Hogan's Swing Controls

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  • SilkySilky Members  731WRX Points: 80Posts: 731 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #32
    No where,<br />
    <br />
    I still cannot grasp what you are proposing. A picture will be helpful.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • no where to lookno where to look Members  493WRX Points: 0Posts: 493
    Joined:  #33
    Silky wrote:
    <br />
    No where,<br />
    <br />
    I still cannot grasp what you are proposing. A picture will be helpful.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    sorry don't do pictures, silky..
    Posted:
  • no where to lookno where to look Members  493WRX Points: 0Posts: 493
    Joined:  edited Jul 30, 2014 #34
    <br />
    Silky wrote:
    <br />
    No where,<br />
    <br />
    I still cannot grasp what you are proposing. A picture will be helpful.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    sorry don't do pictures, silky..<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Silky wrote:
    <br />
    No where,<br />
    <br />
    I still cannot grasp what you are proposing. A picture will be helpful.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    sorry don't do pictures, silky..<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    found one:<br />
    <br />
    1:14 and 1:36<br />
    torso and head both ahead of the back of the ball, and three levers pulling in a common plane.<br />
    <br />
    clear as mud?<br />
    https://www.youtube....h?v=4wpyAXvIDYw
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SilkySilky Members  731WRX Points: 80Posts: 731 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Aug 1, 2014 #35
    No where,<br />
    <br />
    Horizontal tug, vertical drop. Can we prove that Hogan was doing that?<br />
    Yes, with a little bit of imagination, let's try to isolate the horizontal tug from the vertical drop.<br />
    <br />
    Please look at the picture below of the sequence of Hogan down swing from "laid off configuration" at the top, concentrating on the movement of the left shoulder. Now imagine Hogan not doing anything through his right hand, or even freeing the right hand from the grip. With the left shoulder moving in the horizontal direction as shown without any additional action from the right side, how do you think would the orbits of the left hand and the club be like? Of course, the hands would try to follow the shoulder and the club head would try to follow the hands in the same plane as that of the laid off configuration.<br />
    <br />
    Can you now visualize the result of horizontal tug without vertical drop? It is easy to actually try it out.<br />
    <br />
    [sharedmedia=core:attachments:2345479]<br />
    <br />
    Now, I come to dislike the word "drop" as in "vertical drop" as Moe had coined, sorry Moe. This is because it conveys a passive right side or the notion of having the hands and club fall passively by gravity. Actually, there is acceleration hands vertically like when you do downward hammering, or throwing. Perhaps, a better phrase would be "horizontal tug, vertical throw".<br />
    <br />
    I still cannot implement the vertical throw effectively yet beyond my hacker's hammering. I am still musing over "lateral right bending" as 8iron suggested about how I can do that without disrupting the left side action.<br />
    <br />
    Notice that Hogan did not use the reverse-K setup but he did achieve the reverse-K look mid-swing. Perhaps a dynamic reverse-K may be the solution of the vertical throw for it sure adds a downward acceleration of the right side.
