USGA Proposes to Modernize Rules of Golf

[nsxguy]

Prediction

 

2 new Rules that will NOT make the cut.

 

1) The flagstick left in

 

2) Fixing spike marks (although some moderated form of this may make it)

[Augster]

I'm with you on the flagstick. I'll be surprised if that is left as is.

 

Fixing spike marks will be left in the book. It doesn't take any extra time for most players, and there aren't that many marks anymore with nearly everyone using soft spikes or spikeless.

 

I can take 20 seconds fixing my ball mark, or anyone's ball mark, in my line, possibly multiple times, but I can't take the 2 seconds to tap down 1 spike mark next to the hole? Never made any sense to me and I'm glad they addressed it.

[sui generis]

Prediction

 

2 new Rules that will NOT make the cut.

 

1) The flagstick left in

 

2) Fixing spike marks (although some moderated form of this may make it)

 

I predict that those two will be adopted. What might not is the drop measuring units of 20" and 80". :golfer:

[QEight]

What might not is the drop measuring units of 20" and 80". :golfer:

 

I hope that, as I find this more difficult than club lengths. Even though most of the drop areas will be shorter than that.

[Sawgrass]

What might not is the drop measuring units of 20" and 80". :golfer:

 

I hope that, as I find this more difficult than club lengths. Even though most of the drop areas will be shorter than that.

 

I love the idea of not having to drop precisely on a spot or on a line, but rather within 20 inches of either side of the spot or line. And while having to measure two, 40 inch segments sounds harder than measuring two club-lengths, putting that middle line drawn on your club down on the spot or line and instantly seeing the 20 inch area on either side seems delightful.

[wadesworld]

 

 

I hope that, as I find this more difficult than club lengths. Even though most of the drop areas will be shorter than that.

 

Twenty inches is basically half a driver. 80 inches is just short of two drivers. If someone plays in very serious tournaments, they might consider putting a mark/tape at 20 and 40 inches. But as the USGA says "measure or estimate" when talking about the drop areas, I think for the VAST majority of golfers, nobody is going to think twice if you estimate 20 inches using half your driver, especially if you "drop" the ball substantially within that area, not flirting with the edges.

 

While I had the same reaction initially, I don't think it's going to be a huge deal. That said, I'm sure some enterprising marketer is going to come up with a 20-and-80-inch measuring stick to stick in your bag that they will sell on late night TV.

[LeoLeo99]

The 20" to 80" rule is a lot easier to understand for the majority of golfers. People are constantly confused by which club to measure with when the rule is 2 club lengths. They don't know it it's any club, the longest club, or most often, if it's the club they will use to hit the next shot.

[TerpFangolfer]

They don't know it it's any club, the longest club, or most often, if it's the club they will use to hit the next shot.

 

But all of those are legal...its just by not knowing they aren't giving themselves max advantage (if for ex, they use their 5i instead of the D)

 

I filled in the poll - most strenuously against spike marks...and against the caddies standing behind.

 

I don't really care about the flag - we do it all the time in ready golf...generally from 50'+ so the chance of hitting the stick is minimal anyway. so now it wouldn't be a penalty if it happened to hit it.

Agree, though its a bad look for TV - if the pros decide that Pelz is right and leave the pin in for most of the putts...ugly!

[jslane57]

20 instead of one club. Shorter, I like this, free relief need not change your flight lines. 80 inches instead of two club lengths. I guess they will shorten alignment rods to 40 inches, or at least put markings on them.

 

For TV sake, it would be great to get rid of caddies aligning the players. The flag stick is interesting. I would like to see it in for long putts on TV where you really have no idea where the hole is. I bet for short putts most the players would opt to take the stick out, Pelz aside, one firmly stuck 3 footer bounced out by the flag and it's never left in again.

 

Spike marks, as long as they can only tap them down with the putter. If they allow repairing, it could get ridiculous.

[Sawgrass]

20 instead of one club. Shorter, I like this, free relief need not change your flight lines. 80 inches instead of two club lengths. I guess they will shorten alignment rods to 40 inches, or at least put markings on them.

 

 

 

Your suggestion for a new "use" of alignment rods piqued my interest given this Decision. Be sure there's no alignment potential while measuring!

