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HISPL

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  1. Wow, way to go for taking snippets of my posts out of context to be able to support your position… It seems that you have this fixation that swing plane and shaft droop don’t equal dynamic lie… if that is the case what does? Higher levels of shaft droop are entirely possible with softer shaft profiles, higher hand position and higher swing speed aka more load on the shaft. Some players need a softer profile even at higher swing speeds so that their transition/timing isn’t thrown out. Strangely though, even though you can’t seem to actually add any corroborating data yourself, the theory presented seems to have made sense to @Trap Junior and the information he has come across from the guys at AMG seems to support this…
  2. Dynamic lie angle isn’t equivalent to swing plane at all, shaft droop obviously plays a role. Lexie and Curtis Thompson have about 40mm of shaft droop that roughly equates to 2 degrees. What influences this is “hand height” and how fast a player is swinging the club, if either one of these (or both) is higher, the resulting shaft droop will also be higher relatively speaking. Simply put, players with higher hands and more speed will have more shaft droop, and due to variations in these components of the golf swing the resulting droop will be different also. Now, with all that said if the actual amount of droop is less than the 7 degrees that I had used in my explanation then this means the static lie angle of the head is even more upright relative to what it should be. If we take the value for shaft droop as 4 degrees, with a 44 degree swing plane and a driver lie angle of day 58 degrees this means that the driver lie is 10 degrees too upright… worse still when it it might have a lie of 60 or more!
  3. I don’t think that this is coincidence at all, and to counter, what proof do you have that this is not an accurate assessment? If you can be bothered, have a look at the information that is available online about this subject when Gears 3D is used to capture data…
  4. I know, just edited to add it now, apologies but I’ve been up for 19 hours so I’m not at the peak performance level regarding my cognitive function.
  5. He has written a few papers but none on this topic. When I was assisting with collecting data for a project it was looking at clubs modified/designed to assist mobility impaired golfers. Previous testing in the golf space was conducted before I let him, I recall that it was for his thesis when completing his PHD. we had some interesting discussions over a few drinks regarding his testing and how from a fitting perspective I felt testing could be improved upon, it was great to be able to get that opportunity.
  6. @Stuart_G and @dokex this link may also be of interest, strangely I’ve only just found it searching tonight, but it seems to alight with my own thoughts/experiences and the information I’ve had access to. https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/64131-effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft/
  7. I did some data capture for an sports industry colleague (PHD/Professor at a local university) who had access to VICON but unfortunately didn’t get to use the equipment myself. When I get back into club fitting I’m keen to purchase a Gears 3D motion capture system, with that, GC Quad, TM 4 and good force plates I would feel much more comfortable in capturing the data that I feel would be important for world class fittings.
  8. Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. With driver lie angles there is the potential to see 10 degrees out or more, this not only influences “face angle” (Or more accurately how the loft is tilted) but also strike location too. Try getting a player to hit the slightly high, slightly toe “magic spot” on the club face angle when the lie angle is too upright by 8-10 degrees or potentially even more… You would be making what is a difficult task for some players even with well fitted equipment, much more challenging.
  9. Trackman has an average for the PGA Tour for driver swing plane listed at 45 degrees. Also, below if you care to read on is a some background on my experience with fittings and some of the findings that would found on a regular basis. Over 6 years I did approximately 4000 fittings as a Master Club Fitter, Level 2 certified Trackman operator, went to the Mitchell Golf “school” to get their certification as a “Master Club Performance Specialist” or whatever they called it, to be honest that was a pretty entry level/basic course. Had the opportunity on multiple occasions to meet with and discuss these sorts of topics with the folks at Callaway (Engineers at their HQ and around the corner at the Ely Callaway Performance Centre aka ECPC) which was great, I’ve learnt more from them and conversing with experts like Howard Jones and Tom Wishon than I did at the Mitchell Golf school. Don’t get me wrong, the school wasn’t that bad, but nowhere near as advanced as the course/certification name may suggest. So, in my experience I have found a lot of players, myself included regularly have a swing plane less than 50 degrees. Mine is around 43-45 when swinging well and some of my own experiences are below. Based on this, using my swing plane average of 44 degrees give or take means that with 7 degrees of shaft droop I should be using a driver with a lie angle somewhere in the vicinity of 51 degrees… Very hard to find in modern equipment. I measured a lot of drivers (Mainly Ping and TM at the time, this is 5-8 years back now) using a good morning quality spec gauge to be 59-61 degrees, take a look at a lot of the TM Tour Issue driver heads on online auction sites as an example, their spec stickers often show lie angle of 60 degrees, even when their published “standard” lie angle may have been around 58 degrees in the standard setting for the head. So with my swing plane of 44 degrees, if I had of been using one of the driver heads that had been measured at 61 degrees even with 7 degrees of droop in the golf shaft that would leave me at 10 degrees out on lie angle! So yes, this is very possible. Fortunately I was able to measure the spec on some models of Callaway heads at around 56 degrees lie, using the “tour issue” red dot flat lie angle adaptor allowed me to go another .75 degrees flat which got me closer to where I wanted to be. Another major part of the issue is that with lie angles being out that much it can really influence strike location on the club face which can make it very difficult for players to strike the ball solidly through no lack of effort/trying on their part!
  10. 8 degrees is likely more common than you think. it’s not unusual for players to have a swing plane around 45 degrees, even with a decent amount of shaft droop (6-7 degrees) it is reasonable to expect the lie to be our 7-8 degrees depending on the static loft of the driver.
  11. I understand that, but for most forum readers it is an easier concept to understand
  12. The D grind from Titleist has a lot of effective bounce, the X grind from Callaway has a more moderate effective bounce, but the difference isn’t massive. Try to demo the wedges, our local reps for Titleist and Callaway respectively have all the available options to try so hopefully they will in your area too.
  13. More weight towards the rear of the head will slightly increase the ability to close the face at impact, it will also launch the ball a little higher. Weights are pretty cheap online, Billy Bobs is also a good source for them.
  14. My understanding of this that the 8 degree difference in measured angle at impact and the static lie angle of the driver will give a face angle difference of 1.4 degrees on a 10 degree driver. (The higher the loft the bigger the difference in face angle). Personally I feel that this is significant enough that it could at least be a part of the problem that is causing the shot to go offline.
  15. That is because there is no tungsten in those irons. I believe the tungsten stops mid set with the 7 iron being the last one to get it included as part of the design. it seems that it simply isn’t needed to achieve the CG location that has been engineered into the 8,9,PW and AW.
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