What is 'Vertical Swing Plane'?

[iteachgolf]

It's not either or. Its about sweetspot path in relation to the shaft plane. The high hands but sweetspot path below the shaft plane will result in a lower VSP and shallower AOA. If the sweetspot path were above the shaft plane the VSP would be higher and AOA steeper with hands high. It's the relationship between shaft plane and sweetspot path.

You won't see low hands and sweetspot below shaft plane except with ball teed up or ball way back in stance due to its affect on low point. Low hands and sweetspot approaching from even more below the low shaft plane would yeild fat shots for balls hit off the ground. The higher hands is what allows the sweetspot to approach from a flatter plane without bottoming out too early.

[mikah]

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424974456' post='11033427']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424973727' post='11033329']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424967459' post='11032609']
So in many ways my takeaway from this thread is that VSP or incorrectly called 'swing plane' is pretty much irrelevant. If the real plane is shallow(er) and the VSP/AoA steep(er), than the only practical use for the term is understanding how it affects club path when you strike down.

Is it an 'either or' only situation though? Does everybody who has steeper VSP and attack look shallower at impact and vice versa? These have to be at each end of the spectrum I would think... but have never really thought about it before so this has been insightful. VSP is one of those 'measurements' that never seemed to matter much.
[/quote]

are you trolling now? your buddy would be an exception to your question
[/quote]
Trolling Pin? It's a legitimate question. Its been phrased like it's only an either or. Either you've got an upright plane with shallow VSP or shallow plane with a steep VSP. There has to be some middle ground where the 2 get closer together and it can't only be 'hacks'. I've asked the question a couple times now.
Don't piss off daddy son.
[/quote]

agree, PTKD, that there is a middle ground:

Once when practicing with Ben Hogan Claude Harmon Snr. asked Ben about swing plane. Mr. Hogan pointed his thumb down the range at the other players and said, "They keep trying to get their hands high, more upright, and I'm trying to get flatter all the time. As I get flat when I move into the ball with my left side, it drops me inside even flatter and I come from the inside every time without ever coming over the ball. The flatter I get the fatter my wallet gets."


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cuYYPlF73Q#t=59"]https://www.youtube....cuYYPlF73Q#t=59[/url]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ycSQjc6iwk

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424996602' post='11036031']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424974456' post='11033427']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424973727' post='11033329']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424967459' post='11032609']
So in many ways my takeaway from this thread is that VSP or incorrectly called 'swing plane' is pretty much irrelevant. If the real plane is shallow(er) and the VSP/AoA steep(er), than the only practical use for the term is understanding how it affects club path when you strike down.

Is it an 'either or' only situation though? Does everybody who has steeper VSP and attack look shallower at impact and vice versa? These have to be at each end of the spectrum I would think... but have never really thought about it before so this has been insightful. VSP is one of those 'measurements' that never seemed to matter much.
[/quote]

are you trolling now? your buddy would be an exception to your question
[/quote]
Trolling Pin? It's a legitimate question. Its been phrased like it's only an either or. Either you've got an upright plane with shallow VSP or shallow plane with a steep VSP. There has to be some middle ground where the 2 get closer together and it can't only be 'hacks'. I've asked the question a couple times now.
Don't piss off daddy son.
[/quote]

agree, PTKD, that there is a middle ground:

Once when practicing with Ben Hogan Claude Harmon Snr. asked Ben about swing plane. Mr. Hogan pointed his thumb down the range at the other players and said, "They keep trying to get their hands high, more upright, and I'm trying to get flatter all the time. As I get flat when I move into the ball with my left side, it drops me inside even flatter and I come from the inside every time without ever coming over the ball. The flatter I get the fatter my wallet gets."


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cuYYPlF73Q#t=59"]https://www.youtube....cuYYPlF73Q#t=59[/url]
[/quote]

except there are 10x the amount of guys on tour with high hands as there are with low hands.

[mikah]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997287' post='11036093']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424996602' post='11036031']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424974456' post='11033427']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424973727' post='11033329']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1424967459' post='11032609']
So in many ways my takeaway from this thread is that VSP or incorrectly called 'swing plane' is pretty much irrelevant. If the real plane is shallow(er) and the VSP/AoA steep(er), than the only practical use for the term is understanding how it affects club path when you strike down.

