_AmPuzgBXEM&hl=de_DE&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object> This remembers me allways to a figure iceskater - the more the arms are closer to the body - the faster you spin or turn.... What do you think....Chris
[/quote]

Training wheels, let the left arm roll automatically, you just made an automatic swingers swivel. That method is the easiest repeatable swivel for a novice. The swivel must be automated for consistency.
[/quote]

By automated you mean just practice it until it becomes automatic? Or you have something else in mind?

[tembolo1284]

What a great thread.

[flybub]

It's funny because I've been thinking about the right elbow during the swing and it originated from my bowling career. I was raised in a bowling center (my family owns 2 centers) and I have always been taught by my father who was a great bowler for most of his life. For a righty the crease in my right arm (opposite my elbow) must face my target otherwise my elbow flies out and I pull my shot. So in my golf swing I feel like my crease should be facing almost perpendicular to my target line that in turn does 2 things in my mind. (1) it keeps the handle of the club ahead of the face and (2) it prevents the right elbow getting stuck. If that crease is facing the target then I'm almost certain to flip at the bottom of the swing. Now that probably doesn't work for everyone but that thought has certainly helped me.

[tembolo1284]

Love that pic of butch and tiger.

[lonestar48]

I couldn't wait to add to this thread after keying in on something recently that has held up with every club in the bag so far.

Since we are all built differently, with different muscle structure, flexibility, etc., the important thing to remember is what Hogan says he [i]felt. [/i]Having the elbow pits pointing straight up is not the key...the key is twisting, pronating, whatever you need to do to [i]feel [/i]like those elbows are connected. Video of your swing may show something entirely different than what your body feels, especially if you're not used to it yet.

I tried to exaggerate the pronated, twisted feel of the right arm while keeping the upper arms connected to my side and have begun striking the ball really well. For me, I feel like I'm twisting my right arm open (palm up) as much as I can to the top of my backswing, then hitting down and through hard. Working great so far but its hard to tell the difference in most before and after video, even though to me it feels like the difference should be night and day!

[limcauco]

Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?

[lonestar48]

[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1401243995' post='9378903']
Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?
[/quote]
I'm not as concerned with the forearm as I am with the upper arm. Try to feel like you're pushing your right elbow down a little while rotating your upper arm clockwise as far as you can (looking down at ball perspective). Keep the club on plane and keep both upper arms connected to your body. Don't sway out of a nice, tight turn around your right hip. Actually squat into that loaded leg and hip. Stop when it feels like your upper arm is flat or level (it won't be but I said [i]feels[/i]) or that you're going to hit it about 80% or so. Focus on a spot a couple inches behind the ball and see what happens...

Simplified even further...try to feel like you're twisting that right arm so much that it might break!

I'm hitting it longer and straighter than I ever have in my life with every club in the bag, even partial wedge shots! Good luck!

[Atrayn]

He absolutely did. Can be seen working on it throughout his career. I know it's awkward at first, but commit to it and several things will fall into place.

 

Harmon takes a lot of heat around here ... deservedly so at times ... but he did pickup one essential piece from his father having Hogan around the house.

 

Love this picture ....

 

 

This is a cool pic, and I'm assuming something I'm currently working on. Is Butch preventhing Tigers elbow from going out (flying) and making sure he's keeping it more vertical so his hands are infront of him?

 

I tend to get inside and flat on the backswing, with a flying right elbow and the arms behind me causing an overswing. I've been working on keeping that right elbow more up and down at the top of the backswing with my hands infront of me - definitely seems to help prevent me from coming OTT as much as I normally do.

 

Would have to know the context of the article or discussion that goes along with the image.

[limcauco]

[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1401386618' post='9390407']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1401243995' post='9378903']
Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?
[/quote]
I'm not as concerned with the forearm as I am with the upper arm. Try to feel like you're pushing your right elbow down a little while rotating your upper arm clockwise as far as you can (looking down at ball perspective). Keep the club on plane and keep both upper arms connected to your body. Don't sway out of a nice, tight turn around your right hip. Actually squat into that loaded leg and hip. Stop when it feels like your upper arm is flat or level (it won't be but I said [i]feels[/i]) or that you're going to hit it about 80% or so. Focus on a spot a couple inches behind the ball and see what happens...

Simplified even further...try to feel like you're twisting that right arm so much that it might break!

I'm hitting it longer and straighter than I ever have in my life with every club in the bag, even partial wedge shots! Good luck!
[/quote]

Ok. Technically, external rotation of right shoulder?

[tembolo1284]

He absolutely did. Can be seen working on it throughout his career. I know it's awkward at first, but commit to it and several things will fall into place.

 

Harmon takes a lot of heat around here ... deservedly so at times ... but he did pickup one essential piece from his father having Hogan around the house.

 

Love this picture ....

 

 

This is a cool pic, and I'm assuming something I'm currently working on. Is Butch preventhing Tigers elbow from going out (flying) and making sure he's keeping it more vertical so his hands are infront of him?

 

I tend to get inside and flat on the backswing, with a flying right elbow and the arms behind me causing an overswing. I've been working on keeping that right elbow more up and down at the top of the backswing with my hands infront of me - definitely seems to help prevent me from coming OTT as much as I normally do.

 

Would have to know the context of the article or discussion that goes along with the image.

 

Is that available?

