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Everything posted by davidy1948

  1. Yep and add in sidesaddle putting, during which you're actually already facing the hole anyway, and you can't miss !
  2. As the OP for this topic, perhaps I can throw another question into the mix - can anyone tell me who invented the current conventional style of putting ? If you were going to invent a putting style from scratch, I can't imagine you'd start by standing side on to the hole so that you were putting blind would you ? The old photos we've all seen of the early Scottish golfers suggests they played a lot of full shots from a very open stance - probably due to the kind of equipment they had or constrictions of clothing making full swings difficult. So I would have thought it logical to adopt something similar for the shorter shots such as putting, where control and feel for distance are all important. Anyone have any insights ?
  3. Hardly think any self-respecting S+T teacher would approve of the chicken wing, but the straightened right leg looks familiar.
  4. Any S+T cynics notice that Andy Plummer student Alex Cejka just won 2 Majors in a row on the Champions Tour ?
  5. Interesting that Mangum, whose depth of knowledge and insight is most impressive in this area, questions the suitability of the hand for this process elsewhere in the post quoted because of extraneous factors. Sidesaddle putters create a fulcrum with one hand to reduce/eliminate this factor. Conventional putters use both hands without any control ! Yet that's somehow preferable...
  6. Seems ironic to me that he's gone to a fade just now - his most common miss ( with a couple of famous exceptions ) was a weak push fade with a high right shoulder, that lean to the right was always the telltale sign that he'd be in the trees... now he's switching to a ball flight which he's hated to see for his entire career..I'd love to get inside his head and see which neurons are firing to get that done ! Must be a real jumble and will take a while to clean up the hard drive and replace it with the new pattern. There are certainly plenty of top players still playing draws as mentioned but worth perhaps pointing out that many of the greats were primarily faders - Nicklaus the most prominent example. I remember reading in one of his books that at a certain point in his career for about 18 months he started drawing the ball without knowing why - and he didn't start playing well again until he went back to his customary fade. Making this change certainly pushed DJ forward and at the top level control is much more important than distance, so maybe Rory is doing the right thing, only time will tell. This win was all about the putter indeed, not normally a strength of his - if he ever gets that to an acceptable level then the rest can forget it !
  7. There is also no data-driven evidence that conventional putting is the best way to do it ..... Which leads me to wonder where the conventional style came from in the first place - who invented it and why ! Did one of those Scottish shepherds say to himself " I have to hit this ball into that tiny hole with this stick - so I'll turn sideways to my target so I can't see it at all and use both hands to strike it ".... I would love golf historians to chime in on this. All the historic pictures I've seen suggest that the older players used a very open stance so maybe they putted that way too ???
  8. Exactly my point, I'm currently testing how far my clubmates drive and so far if I translate those distances into swing speed I would estimate " average " as in the 75-80 range and that's being generous....so why would such an allegedly reputable organisation publish such misleading information ? Worse still, that information has been adopted as gospel by the USGA and other Golf Federations. I'm trying very hard to persuade my clubmates to play from the tees which are appropriate for their playing standard - it's already hard enough to get these guys to swallow their egos and move up a tee or two without this kind of nonsense.
  9. Very interesting to read in the article quoted above that in the Pelz anecdote the guy is using a totally different grip to the one predicated by all the advocates of this style - his right hand with its back to the target rather than behind the shaft in whatever configuration you choose. Initial practice on my home green suggests this causes a very stable face indeed and induces an SBST stroke.by paralysing the muscles which might otherwise affect the stroke path. Definitely worth further experiment !
  10. Trackman claims that the the average golfer has a swingspeed of 93.4 mph. I wouldn't rely on any instrument that is so far out of touch with reality....
  11. Well I'm very pleased to have stimulated such debate on this topic, much of it from people who are both smarter and better informed than I am ! As often happens when something radical is suggested, much of the response from traditionalists is rather defensive and aggressive at the same - reminds me of the launch of S+T all those years ago ( not very well handled by the S+T people themselves of course ) - now much of their thinking has been incorporated, often without attribution, into mainstream teaching. I think of sidesaddle at being the Fosbury Flop of putting - remember the ridicule that faced, how could you possibly jump over a bar by first turning your back on it ? It's a little disappointing that the pros have given it much of a shot - I do remember a brief flirtation by KJ Choi, and I heard that Dechambeau had looked at it before going to his current style - now that really would have been something ! I remain convinced that sidesaddle facing the hole is the way forward, just based on basic commonsense if nothing else. After all, it's the golf shot requiring the most precision - an inch left or right and it doesn't go in - so why would you deliberately turn your head away from that tiny target and opt to put blind ? Anyway my thanks to all who have contributed so far, I've already learnt a lot and maybe will learn more should there be future contributions.