    Posted:
  • SilkySilky Members  731WRX Points: 80Posts: 731 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Aug 1, 2014 #36
    Confession of a long driving champion.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    iteachgolf wrote:
    <br />
    Wouldn't tell him to slow down the hips. Need to get him to move the arms and shoulders faster. Your though of keeping right hip deep, which I agree with, slows down and delays how early the hips fire. Point is you can fire the hips way too early/quickly. I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't turn fast. It's that most people need to feel they delay them from turning in transition so they can turn faster latter and arms don't get left behind. Btw my hips average 615 degrees/sec not too far from Rory's and my arms don't get way behind me. Has nothing to do with not having fast hips. MOST people move them too fast too soon. It's about delaying them<br />
    <br />
    hqdefault.jpg<br />
    <br />
    For another guy that many talk about how fast he turned his hips, look how late they are still closed coming down. They turned fast late but were delayed coming down. Arms have worked down and away from his right shoulder quite fast and you don't see a huge separation between upper and lower body.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Well said Dan.<br />
    <br />
    This is something so many people, including many teaching pros, don't understand. It's not about slowing the hips (no one wants that) it's about delaying when they fire.<br />
    <br />
    For some it's more lateral hip motion, for others it's keeping the tailbone facing the target longer, or belt buckle behind the ball....for many, it's start the arms sooner or faster.<br />
    <br />
    This is nothing but a debate over what one has to feel to sequence properly...and what is actually happening.<br />
    <br />
    Does it look like I am trying to dump the right wrist angle from the top here?<br />
    <br />
    That was the only thought I had here.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Well "horizontal tug , vertical dump" may be better.<br />
    The harder you turn, the stronger you must dump.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • no where to lookno where to look Members  493WRX Points: 0Posts: 493
    Joined:  #37
    Silky wrote:
    <br />
    Confession of a long driving champion.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    iteachgolf wrote:
    <br />
    Wouldn't tell him to slow down the hips. Need to get him to move the arms and shoulders faster. Your though of keeping right hip deep, which I agree with, slows down and delays how early the hips fire. Point is you can fire the hips way too early/quickly. I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't turn fast. It's that most people need to feel they delay them from turning in transition so they can turn faster latter and arms don't get left behind. Btw my hips average 615 degrees/sec not too far from Rory's and my arms don't get way behind me. Has nothing to do with not having fast hips. MOST people move them too fast too soon. It's about delaying them<br />
    <br />
    hqdefault.jpg<br />
    <br />
    For another guy that many talk about how fast he turned his hips, look how late they are still closed coming down. They turned fast late but were delayed coming down. Arms have worked down and away from his right shoulder quite fast and you don't see a huge separation between upper and lower body.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Well said Dan.<br />
    <br />
    This is something so many people, including many teaching pros, don't understand. It's not about slowing the hips (no one wants that) it's about delaying when they fire.<br />
    <br />
    For some it's more lateral hip motion, for others it's keeping the tailbone facing the target longer, or belt buckle behind the ball....for many, it's start the arms sooner or faster.<br />
    <br />
    This is nothing but a debate over what one has to feel to sequence properly...and what is actually happening.<br />
    <br />
    Does it look like I am trying to dump the right wrist angle from the top here?<br />
    <br />
    That was the only thought I had here.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Well may be "horizontal tug , vertical dump" may be better.<br />
    The harder you turn, the stronger you must dump.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    silky,<br />
    the entire DS takes less than 1/4 second.<br />
    <br />
    From position Ben Hogan is in<br />
    the pic shown, is less than 1/10 second from impact<br />
    <br />
    No one consciously controls speed of hips at that point.<br />
    <br />
    'tug' , 'dump'.. whatever. Better decide before the DS begins, because its over before you know it.<br />
    <br />
    .<br />
    <br />
    Maybe these pros can consciously control the speed of hips.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #38
    hot doggie those are some great posts from dan and monte.
    Posted:
  • SilkySilky Members  731WRX Points: 80Posts: 731 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #39
    <br />
    silky,<br />
    the entire DS takes less than 1/4 second.<br />
    <br />
    From position Ben Hogan is in<br />
    the pic shown, is less than 1/10 second from impact<br />
    <br />
    No one consciously controls speed of hips at that point.<br />
    <br />
    'tug' , 'dump'.. whatever. Better decide before the DS begins, because its over before you know it.<br />
    <br />
    .<br />
    <br />
    Maybe these pros can consciously control the speed of hips.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yah, no where,<br />
    <br />
    Left side: Hey, righty you dump to hard, we hit the wrong ball first.<br />
    Right side: No, you didn't turn your hip, your swing sucked, no power.
    Posted:
  • no where to lookno where to look Members  493WRX Points: 0Posts: 493
    Joined:  #40
    Silky wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    silky,<br />
    the entire DS takes less than 1/4 second.<br />
    <br />
    From position Ben Hogan is in<br />
    the pic shown, is less than 1/10 second from impact<br />
    <br />
    No one consciously controls speed of hips at that point.<br />
    <br />
    'tug' , 'dump'.. whatever. Better decide before the DS begins, because its over before you know it.<br />
    <br />
    .<br />
    <br />
    Maybe these pros can consciously control the speed of hips.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yah, no where,<br />
    <br />
    Left side: Hey, righty you dump to hard, we hit the wrong ball first.<br />
    Right side: No, you didn't turn your hip, your swing sucked, no power.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    exactly,<br />
    the only way to avoid those conflicts is to<br />
    pull the three levers on one common plane
    Posted:
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