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Vintage iron advice for a semi digger


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Now that the hickory tournament season is over I start turning my attention to steel. Got rid of my Apex IIs due to my "disc/neck issues" . I am feeling better these days and am wanting to repace them with a new to me, "vintageish" iron set. I take divots, not beaver pelts necessarily, but I am definitely not a sweeper. When I look at vintage blades, the leading edges often seem of dubious value to me and my swing. Strangely enough, save for a couple of discarded clubs, I have not had this issue with hickory.

 

Any advice for a blade for my kind of swing? Vintage for me anyway, can go into late 80's early 90's. till persimmons went away, I suppose would be the timeline.

 

Thanks!


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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In my vintage experiences I'd say the Wilson fluid feels had the best turf interaction.

But as a general note, not necessarily aimed at you, it seems that a lot of folks want to take a vintage set and bend them to modern lofts. Since many of them had nominal bounce values to start with, now they've created negative bounce that really encourages a dig. So that's something to keep in mind when you do settle on a set -- check the lofts and make sure they're set back to original or even a degree or two weaker.

And if you play persimmon, you're my friend

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[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416855396' post='10497155']
In my vintage experiences I'd say the Wilson fluid feels had the best turf interaction.

But as a general note, not necessarily aimed at you, it seems that a lot of folks want to take a vintage set and bend them to modern lofts. Since many of them had nominal bounce values to start with, now they've created negative bounce that really encourages a dig. So that's something to keep in mind when you do settle on a set -- check the lofts and make sure they're set back to original or even a degree or two weaker.
[/quote]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416855396' post='10497155']
In my vintage experiences I'd say the Wilson fluid feels had the best turf interaction.

But as a general note, not necessarily aimed at you, it seems that a lot of folks want to take a vintage set and bend them to modern lofts. Since many of them had nominal bounce values to start with, now they've created negative bounce that really encourages a dig. So that's something to keep in mind when you do settle on a set -- check the lofts and make sure they're set back to original or even a degree or two weaker.
[/quote]

Yes, Kevin that's sound advice. Guys seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. My Apex IIs were standard loft save the E wedge that was supposed to be 50 was bent to 46.5. That meant the nine and the equalizer were only 1.5 degrees apart. My guess is he abandoned the Hogans at some point for a modern set and kept the "improved/bent" wedge in the bag as his PW. I would never bend a vintage set. That's the whole point to me is to play them as they were designed, and with my swing I also need the bounce.

By fluid feel do you mean the late 80's model, or anything in the fluid feel family? My memory tells me there were a few models of that designation. Thank you.


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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I took a serious look at The Standard 85 Palmer blades in the classic bst section. The seller says they are an in between club that is good for all types of turf interaction, but, in the pics anyway, the leading edge looked pretty square to me. Could be just the image though.


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1416858498' post='10497449']
If you ever make it to the desert you could try out a couple hundred different vintage 5 irons!!
[/quote]

Great idea. Need to pump iron for awhile to prep for 200 swings!


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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KD - you liked your apex iis, the apex pcs that followed have a blunted leading edge. The soles are narrower, but have more camber from front to back, and I think are less prone to dig. Also worth looking at mizuno. From the 80s, tp originals are flat soled and sharp edged, but tp9s, the wingback model or tp11s, are much more to your taste. Pure, no fuss, blades the lot of them.

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[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1416858959' post='10497477']
There is a guy in Pasadena, name is Rick Batista that has thousands of vintage clubs, also had over a thousand hickory a couple of years ago. Dont know what he has now it has been 3 years since I was there but he told me last winter he has lots of new stuff. Let me know if you want his number and email
[/quote]

Yeah, I remember him, Rick's Sticks, I think he called his business. I bought an eye two 5 iron from him 20 years ago to replace one I lost. He was in La Canada, I believe. Didn't know he was still in business. Sure, that info would be great. If he still is where he used to be, it's 10 minutes from me. Nothing like actually seeing the clubs you are buying.


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1416857582' post='10497371']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416855396' post='10497155']
In my vintage experiences I'd say the Wilson fluid feels had the best turf interaction.

But as a general note, not necessarily aimed at you, it seems that a lot of folks want to take a vintage set and bend them to modern lofts. Since many of them had nominal bounce values to start with, now they've created negative bounce that really encourages a dig. So that's something to keep in mind when you do settle on a set -- check the lofts and make sure they're set back to original or even a degree or two weaker.
[/quote]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416855396' post='10497155']
In my vintage experiences I'd say the Wilson fluid feels had the best turf interaction.

