Nike dropping golf equipment (merged)

[ikarcuaso]

 

 

 

A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market.

 

iPhone?

[cmatthews77]

Ive read this entire thread and a few things stand out to me. First, I play mostly Nike clubs and it was a big disappointment to see the announcement. This notion that Nike clubs are garbage and unacceptable to most golfers is absolutely false. The people that are saying this are the people who have never actually given Nike clubs a shot. I game the Covert driver and hit that club very well and its the same story with the Covert irons that I have. I know many people that use Nike clubs and its a shame that they are going to stop making them. However, I think it's Nike's own fault that their sales started declining. They had the right idea of making clubs that looked visually different from your average golf club, but they took it a couple steps too far with vapor series and that combo of blue and volt that even I didn't want to touch. Its a shame that they couldn't stick around longer because I really think that they would have seen an increase in golf sales in the next 5 to 10 years, but business is business.

 

Second, I don't think this idea that the hard equipment market is dying is a correct one. I researched the state of the sporting goods market in depth last spring for a project and I can tell you that Nike is still by far the top manufacturer of clothing and other equipment. This change is probably good for them from a business perspective because really their clubs could never shake that perception of being inferior for some reason. Adidas is lagging far behind Nike in the current market and I don't think them trying to sell Taylormade is and indication that hard equipment is not a profitable business. Yes, the margains are not as high but that doesn't mean that companies are going to fold. Adidas needs to make changes to their business model to keep from losing market share to Under Armour and Nike and this is probably part of that. In the end these companies are not exclusively golf companies so it makes it easier for them to just drop golf products.

 

Lastly, I think that golf clubs in general are overpriced and I think that companies are going to have lower their prices in the future and extend their product cycles while spending less money in R&D doing so. This is really the only way they are going to get people to buy more clubs. Also, I find this notion that Rory and all the other tour pros sponsored by Nike are magically going to improve by switching companies totally hilarious. Just my thoughts on the matter you can feel free to disagree with me.

 

I agree with everything you said. I'm a bit of a traditionalist and grew up with Slazenger, Wilson, MacGregor, but the quality of the VR line meant that I almost had a full bag of Nike clubs for three years. The STR8-Fit Tour driver, original VR forged wedges and Split Cavities were out of the top drawer. I think when Nike made traditional looking equipment they really excelled. If they had released the MM Proto as it looked rather than the Volt coloured Vapor Line I think they would have cleaned up.

 

... Slazenger, Wilson & MacGregor... all at one time great golf club manufacturers who are either gone or irrelevant. I bring this up to just make the point that things change. Who knows who will be the big names in golf in 30 years.

 

Nike is out of golf equipment business for one reason and one reason only IMO. They aren't a golf equipment company!!! Not that their equipment was inferior or the market is crashing. It's because Nike IS A CLOTHING AND SHOES company, NOT a golf company. They pushed uphill into a crowded market place and couldn't take it over with the Swoosh. So they stop doing it and stick to doing what they're good at which is apparel. And their business will continue to grow in golf shirts!

[Shilgy]

I honestly never saw much Nike Golf equipment myself through the years. It always seemed like the people decked out head to toe in Nike Swoosh and TW clothing. Nike has and will always have a loyal brand following, but not enough in golf with Titleist, TaylorMade, Callaway, Ping, Odyssey, Scotty Cameron, B Morgan.. etc they will continue to dominate other sports though

You see a lot of Byron Morgan?

[cmatthews77]

A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market.

 

iPhone?

 

Notice it isn't called "ApplePhone". Plus iPhones are in essence small personal computers and the iPhone INTRODUCED a new market.

 

Nike making clubs didn't revolutionize or even introduce anything. They just joined.

[ikarcuaso]

A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market.

 

iPhone?

 

Notice it isn't called "ApplePhone". Plus iPhones are in essence small personal computers and the iPhone INTRODUCED a new market.

 

Nike making clubs didn't revolutionize or even introduce anything. They just joined.

Uh, there's a prominent Apple logo on every "Apple iPhone", and the cell phone mkt was a new one to Apple at the time.

 

The point is, Interpol's stmt is a very broad one that isn't entirely true in all cases.

[Shilgy]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

[lees]

They didn't sell clubs very well in my pro shop, they still have some original covert drivers new for sale. Nike makes some nice golf shoes and apparel. I think now they can focus more on that side of things. Maybe they'll release the Jordan/KB's. I'd buy a pair of those.