Is it an 'either or' only situation though? Does everybody who has steeper VSP and attack look shallower at impact and vice versa? These have to be at each end of the spectrum I would think... but have never really thought about it before so this has been insightful. VSP is one of those 'measurements' that never seemed to matter much.
[/quote]

are you trolling now? your buddy would be an exception to your question
[/quote]
Trolling Pin? It's a legitimate question. Its been phrased like it's only an either or. Either you've got an upright plane with shallow VSP or shallow plane with a steep VSP. There has to be some middle ground where the 2 get closer together and it can't only be 'hacks'. I've asked the question a couple times now.
Don't piss off daddy son.
[/quote]

agree, PTKD, that there is a middle ground:

Once when practicing with Ben Hogan Claude Harmon Snr. asked Ben about swing plane. Mr. Hogan pointed his thumb down the range at the other players and said, "They keep trying to get their hands high, more upright, and I'm trying to get flatter all the time. As I get flat when I move into the ball with my left side, it drops me inside even flatter and I come from the inside every time without ever coming over the ball. The flatter I get the fatter my wallet gets."


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cuYYPlF73Q#t=59"]https://www.youtube....cuYYPlF73Q#t=59[/url]
[/quote]

except there are 10x the amount of guys on tour with high hands as there are with low hands.
[/quote]


Funny isnt it. That is exactly Ben Hogan's observation back in the day.

nothing has changed,and no one swings it like Ben Hogan.

[pinhigh27]

because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.

[mikah]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w

[MK7Golf21]

whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!

[ej002]

Did these mods really lock that Hanna Davis thread. Are we in detention? Unreal

[TB07]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425005296' post='11037017']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Damn!

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1425009318' post='11037475']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425005296' post='11037017']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Damn!
[/quote]

Low hands....pure

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1425009318' post='11037475']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425005296' post='11037017']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Damn!
[/quote]

[eightiron]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1424975679' post='11033565']

[b]You won't see low hands and sweetspot below shaft plane except with ball teed up or ball way back in stance due to its affect on low point. Low hands and sweetspot approaching from even more below the low shaft plane would yeild fat shots for balls hit off the ground.[/b] The higher hands is what allows the sweetspot to approach from a flatter plane without bottoming out too early.
[/quote]

ABS inventor John Erikson gives it a darn good try though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXf17Qq-mnI

[northgolf]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

Tell us about it miKah, how do you teach it so it's low maintenance. I challenge you not to use the word "hands" at any point.

[mitchdoc]

Call me dense but unless knowing what iris helps me swing better I will leave it in the hands of Monte and I teach

[northgolf]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1425006979' post='11037243']
Did these mods really lock that Hanna Davis thread. Are we in detention? Unreal
[/quote]

It's sad, she was the best demonstration of "Ground Reaction Forces" that I'd ever seen.

[TB07]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425009747' post='11037533']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1425009318' post='11037475']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425005296' post='11037017']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Damn!
[/quote]
[/quote]

At some point Tiger should have realized he was waaay over doing it.

[eightiron]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if you[b]r instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.[/b]


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

Like this instructor who has high hands?

[attachment=2637741:gerrytop.jpg]

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425009747' post='11037533']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1425009318' post='11037475']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1425005296' post='11037017']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1425004776' post='11036959']
whats the vertical swing plane on this
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJIkVgwt3k"]https://www.youtube....h?v=nEJIkVgwt3k[/url]
[/quote]

LMAO

Haaaaaaaaaaaaay

YAH!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Damn!
[/quote]
[/quote]
not shallow, shaft nor sweet spot

[ALIF]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1425009829' post='11037541']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1424975679' post='11033565']

[b]You won't see low hands and sweetspot below shaft plane except with ball teed up or ball way back in stance due to its affect on low point. Low hands and sweetspot approaching from even more below the low shaft plane would yeild fat shots for balls hit off the ground.[/b] The higher hands is what allows the sweetspot to approach from a flatter plane without bottoming out too early.
[/quote]

ABS inventor John Erikson gives it a darn good try though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXf17Qq-mnI
[/quote]

That makes me want to puke!

[ALIF]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w
[/quote]

So Mikah, what have you figured out that millions of others haven't? Lol.