But as a general note, not necessarily aimed at you, it seems that a lot of folks want to take a vintage set and bend them to modern lofts. Since many of them had nominal bounce values to start with, now they've created negative bounce that really encourages a dig. So that's something to keep in mind when you do settle on a set -- check the lofts and make sure they're set back to original or even a degree or two weaker.
[/quote]

Yes, Kevin that's sound advice. Guys seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. My Apex IIs were standard loft save the E wedge that was supposed to be 50 was bent to 46.5. That meant the nine and the equalizer were only 1.5 degrees apart. My guess is he abandoned the Hogans at some point for a modern set and kept the "improved/bent" wedge in the bag as his PW. I would never bend a vintage set. That's the whole point to me is to play them as they were designed, and with my swing I also need the bounce.

By fluid feel do you mean the late 80's model, or anything in the fluid feel family? My memory tells me there were a few models of that designation. Thank you.
[/quote]Its a wonder someone did not dig to China with that much deloft on a vintage blade iron. Old blades do not need to be bent on loft more than 2* either way. I have built or should say modified some old wedges for folks by decreasing the loft and that creates bounce and in the case of a narrow sole that is a narrow sole bounce almost like a Cleveland 900 low bounce

Driver--- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha--- Speeder 565 R flex

5W  --- TM V Steel Fubuki 60r

7W --- TM V Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex

9W--- TM V Steel Stock V Steel R flex shaft

Irons 5 thru PW TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R F

SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified Grind KBS Tour Wedge

LW Vokey SM5 L Grind 58* 04 bounce Stock Vokey Shaft

Putter Macgregor Bobby Grace Mark 4 V-Foil Broomstick

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[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1416863505' post='10497861']
KD - you liked your apex iis, the apex pcs that followed have a blunted leading edge. The soles are narrower, but have more camber from front to back, and I think are less prone to dig.
[/quote]

I mentioned my digging in another thread, but I have to say that I felt the PC had more bounce compared to Haig, DX, and a Maxfli 4 iron I compared. Mostly, I don't dig with th PC. Yesterday was a strange day. ( dug with the 4 wood)

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Haig Ultra's circa 1984 had a camber sole (not the Crenshaw grind)

Ping G430 HL 10.5*

Wilson Staff Dyna Power 5 wood
Ping 410 7 wood
XXIO 10 5 Hybrid, Tour Exotics 6 Hybrid
Wilson Staff D9 forged 7-GW

Wilson Staff 56*

Wilson Staff 60*

Ping Anser 2 2021 34" 

Like Edberg's forehand, my swing is held together with a paperclip and a rubber band.
 

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KD, I gotta say, if you've learned how to hit hickory originals you shouldn't have any trouble with any irons made after 1950 lol. I took my Wilson mashie niblick out for a test drive today. I don't normally dig much but man, I was really skinning beavers with that thing!

And if you play persimmon, you're my friend

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[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1416873171' post='10498605']
[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1416862385' post='10497771']
Hogan Bounce or Round soles from the late 70's would be my recommendation. They are the most modern and anti-diggy in their sole grinds of the Apexes.
[/quote]

Do you mean early 70's?
[/quote]
yep

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[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1416865257' post='10497989']
[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1416858959' post='10497477']
There is a guy in Pasadena, name is Rick Batista that has thousands of vintage clubs, also had over a thousand hickory a couple of years ago. Dont know what he has now it has been 3 years since I was there but he told me last winter he has lots of new stuff. Let me know if you want his number and email
[/quote]

Yeah, I remember him, Rick's Sticks, I think he called his business. I bought an eye two 5 iron from him 20 years ago to replace one I lost. He was in La Canada, I believe. Didn't know he was still in business. Sure, that info would be great. If he still is where he used to be, it's 10 minutes from me. Nothing like actually seeing the clubs you are buying.
[/quote]thats [email protected]
I met him at the Rose Bowl flea market, he was one of the few people selling clubs
He got started in golf collecting by collecting golf balls, going in golf clubs ponds and lakes, he had a couple hundred thousand golf balls in his garage when I was there a few years ago
He had racks sitting outside his back yard with several hundred Bullseyes and other putters, rusting away, very sad

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[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416870425' post='10498385']
KD, I gotta say, if you've learned how to hit hickory originals you shouldn't have any trouble with any irons made after 1950 lol. I took my Wilson mashie niblick out for a test drive today. I don't normally dig much but man, I was really skinning beavers with that thing!
[/quote]

For me, practicing chips and partial shots with hickories has been a kind of anti-dig boot camp. Precision required, or very bad things will happen.