[Interpol]

Uh, there's a prominent Apple logo on every "Apple iPhone", and the cell phone mkt was a new one to Apple at the time.

 

The point is, Interpol's stmt is a very broad one that isn't entirely true in all cases.

 

Nope. There was no smartphone (not cellphone) market when the iPhone came out. The introduction of the iPhone created a brand new market, it didn't enter a pre-existing one. And even if there was a pre-existing market at the time, Apple was/is a technology and consumer electronics company that was well poised and qualified to enter such a market.

 

It would be the same situation if Apple had decided to start making golf clubs and signed big names like Tiger and Rory. They wouldn't have had any legitimacy either.

[jacot23]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

 

Didn't all of these except Mizuno offer a plain black version? In other words something more eye pleasing to the masses was available?

[mahonie]

Ive read this entire thread and a few things stand out to me. First, I play mostly Nike clubs and it was a big disappointment to see the announcement. This notion that Nike clubs are garbage and unacceptable to most golfers is absolutely false. The people that are saying this are the people who have never actually given Nike clubs a shot. I game the Covert driver and hit that club very well and its the same story with the Covert irons that I have. I know many people that use Nike clubs and its a shame that they are going to stop making them. However, I think it's Nike's own fault that their sales started declining. They had the right idea of making clubs that looked visually different from your average golf club, but they took it a couple steps too far with vapor series and that combo of blue and volt that even I didn't want to touch. Its a shame that they couldn't stick around longer because I really think that they would have seen an increase in golf sales in the next 5 to 10 years, but business is business.

 

Second, I don't think this idea that the hard equipment market is dying is a correct one. I researched the state of the sporting goods market in depth last spring for a project and I can tell you that Nike is still by far the top manufacturer of clothing and other equipment. This change is probably good for them from a business perspective because really their clubs could never shake that perception of being inferior for some reason. Adidas is lagging far behind Nike in the current market and I don't think them trying to sell Taylormade is and indication that hard equipment is not a profitable business. Yes, the margains are not as high but that doesn't mean that companies are going to fold. Adidas needs to make changes to their business model to keep from losing market share to Under Armour and Nike and this is probably part of that. In the end these companies are not exclusively golf companies so it makes it easier for them to just drop golf products.

 

Lastly, I think that golf clubs in general are overpriced and I think that companies are going to have lower their prices in the future and extend their product cycles while spending less money in R&D doing so. This is really the only way they are going to get people to buy more clubs. Also, I find this notion that Rory and all the other tour pros sponsored by Nike are magically going to improve by switching companies totally hilarious. Just my thoughts on the matter you can feel free to disagree with me.

 

I agree with everything you said. I'm a bit of a traditionalist and grew up with Slazenger, Wilson, MacGregor, but the quality of the VR line meant that I almost had a full bag of Nike clubs for three years. The STR8-Fit Tour driver, original VR forged wedges and Split Cavities were out of the top drawer. I think when Nike made traditional looking equipment they really excelled. If they had released the MM Proto as it looked rather than the Volt coloured Vapor Line I think they would have cleaned up.

 

... Slazenger, Wilson & MacGregor... all at one time great golf club manufacturers who are either gone or irrelevant. I bring this up to just make the point that things change. Who knows who will be the big names in golf in 30 years.

 

Nike is out of golf equipment business for one reason and one reason only IMO. They aren't a golf equipment company!!! Not that their equipment was inferior or the market is crashing. It's because Nike IS A CLOTHING AND SHOES company, NOT a golf company. They pushed uphill into a crowded market place and couldn't take it over with the Swoosh. So they stop doing it and stick to doing what they're good at which is apparel. And their business will continue to grow in golf shirts!

 

Again, I largely agree. 30 years ago, Nike wasn't a recognised player in the clothing and shoes markets but they quickly made inroads to the point where they became market leader. Under Armour...where were they 10 years ago? Nike pushed too hard too soon with products that didn't appeal to the traditional golf markets and initial impressions count. Their lines since the introduction of the VR range have been as good if not better than the other OEMs but the reputation for the early clubs has stuck.

 

I think the whole golf manufacturing business has got to slow down and only release new product when there is a valid advance over the current model. The product cycles have been crazy for years now, but slowly consumers have realised that the model released 6 years ago is not that different to today's latest and greatest. The margins for producing a range of golf clubs must be minuscule and it is understandable that Nike have retracted in order to bolster their bread and butter market and try and keep the likes of UA at bay...Adidas is trying to do exactly the same thing.