 

14-3/10.3

 

Use of Rod During Round for Alignment or as Swing Aid

 

Q.During a stipulated round, may a player use a rod or similar device to check his alignment or his swing plane?

 

A.No. The player would be using an artificial device or unusual equipment to assist him in his play in breach of Rule 14-3. Carrying the rod or similar device is not, of itself, a breach of a Rule. (Revised)

[LeoLeo99]

20 instead of one club. Shorter, I like this, free relief need not change your flight lines. 80 inches instead of two club lengths. I guess they will shorten alignment rods to 40 inches, or at least put markings on them.

 

 

 

Your suggestion for a new "use" of alignment rods piqued my interest given this Decision. Be sure there's no alignment potential while measuring!

 

14-3/10.3

 

 

Use of Rod During Round for Alignment or as Swing Aid

 

 

Q.During a stipulated round, may a player use a rod or similar device to check his alignment or his swing plane?

 

A.No. The player would be using an artificial device or unusual equipment to assist him in his play in breach of Rule 14-3. Carrying the rod or similar device is not, of itself, a breach of a Rule. (Revised)

 

 

If the rule changes to 20 to 80", they will have to allow you to carry a measurement device. Stick or tape measure.. right? You can't make a rule 20 to 80" and then prohibit any way to accurately approximate such a distance.

[LeoLeo99]

They don't know it it's any club, the longest club, or most often, if it's the club they will use to hit the next shot.

 

But all of those are legal...its just by not knowing they aren't giving themselves max advantage (if for ex, they use their 5i instead of the D)

 

 

 

Exactly. But it still causes confusion needlessly.

[pbcolt]

re: Time allowed for a ball search

 

I've always thought this rule should include one or both of the following additions:

 

- That only the player, caddie, their playing partner(s) and their caddie(s) can search for the ball.

- In non-tournament play if the player is "reasonably certain" that a ball remained in play in a particular area that player can drop a ball with no penalty.

 

I think it's unfair that a pro can have a hundred people and cameras to identify where their ball went and an amateur only has 5, now 3, minutes to look by themselves. I'm a little biased because I play Torrey Pines a lot, and for months the rough is extremely thick, so much so that you can sit on the tee, watch a ball either land or roll from the fairway into the rough, a bush, etc., walk over to that spot and not be able to find it in 3 minutes.

 

I doubt the USGA would want to slow down the pros even more by making them search for their own balls, and realistically fans would be indicating/circling around where the ball is, so I realize that first one is unlikely.

[Sawgrass]

20 instead of one club. Shorter, I like this, free relief need not change your flight lines. 80 inches instead of two club lengths. I guess they will shorten alignment rods to 40 inches, or at least put markings on them.

 

 

 

Your suggestion for a new "use" of alignment rods piqued my interest given this Decision. Be sure there's no alignment potential while measuring!

 

14-3/10.3

 

 

Use of Rod During Round for Alignment or as Swing Aid

 

 

Q.During a stipulated round, may a player use a rod or similar device to check his alignment or his swing plane?

 

A.No. The player would be using an artificial device or unusual equipment to assist him in his play in breach of Rule 14-3. Carrying the rod or similar device is not, of itself, a breach of a Rule. (Revised)

 

 

If the rule changes to 20 to 80", they will have to allow you to carry a measurement device. Stick or tape measure.. right? You can't make a rule 20 to 80" and then prohibit any way to accurately approximate such a distance.

 

The USGA's website video shows a player with three marks on his club. One near the grip, one 20" down from that, one 20" further down. The two outlying marks are 40" apart. Use the center line to display 20" on either side of it, use the 40" apart lines twice to measure 80", much like we currently measure two club lengths.

 

You wouldn't need an 80 inch long device any more than you need a super long club now. (Also, with the described leniency regarding inaccurate measurements, there's another lessening of the need for a device.)

[Shilgy]

 

 

The flagstick is the same diameter at the hole level where the ball will be hitting it after a putt. It will also be quite firm because it is held in place 4" below that. What the stick is made out of is nearly irrelevant at hole level for bounce characteristics.

 

Aug, not sure if I'm reading you correctly but different material and diameter flagsticks most definitely create a different bounce off them on chips.