MODERN:
Yonex eZone 380 10*, Callaway X2 Hot Pro 4w 17*
Callaway Big Bertha Heavenwood 4-7h
Royal Collection Tour VS 8-PW
Fourteen MT28 J.Spec 52*, Yururi Chili 57*, Cleveland CG15 64*
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Beach
--------
CLASSIC (under construction):
'62 Hogan Power Thrust irons
--------
HICKORY:
Jack White JWX Model D driver, brassie & spoon
Mills BSD1 aluminium cleek
Tom Stewart mashie & niblick
George Nicoll spade mashie
Tom Morris mashie niblick
Gibson Skoogee niblick
Spalding HB putter
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[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1416884908' post='10499635']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1416870425' post='10498385']
KD, I gotta say, if you've learned how to hit hickory originals you shouldn't have any trouble with any irons made after 1950 lol. I took my Wilson mashie niblick out for a test drive today. I don't normally dig much but man, I was really skinning beavers with that thing!
[/quote]

For me, practicing chips and partial shots with hickories has been a kind of anti-dig boot camp. Precision required, or very bad things will happen.
[/quote]

Gentlemen, all I can say is not just any hickory club will suffice. I was lucky in that when I started I had Chris MacIntyre in my corner. That was a huge help. He sold me my first "set" if you will. My first four clubs, a brassie, mid iron, mashie and m. niblick. All quality clubs that Chris bought from the late John Sherwood, a guy who really knew what he was doing. I already had a putter and a niblick. Putter was my grandad's, niblick was given to me by a buddy who bought it at a yard sale. Amazingly, it turned out to be a really nice club. Those clubs, four of which I am still using I never had any issues with digging. The sole of my mashie niblick is quite modern looking. It was only when I went out on my own trying to improve my set up did I run into trouble. I bought a niblick on ebay that when I struck a shot, the club head would literally stop, stuck in the ground! It was like I was doing stop motion photography. Terrible. I have wised up since then, educated myself, buy only from guys I trust. It takes patience to play and build an authentic set of originals. There is a big payoff though. You really appreciate your bag. Your clubs are like buddies almost, and it's the most fun, rewarding game of golf I have ever played. Not to mention the great people I have met doing it.

So...there, I have jacked my own thread. Hope that's helpful. Stick with it.


Driver 10.5 Taylor Made Burner 2.0
Ping 3 and 7 woods
Component 5 and 6 hybrids
and 8 and 9 irons (SGI)

Scratch 47 degree PW

Alpha SW

All graphite shafts
Putter: uh, I have a few
 

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Check out the MS-11s for sale in the Classic BST, in the same thread as the Palmers earlier mentioned.

I have a set of MS-11s, got the specs directly from Mizuno USA. They have 5° of bounce in the 3 iron, and it progresses from there. A great club for someone who might like a bit of bounce, and it sounds like what you're looking for, KD.

They also lack the sharp leading edge.

MP-14s would probably be another good choice, but they might be too new. :) You could also try find MP-9/MS-9, but I couldn't say if they're better than the MS-11/MP-11 (FWIW, the MS-11 and MP-11 are the same club)

The Palmers are good, but they do have a sharper leading edge. I think the 85 model, the ones for sale in BST, are better than either the earlier Standards, or the Original Standards that followed them.

Being a Ram guy, I'd love to tell you to find a set of those, but for the most part, I don't think they'd fit what you're looking for. Unless you happened to score a set of TW276, the sole on those has an interesting grind to the leading edge side.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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Someone in another thread has Medallions and two sets of PC for sale.

I can say that the PC does pretty well for me regarding bounce. (In fact after digging my 4w three times on a weird lie I went with the 3 iron and nailed it.)

My Medallion is used as a gap wedge and I'm kind of sweeping or scooping it, FWIW. No digs there, just tops or chopping it like an adze.

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