[ikarcuaso]

Uh, there's a prominent Apple logo on every "Apple iPhone", and the cell phone mkt was a new one to Apple at the time.

 

The point is, Interpol's stmt is a very broad one that isn't entirely true in all cases.

 

Nope. There was no smartphone (not cellphone) market when the iPhone came out. The introduction of the iPhone created a brand new market, it didn't enter a pre-existing one. And even if there was a pre-existing market at the time, Apple was/is a technology and consumer electronics company that was well poised and qualified to enter such a market.

 

It would be the same situation if Apple had decided to start making golf clubs and signed big names like Tiger and Rory. They wouldn't have had any legitimacy either.

It was the 1st smartphone with a multi-touch interface, but there were several smartphone devices prior to that. Google "what was the first smartphone?"

[jmck]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

 

Oh man. Can you remember the threads around here when TM went to white drivers? Truly apoplectic. Sooooo many people swore up and down that not only would they'd never own one but that it as a terrible gimmick that would be a huge flop and quite possibly the end of TM. Now you can't throw a five iron without hitting one, be it on tour, at your most expensive local CC or you cheapest local muni.

[youngunz5840]

As much as I like the Covert Forged I am debating on getting another set of Vapor Pro or PC irons. I was hoping the 2017 pro combos would come out.

[JPC187]

Something else to point out (if it has not already been pointed out) is that almost every "weekend warrior" or average joe smoe golfer I asked about Nike firmly believes that Tiger and Rory never actually played a club that Nike created and you/I could buy. Those same people believe you can buy DJs same clubs...Rickies...Days...whatever.

 

You have a HUGE problem when there are a lot of people believing that your top two brand ambassadors are secretly using clubs made by other people.

 

I am sure many will call this non-sense...but I challenge you to just converse w/ some non-golfWRX'rs and talk to them about this.

[Shilgy]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

 

Didn't all of these except Mizuno offer a plain black version? In other words something more eye pleasing to the masses was available?

No-I don't thinks so-does TM offer black in all of their whiteness? Frankly they are the ones that started the color thing imo. Would they be better black? Maybe. Funny thing is every single player I have played with, no exceptions, that commented on the blue driver has added that it is a very nice blue. Point being that TM started this-twice! First time was with the metal driver and now with the white. And it is called innovation. How in the heck is white innovative comapred to blue-or volt-or pink-or orange. And don't get me started on turbulators lol. :)

Play what you want to play is the bottom line. I don't think the Nike guys would be ragging on the Ping diehards if Ping had gone under. But hell, maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before. :(

[Interpol]

It was the 1st smartphone with a multi-touch interface, but there were several smartphone devices prior to that. Google "what was the first smartphone?"

 

Irrelevant. I never said the iPhone was the first smartphone.

 

However, the iPhone was a technology that disrupted the smartphone industry and made it explode into what it is today. It forced everyone else to play catch-up or die, and a few companies died (Nokia, Ericsson, BlackBerry). That's not "buying your way into legitimacy".

 

None of Nike's golf offerings were in any way disruptive, revolutionary, or terribly groundbreaking. That's the difference. They spent a lot of money hiring top talent to push their product, but obviously that wasn't enough.

[Shilgy]

Something else to point out (if it has not already been pointed out) is that almost every "weekend warrior" or average joe smoe golfer I asked about Nike firmly believes that Tiger and Rory never actually played a club that Nike created and you/I could buy. Those same people believe you can buy DJs same clubs...Rickies...Days...whatever.

 

You have a HUGE problem when there are a lot of people believing that your top two brand ambassadors are secretly using clubs made by other people.

 

I am sure many will call this non-sense...but I challenge you to just converse w/ some non-golfWRX'rs and talk to them about this.

really? I believe that half of wrx would believe that but the average Joe would have no idea imo.

[ikarcuaso]

It was the 1st smartphone with a multi-touch interface, but there were several smartphone devices prior to that. Google "what was the first smartphone?"

 

Irrelevant. I never said the iPhone was the first smartphone.

 

However, the iPhone was a technology that disrupted the smartphone industry and made it explode into what it is today. None of Nike's golf offerings were in any way disruptive, revolutionary, or groundbreaking.

 

Which proves my assertion, "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market", isn't true in all cases.

[Interpol]

Which proves my assertion, "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market", isn't true in all cases.

 

It proved nothing of the sort. Apple did not "buy its way to legitimacy" in the smartphone market.