[Augster]

 

 

The flagstick is the same diameter at the hole level where the ball will be hitting it after a putt. It will also be quite firm because it is held in place 4" below that. What the stick is made out of is nearly irrelevant at hole level for bounce characteristics.

 

Aug, not sure if I'm reading you correctly but different material and diameter flagsticks most definitely create a different bounce off them on chips.

 

A different bounce if it hits the flagstick higher up. Not at green level. If it rolls across the ground, like a putt which is what we are talking about, and hits the flagstick in the hole you'll get the same bounce regardless of what common flagstick material it is made of.

 

When a ball hits higher up on the flagstick, then the characteristics of the flag actually matter. How wide it is. How much it flexes. Is it windy. Etc.

 

A rolling ball will ricochet at ground level just about the same whether that 3/4" shaft is fiberglass, wood, steel, or aluminum.

[North Butte]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

Even as they are proposing numerous very down to earth and sensible clean-ups to the Rules, inthe midst of it they suggest turning one of you shafts into a rudimentary yardstick. They just can't help themselves, I guess.

[Shilgy]

 

 

The flagstick is the same diameter at the hole level where the ball will be hitting it after a putt. It will also be quite firm because it is held in place 4" below that. What the stick is made out of is nearly irrelevant at hole level for bounce characteristics.

 

Aug, not sure if I'm reading you correctly but different material and diameter flagsticks most definitely create a different bounce off them on chips.

 

A different bounce if it hits the flagstick higher up. Not at green level. If it rolls across the ground, like a putt which is what we are talking about, and hits the flagstick in the hole you'll get the same bounce regardless of what common flagstick material it is made of.

 

When a ball hits higher up on the flagstick, then the characteristics of the flag actually matter. How wide it is. How much it flexes. Is it windy. Etc.

 

A rolling ball will ricochet at ground level just about the same whether that 3/4" shaft is fiberglass, wood, steel, or aluminum.

Agree to disagree then. My club went a few years with flagsticks that absolutely repelled rolling chips.

[Seamus_McDuff]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

 

Shaft manufacturers will probably do it for you.

[rogolf]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

Even as they are proposing numerous very down to earth and sensible clean-ups to the Rules, inthe midst of it they suggest turning one of you shafts into a rudimentary yardstick. They just can't help themselves, I guess.

 

As I understand it, parts of the purpose of the distance change and dropping change are to eliminate players from "gaming" the current Rules by dropping in a way and place that ensures they will get to place the ball after two drops, and also to ensure that the ball is played from nearer the nearest point of relief.

This simplifies Rule 20 significantly. While I might question how they came up with 50 cm and 2 m, the 50 cm is rumoured to be arbitrary and it was intended that one was a multiple of the other.

[sui generis]

re: Time allowed for a ball search

 

I've always thought this rule should include one or both of the following additions:

 

- That only the player, caddie, their playing partner(s) and their caddie(s) can search for the ball.

- In non-tournament play if the player is "reasonably certain" that a ball remained in play in a particular area that player can drop a ball with no penalty.

 

I think it's unfair that a pro can have a hundred people and cameras to identify where their ball went and an amateur only has 5, now 3, minutes to look by themselves. I'm a little biased because I play Torrey Pines a lot, and for months the rough is extremely thick, so much so that you can sit on the tee, watch a ball either land or roll from the fairway into the rough, a bush, etc., walk over to that spot and not be able to find it in 3 minutes.

 

I doubt the USGA would want to slow down the pros even more by making them search for their own balls, and realistically fans would be indicating/circling around where the ball is, so I realize that first one is unlikely.

 

I'm certain that the ruling bodies do not care a whit about the travelling circus or any other professional tour. Their focus is on their respective open championships, amateur championships and high level amateur men's, women's, and junior events. That said, they really do care passionately about all amateur golf, too.

[Sean2]

I heard on PGA Tour radio that the executive committee of the USGA, with the exception of Mike Davis, is made up of people who do not receive any compensation and pay their own expenses. I would submit that these folks are not your average muni golfer and have no clue what the average golfer needs and wants.

For example, the groove rule. Most golfers have trouble spinning the ball around the green as it is. What does the USGA do in its infinite wisdom? And, the rule affected the professionals not one iota (not to mention all the retooling the OEMs had to do).

