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Bonneville85308

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  1. The member-owned clubs I've been a member of in the past usually had caps of 300-350 unrestricted golf members. This can be slightly misleading, as similar to what @Phreddy mentioned, two spouses counted as one member towards this cap, plus there were usually additional people with restricted golf privilege memberships, some corporate memberships that had several "designees", etc. so the actual number of golfers could be way higher. The peak membership at one of those clubs when I was there was probably 325 unrestricted golf members (hit the cap) plus the spouses and restricted members during the mid 2000s. Most of the unrestricted members were very active and there were a lot of spouses who played. There were a lot of retirees who played almost every day. Guest fees were very reasonable and the only restriction was guests couldn't play early weekend mornings, so there was a lot of guest play. Tee time availability was very tight in the mornings and early afternoons unless you planned ahead a few days or were a single willing to play with anyone, and they did a lottery for the early AM weekend times. They used 8 minute tee time intervals to get more people on the course and it led to slow play problems by late morning. At a different club, we had about 200 unrestricted golf members, at least half of whom probably played less than 50 rounds per year, with few playing spouses, few retired "play every day" types, no corporate memberships, and high guest fees that seemed to discourage guest play. The course was always wide open, you never needed a tee time even on a weekend morning, just show up and tee right off. If @vallygolf is around Phoenix, he is no doubt aware of the situation at the lower-end corporate owned clubs that are completely packed with members right now since COVID, and it's easier to get a tee time and play a faster round at a public course instead. I don't know if those clubs have any actual cap on number of members or if they just keep taking peoples' money.
  2. lol I was wondering how long it would take someone to jump on him about RM.
  3. Aguila this morning. I think they mowed the fairways since @chisag played, they weren't shaggy and all the pushcart tracks were gone. I had thought the course would be a swampy mess with zero roll, but that wasn't true at all. The ball was rolling a bit, no puddles or mudholes, ball wasn't picking up much dirt, and I found myself over clubbing everything in false anticipation of no roll on most approach shots. It was nowhere near as soaked and muddy as many other courses are when they are 2 days out of overseed. Pace 3:20 as a foursome but we were out there early.
  4. Play a busy course early in the morning on the weekend, booking into a time slot where a twosome or threesome has already booked. Anyone else playing at that time who has played golf before knows they are going to probably have a 4th added to their group. Otherwise, if they are unwelcoming jerks, they either bring their own 4th or play later in the day when they don't think someone will get put with them.
  5. I am actually seeing some high-volume courses start to do certain maintenance work like fairway/rough mowing late in the day, when the course has few people on it, especially the front nine. One has a guy that doesn't start work until like 3pm and he mows whatever holes he can that don't have people on them. These are courses that start sending 18-hole players off #1 and 9-hole players off #10 as soon as there is enough light to see. They are changing holes and mowing most of the greens in the dark using mowers with headlights. If one course I am familiar with has a more intensive maintenance operation like topdressing or aeration, they will schedule it for the two deadest days of the week (Tuesday and Wednesday), say no 9-holer play off the opposite nine those days, start everyone on #1 on Tuesday while they work on the back, start everyone on #10 Wednesday while they work on the front, and start tee times an hour later than usual on those days. Also the starter will warn the first few groups, if they play faster than a 3 hour/18 hole pace, they are going to run into maintenance on their second nine and won't be let through.
  6. Yep, I've walked it several times before, and I generally don't walk courses unless the green-to-tee transitions are fairly short. They routed it in a very walkable fashion for a housing development course, the longest walk is maybe 600-700' from 9 green to 10 tee and most are way less than that. After being for sale for a couple years, it changed ownership this past summer and I understand the new ownership wants to spruce up some details that were let go under the prior regime.
  7. Yeah league nights were always great for me to meet fellow members when I was new. It was customary at my last club that most people stuck around for dinner/drinks afterwards (the club put out a good buffet for a cheap price that was ready to eat when everyone came in from the league shotgun) and you would usually sit with the people you played with and possibly another team or two.
  8. I only say something regarding the rules if it's a money match or a tournament, and I am absolutely certain that I am correct. Otherwise the only thing I point out is if they are causing slow play or a safety hazard.