 

Nike tried (and failed) to make and sell golf clubs that really didn't offer much of a performance advantage over other more established golf equipment companies that have been around for much longer than they have. If you're a new player in an industry, you need to offer something that makes your product unique and offers a benefit over the other guys, whether that's in performance or price (or ideally, both). Can't survive on marketing alone.

[Shilgy]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

 

Oh man. Can you remember the threads around here when TM went to white drivers? Truly apoplectic. Sooooo many people swore up and down that not only would they'd never own one but that it as a terrible gimmick that would be a huge flop and quite possibly the end of TM. Now you can't throw a five iron without hitting one, be it on tour, at your most expensive local CC or you cheapest local muni.

I gotta admit that was BW** for me.

 

Can you imagine if these guys had not won right away with them? The colored fad might never have happened.

http://www.golfwrx.com/4739/why-white-worked-for-taylormade/

 

**before wrx

[jacot23]

so let me get this straight-Nike was the one that was gaudy and just... just... wrong?

 

Didn't all of these except Mizuno offer a plain black version? In other words something more eye pleasing to the masses was available?

No-I don't thinks so-does TM offer black in all of their whiteness? Frankly they are the ones that started the color thing imo. Would they be better black? Maybe. Funny thing is every single player I have played with, no exceptions, that commented on the blue driver has added that it is a very nice blue. Point being that TM started this-twice! First time was with the metal driver and now with the white. And it is called innovation. How in the heck is white innovative comapred to blue-or volt-or pink-or orange. And don't get me started on turbulators lol. :)

Play what you want to play is the bottom line. I don't think the Nike guys would be ragging on the Ping diehards if Ping had gone under. But hell, maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before. :(

 

100% agree with that part. Pretty sure you can get most of the TM heads in black, but that is beside the point. Yes, most of those are UGLY and I wouldn't play them either. I honestly don't love Callaway and Ping's matte black heads either and the turbulators are just stupid. I hate that Nike got out even though I doubt very seriously I'd ever game them; yes I have tried out their drivers and irons, several models.

[ikarcuaso]

Which proves my assertion, "A company with longstanding, established brand perception can't buy its way to legitimacy in a new market", isn't true in all cases.

 

It proved nothing of the sort. Apple did not "buy its way to legitimacy" in the smartphone market.

 

Nike tried (and failed) to make and sell golf clubs that really didn't offer much of a performance advantage over other more established golf equipment companies that have been around for much longer than they have. If you're a new player in an industry, you need to offer something that makes your product unique and offers a benefit over the other guys, whether that's in performance or price (or ideally, both). Can't survive on marketing alone.

 

Virgin

American Express

Cisco

Tesla

McDonald’s

HBO

Microsoft

Coke

Amazon

Facebook

 

I can keep typing, and we can nitpick every little example. It isn't always easy, and the degrees of penetration ,

 

success, etc. vary, but a company can buy into a new market.

[Smash Factors]

I love how this has turned into a "Who made the ugliest clubs" thread.

[DatSliceDoe]

I love how this has turned into a "Who made the ugliest clubs" thread.

 

Well...

 

[youngunz5840]

Dont you dare talk bad about my beloved SQ drivers or I will tie you down and hit a top flite next to your ear rendering you deaf. Those things are dead straight but man I was doing a fitting with someone who had one indoors in the GS sims and couldnt hear for the rest of the day. The guy asked why he should switch to the Covert 2.0 at the time and I said for your health.

[Smash Factors]

I'll play along...

[Shilgy]

I'll play along...

Yours and the guy before you had nothing on these

[Shilgy]

Jacot23 above post 1271 and others...

 

Funny how we all have our bias' with regards to clubs. I have not played anything Callaway since they thumbed their noses at USGA rules with the illegal ERC non conforming driver.

[Interpol]

Virgin

American Express

Cisco

Tesla

McDonald’s

HBO

Microsoft

Coke

Amazon

Facebook

 

I can keep typing, and we can nitpick every little example. It isn't always easy, and the degrees of penetration ,

 

success, etc. vary, but a company can buy into a new market.

 

Rattling off a list of company names without saying exactly what new markets they bought into does absolutely nothing to support your claim.

[lopey986]

Nike should have at least OFFERED a Black/White offering of their woods. Cobra has all kinds of colors but they still offer the simple basic color because plenty of people don't want to play crazy s***. The LE VFP blacked out driver sold out FAST, they'd have done much better that way.