• 0
  

[rogolf]

 

I heard on PGA Tour radio that the executive committee of the USGA, with the exception of Mike Davis, is made up of people who do not receive any compensation and pay their own expenses. I would submit that these folks are not your average muni golfer and have no clue what the average golfer needs and wants.

 

For example, the groove rule. Most golfers have trouble spinning the ball around the green as it is. What does the USGA do in its infinite wisdom? And, the rule affected the professionals not one iota (not to mention all the retooling the OEMs had to do).

• 0
  

 

They may or may not be "your average muni golfer" but that does not infer that they do not know what is best for the game of golf. I'd submit that they are focused on the needs of the game, not the wants of any particular group of golfers.

[North Butte]

They are focused on furthering one particular vision of "the game" shared by the sort of people who are interested in working for USGA. It is a perfectly cromulent vision but hardly the only one.

 

What a PGA Tour player thinks is the essence of "the game" overlaps with but is not identical to USGA's. And my own ideal of "the game" likewise is not identical to either of those.

[Sawgrass]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

 

 

Extreme hyperpole? I hope so.

 

I'm imagining the USGA sitting around a table watching a video of a focus group guy saying that. An executive is asked to react. "Maybe golf isn't for everyone."

 

 

 

Edit: As so eloquently pointed out below, hyperbole makes more sense than hyperpole.

[Augster]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

 

 

Extreme hyperpole? I hope so.

 

I'm imagining the USGA sitting around a table watching a video of a focus group guy saying that. An executive is asked to react. "Maybe golf isn't for everyone."

 

I'm with you Saw.

 

You don't HAVE to make any marks on your club whatsoever. Just drop within 20" on free drops and 80" on penalty drops.

 

You'll be in compliance whether you mark your club or not.

 

Quit the game over continuous 5-hour rounds. The inches we are allowed to drop is really a non-issue. On a driver, from the end of the club to the bottom of the grip is the 40" they are talking about.

[b.helts]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

 

 

Extreme hyperpole? I hope so.

 

I'm imagining the USGA sitting around a table watching a video of a focus group guy saying that. An executive is asked to react. "Maybe golf isn't for everyone."

 

After our round, while having a few beers, my buddies and I discussed the benefits of watching women engage in extreme hyperpole.

[wadesworld]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

Even as they are proposing numerous very down to earth and sensible clean-ups to the Rules, inthe midst of it they suggest turning one of you shafts into a rudimentary yardstick. They just can't help themselves, I guess.

 

They say very clearly that you should measure OR ESTIMATE. In short, unless you clearly overestimated in order to gain an an advantage, nobody's going to make a big deal. Want 20 inches? That's a bit less than half your driver. 80 inches? About 2 drivers minus a grip length.

 

It's not that hard.

[sui generis]

I would quit the game and take up Pickleball before I put measuring marks on a club to use for taking drops.

 

Even as they are proposing numerous very down to earth and sensible clean-ups to the Rules, inthe midst of it they suggest turning one of you shafts into a rudimentary yardstick. They just can't help themselves, I guess.

 

They say very clearly that you should measure OR ESTIMATE. In short, unless you clearly overestimated in order to gain an an advantage, nobody's going to make a big deal. Want 20 inches? That's a bit less than half your driver. 80 inches? About 2 drivers minus a grip length.

 

It's not that hard.

 

However, wade, what I see is it's even easier to measure one club-length or two club-lengths. No guessing or estimates needed. :)

[ratspros]

Who checks to make sure the 20" mark on your shaft is actually 20". Do you get a tape measurer out on the first hole and make sure everyone's mark is conforming.

 

I'm assuming most measurement marks will be from the grip down. What if I get plugs in the end to extend my shaft an inch but forget to move up my mark on the shaft an inch?

 

1 club length and 2 club lengths works just fine. Why fix something that's not broken?

 

If it's for the causal golfer that doesn't know when it's one club or two clubs do you honestly think they'll know when it's 20" or 80"?

 

To call this measuring change rubish is an understatement.

 

What happens when inevitably the mark ends up instead of being a ring around the shaft but Is a ring that comes to a point marking the exact 20" length. Then do we start charging people strokes because it could be looked at as an alignment aide?

 

It's just dumb. It's all dumb.