  9. Some updates from the last few days: Ken McDonald - I was surprised how dried out/firm they had it for being more than week remaining before overseed closure on 10/18. As a short hitter who struggles with getting on the green in 2 on holes like 16 and 18, I really enjoyed playing this course in firm conditions for once. Greens were really slow though. Paired with 3 other quick players who were a pleasure to play with and we finished in 3:30 after playing through a group on the front. One thing that keeps me from playing/walking this course more is the walk from 9 green to 10 tee and 16 green to 17 tee. Fortunately one of the guys in the group on a cart by himself gave me a ride. One of the great mysteries I want to figure out before I die is why #9 is always CPO with a giant curb and signs warning you that if you hop the curb you will be told to leave the property. Did someone drive a cart into the pond back in 1993 or something? Encanto - Nowhere near as dried out/firm as Kenny Mac about a week before overseed closure, but in good condition all around. Greens were in great condition except for the front of #1 and a small part on the right side of #5. Paired with 3 other friendly walkers and finished in about 3:15 with an early tee time. Dobson Ranch - Played 3 days before overseed closure. Firm/browned out fairways as expected, although some of the fairway grass seemed "fluffed up" somehow, like in preparation for scalping, so had a lot of good lies. Greens were in great condition and what I would consider fast for a muni course. Bunkers were terrible, between myself and my friends we were probably in 8 of them and they were all like absolute concrete. Driving range was packed with people. Got a little concerned about the pace on the front, as we waited on most shots and finished in 2:15 which is pathetic for a pre-7am tee time. I figured we were screwed from the start when a young guy in a group ahead of us was running out of the pro shop holding his 1990s-era bag by the trunk handle in one hand, a White Claw in the other, and asking someone where the first tee was. However, it picked up on the back nine and we finished 18 at the 4:05 mark.
  10. Good. Might keep the slow people away from that course. I read a few of the negative reviews just now and in all of them they either admit or it can be inferred that they weren't keeping up with the group ahead of them and were pissed that the rangers were trying to do something about it.
  11. On weekends now I almost always play in one of the first 6 or so tee times of the day, as a single paired with others who booked the same tee time. The caliber/type of randoms that are dewsweepers are entirely different from what you might encounter teeing off at 11am. They know and expect that they are going to be playing with other randoms, they never act like it's some "how dare they put people with me" surprise. Random dewsweepers are good people 99.9% of the time, usually play fast and know etiquette regardless of skill. Just about always a pleasure, and I get to meet all different folks, sometimes we get paired together again, sometimes we become friends, sometimes we never see each other again.
  12. This is the problem with this sort of policy. The only way I see around it is to have extremely aggressive rangering to either speed up the offending slow group as soon as a gap opens, or kick them off the course entirely, early enough that the group stuck behind them can still finish within the time limit.
  13. Legend Trail is the better course of the two by far. Dove Valley is not one that is usually on the recommended list for tourists on a short trip. It is waaaaay below the quality of your list you already played, and not really worth what they charge in the cooler months. It's not truly awful IMO, you could do a lot worse, but it has a fairly boring front nine and a bunch of tight targety holes on the back that turn people off. The conditions I've seen when playing it are "average" at best and mediocre at average. It's more of a course for locals and snowbirds.
  14. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done. Personally, I would pay a bit more to play a course that prides itself on maintaining a quick pace of play. There are courses in my area that I refuse to play at any time or price because the pace is consistently awful. I don't think the slow players should be rewarded with anything free. Maybe a solution is to just enforce that play for the first hour of tee times each day is expected to be in less than 4 hours, communicate that clearly and multiple times when those tee times are booked, price those times a little higher. If you are the first group of the day to exceed 4 hours with one of those tee times, you lose your right to book those early times. The unwritten rule at many courses is that the early groups are expected to be fast, and many fast players gravitate towards those times already. This just makes it official. Those times will continue to attract fast players willing to pay a premium to ensure a fast round...and I think those are the types of repeat customers you would want.
  15. Which course at We-Ko-Pa, Saguaro or Cholla? I think Saguaro is more forgiving for the higher handicapper or one who struggles to hit the ball straight. You will probably be playing in the first few days after they re-open from overseeding, so the ball isn't going to be rolling much. You'll be fine on the whites at TPC Champions for sure. If you are a legitimate 17 handicap you are better skilled than the average tourist who plays these courses and have nothing to worry about if you play the appropriate tees for your distances and skill.
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