[Shaggie]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1425011060' post='11037711']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

So Mikah, what have you figured out that millions of others haven't? Lol.
[/quote] Sounds easy to me the lie angle of your club determines the swing plane there is no 1 swing in golf u have a wedge swing and u have a 3 wood swing, so trying to groove a single swing is a disaster ever wonder why u hit some clubs better than others its because that lie angle of the club is comfortable to u

[ksgolfcoach]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1425012927' post='11037933']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1425011060' post='11037711']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

So Mikah, what have you figured out that millions of others haven't? Lol.
[/quote] Sounds easy to me the lie angle of your club determines the swing plane there is no 1 swing in golf u have a wedge swing and u have a 3 wood swing, so trying to groove a single swing is a disaster ever wonder why u hit some clubs better than others its because that lie angle of the club is comfortable to u
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're trolling but I'll play along. If trying to grove 1 swing is a disaster because of different lie angles what do you suggest? Working on 13 different swings? You realize that because of the different lengths of the club and lie angles your set up will change so your swing will change without trying to change. What exactly are you recommending?

[ALIF]

[quote name='ksgolfcoach' timestamp='1425013687' post='11037993']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1425012927' post='11037933']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1425011060' post='11037711']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

So Mikah, what have you figured out that millions of others haven't? Lol.
[/quote] Sounds easy to me the lie angle of your club determines the swing plane there is no 1 swing in golf u have a wedge swing and u have a 3 wood swing, so trying to groove a single swing is a disaster ever wonder why u hit some clubs better than others its because that lie angle of the club is comfortable to u
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're trolling but I'll play along. If trying to grove 1 swing is a disaster because of different lie angles what do you suggest? Working on 13 different swings? You realize that because of the different lengths of the club and lie angles your set up will change so your swing will change without trying to change. What exactly are you recommending?
[/quote]

I actually have 14 different swings. Don't forget the putter! Lol.

[Shaggie]

[quote name='ksgolfcoach' timestamp='1425013687' post='11037993']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1425012927' post='11037933']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1425011060' post='11037711']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1424997762' post='11036143']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1424997536' post='11036115']
because its an extremely high maintenance way to swing.
[/quote]

only if your instructor doesnt know how to teach it to you.


short irons with lie angles at address and impact:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w"]https://www.youtube....h?v=wfEtoE9Xf9w[/url]
[/quote]

So Mikah, what have you figured out that millions of others haven't? Lol.
[/quote] Sounds easy to me the lie angle of your club determines the swing plane there is no 1 swing in golf u have a wedge swing and u have a 3 wood swing, so trying to groove a single swing is a disaster ever wonder why u hit some clubs better than others its because that lie angle of the club is comfortable to u
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're trolling but I'll play along. If trying to grove 1 swing is a disaster because of different lie angles what do you suggest? Working on 13 different swings? You realize that because of the different lengths of the club and lie angles your set up will change so your swing will change without trying to change. What exactly are you recommending?
[/quote]I am saying just that you have to recognize some clubs will have a flatter swing plane than others starting with wedge thru driver many clubs are close to same lie angle 13 differet swings are not required you just have to realize it;

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1425009829' post='11037541']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1424975679' post='11033565']

[b]You won't see low hands and sweetspot below shaft plane except with ball teed up or ball way back in stance due to its affect on low point. Low hands and sweetspot approaching from even more below the low shaft plane would yeild fat shots for balls hit off the ground.[/b] The higher hands is what allows the sweetspot to approach from a flatter plane without bottoming out too early.
[/quote]

ABS inventor John Erikson gives it a darn good try though

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXf17Qq-mnI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=PXf17Qq-mnI[/url]
[/quote]

does he practice hitting balls off that deck all the time? I'd think that would screw up your hands so much, can you imagine the vibrations. Not to mention it's probably not good for your clubs...

[pinhigh27]

ok so what does that have to do with hogan

[mikah]

[b]You won't see low hands and sweetspot below shaft plane except with ball teed up or ball way back in stance due to its affect on low point.[/b]


[b]So, iteach, why not play the ball back in the stance?[/b]

[TB07]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1425006979' post='11037243']
Did these mods really lock that Hanna Davis thread. Are we in detention? Unreal
[/quote]

Doesn't surprise me that you see that thread as appropriate. lol

[golfie1]

Mikah,

 

Or you can play it way way back

 

 

Or you can play it way forward

 

The point being that random caddie view pics are pretty worthless in general.

 

BTW I think that there should have a separate "Ask questions of Mikah, spar with Mikah" thread so as not to derail every thread.