[fats]

To be honest, this ONE thing in Hogan's book, goof me up for years. It if physically impossible for me to make much of a backswing with my left arm in the posisition shown in the book. Right arm? Sure, it points at the hip. But the only way I can turn with my left elbow pointing inward is I must rotate my left arm from the shoulder socket, which creates a big inside move on the way back.

 

At impact, the left arm has the elbow pointing basically down the line, not at your hip. Some old timer gave me this tip years ago, and this is the position I decided to start with, as that is where I wanted to get back to. From there, I could take the club straight back and not way inside with a rotating arm...this one change improved my game more than anything ever did. Post impact, it rotates left, but at impact, its going down the line....

 

Here is Hogan at impact:

 

 

Now look at this sequence, Hogan has his left arm with the elbow pointing down the line just at takeaway, and at impact:

 

 

A young Nicklaus at impact, this is what I strive for, if my body would allow:

 

 

setup:

 

 

Old Jack, notice his left arm/elbow still in the same spot at address:

 

Here is Tiger at impact:

 

 

 

 

Annika:

 

 

 

 

Young and old Watson:

 

 

Very good. Just don't relate it to the BS. It's all about the impact zone in the DS. Oh, and BTW it appears the "low left society" has finally left the building. - Hooray !!

[tembolo1284]

Nice to see you posting again sir fats!

[fats]

It pleases me to see a topic where it's visual rather than "some guy's theory." The Jack image is as good as it gets. Draw a line down from his L hip to L shoe (Would start middle of upper L forearm) all very much a Hogan position albeit it way more powerful. [attachment=2255497:inar01_jack_nickaus.jpg]

[limcauco]

Nice to see you posting Larry. You should post more often. Do you teach pointing the left elbow dtl right at setup? From there, is it an active move?

[tembolo1284]

fats won't give it away that easily!

[limcauco]

Worth trying though...

[limcauco]

Wait...that the secret???

[tembolo1284]

Even if it is...Fats won't tell!

[limcauco]

Sad to say, yes. Guess we're left with thousands of posts to read bet lines and figure it out ourselves.

[limcauco]

Or hook a lesson with those who knows and hope they give you a hint!

[tembolo1284]

You can get a lesson from Fats himself!

[lonestar48]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1401981195' post='9435613']
You can get a lesson from Fats himself!
[/quote]
Details please! PM me when you get a chance.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='lonestar48' timestamp='1402007496' post='9438517']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1401981195' post='9435613']
You can get a lesson from Fats himself!
[/quote]
Details please! PM me when you get a chance.
[/quote]

I'd PM Fats.

[eightiron]

Jbacoustics another svs lima cuckoo handle that got banned lmao

[tembolo1284]

who got banned now?

[ej002]

Nobody, there is an old banned handle early on called JBL

[tembolo1284]

what are doc's thoughts on the elbows?

[Mike_C]

To be honest, this ONE thing in Hogan's book, goof me up for years. It if physically impossible for me to make much of a backswing with my left arm in the posisition shown in the book. Right arm? Sure, it points at the hip. But the only way I can turn with my left elbow pointing inward is I must rotate my left arm from the shoulder socket, which creates a big inside move on the way back.

 

At impact, the left arm has the elbow pointing basically down the line, not at your hip. Some old timer gave me this tip years ago, and this is the position I decided to start with, as that is where I wanted to get back to. From there, I could take the club straight back and not way inside with a rotating arm...this one change improved my game more than anything ever did. Post impact, it rotates left, but at impact, its going down the line....

 

Here is Hogan at impact:

 

 

Now look at this sequence, Hogan has his left arm with the elbow pointing down the line just at takeaway, and at impact:

 

 

A young Nicklaus at impact, this is what I strive for, if my body would allow:

 

 

setup:

 

 

Old Jack, notice his left arm/elbow still in the same spot at address:

 

Here is Tiger at impact:

 

 

 

 

Annika:

 

 

 

 

Young and old Watson:

 

 

Very good. Just don't relate it to the BS. It's all about the impact zone in the DS. Oh, and BTW it appears the "low left society" has finally left the building. - Hooray !!

 

 

I relate it to the back swing in my instance because of the position shown in Hogan's book, and how if I start there, it gets me out of position going back. I guess If I could start rotated in, and get back at impact to the picture shown in a young Nicklaus, that would be fine, but I can't.

 

As I said, in my mind, I strive for the positions that is shown by a young Jack, just my old body is pretty much in the shape and condition of the old Jack....

[tembolo1284]

I really like the annika footage. She kinda has a hula hoop hip action going on there.

[hoganswing]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1281219351' post='2624906']
I see a lot of people believing that they have to keep the elbows together... In my understanding I allways believed he was meaning to keep the pressure under your armpits alive... [attachment=638255:realdeall.jpg] Even on the picture on the right you can see he pressures the upper arms to the the ripcage... The most evidence what he really meant are in this video: <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_AmPuzgBXEM&hl=de_DE&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_AmPuzgBXEM&hl=de_DE&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object> This remembers me allways to a figure iceskater - the more the arms are closer to the body - the faster you spin or turn.... What do you think....Chris
[/quote]

From my research Hogan did not have his arms close together at setup. I saw an ad for a product yesterday that claimed to help you have arms close together like Hogan did at setup. And it's clear he didn't do this. There's a lot in five lessons that Hogan never did but he told others they should do. Not sure what to make of that to be honest. Feel vs. Real maybe. I heard somewhere someone asked him about those sore of discrepancies and he told the person it's all there, you just have to read between the lines. :-)