  12. I have been putting sidesaddle for 2 years with good results thanks. In particular my distance control has improved dramatically and reduced my 3 putt level significantly.
  13. My apologies if this sis the wrong place for this topic, but I felt I had to ask - why are there so few sidesaddle putters around ? ( I hasten to add I have zero commercial interest ). Sidesaddle has 2 huge advantages over conventional in my view : 1. Even if you don't putt looking at the hole ( which I recommend ), by standing behind the putt sidesaddle and facing the hole you are still more conscious of the distance to the hole than the conventional " blind " putter, thus helping distance control 2. We see pros experimenting with more and more ridiculous looking grips to try and reduce rotation during the putting stroke - but with sidesaddle the putter head automatically stays square during the stroke and travels straight down the putting line I'm sure you're still highly sceptical, so let me quote from Dave Pelz's 300 page Putting BIble, page 40, describing sidesaddle : " I can't remember the name of the man who figured this out, but I give him credit : he found something that really does work....This technique produced the consistently best putting I have ever seen, and it is legal. But I'm certain that if someone switches to this style and starts winning with it, the USGA will probably ban it. " For those of you still doubting, let me ask this : I'm assuming most of the readers of this Forum are Americans, and many of you will no doubt have gone bowling at some time. How many of you turned sideways on to the lane and bowled your ball without looking at the pins ? Just asking...
  14. It's completely logical to look at your target when putting - it's the most precise stroke you have to make so why would you do it blind ? If someone asked you to throw a ball into a bucket you wouldn't look at the ball would you ? Now add in sidesaddle putting for the same reason and you're good to go !
  15. Bortass you really need to forget all this nonsense about new clubs and stuff and focus on your short game. Just reading your accounts of the 2 rounds you've played on this page alone I reckon with even half-decent nothing special chipping and putting you would be saving 5/6 shots per round. Just go back through your own stories and tell me I'm wrong ! Very rarely in all these 26 pages have I heard you mention practising your short game with any intensity or purpose - putting literally never ! Reading your accounts it sounds to me like your home course has quite tricky and slopey greens, so that has to be the best investment of your time. It also helps avoid the big numbers - just watch a certain Jordan Speith to prove it. That's what you should be trying to fix.......
  16. Actually I wasn't thinking about distances, more about forgiveness. From reading your course reports there seem to be plenty of mishits, so you need some tools which will minimise the damage as much as possible. Shovels with flexible shafts would seem to be ideal, until your ballstriking is consistent enough to benefit from something more sophisticated. I also echo the hybrid recommendation - those things are so damn easy to hit it feels like I'm cheating ! My longest iron is a 6 and that gets very little use....
  17. Are you still using those stiff-shafted blades or have you switched to something more sensible now ?
  18. Once a again to express my admiration for your honesty and perseverance, an inspiration for us all ! I do have an observation I'd like to make about the US handicapping system, as the rest of the world will shortly be adopting a modified version of this from Jan 1. When I read how you played holes 17 and 18, it's pretty clear that your real score on those holes, had you played them out, would have been much higher than the double bogey which is the highest score you're allowed to record. I find this very puzzling - surely we play a game with a huge emphasis on honesty and playing strictly by the rules - we are our own referees and are required to call penalties on ourselves ( and we sometimes see pros calling penalties for the most minute infringements barely detectable by the naked eye ). Yet somehow under this system we are required to tell a huge barefaced lie about our real score on a hole if it's too high ! I find this very hard to square with the philosophy behind our game, the very last game left in the world in which cheating or even the minutest suspicion of cheating is abhorrent. Could anyone else help me understand the thinking behind this ?
  19. I recently rediscovered Joe Dante's " Magic Move " early wrist break again and find it really helpful in a number of ways. I quote " To make the backward wristbreak we merely push the heel of the right hand down against the big knuckle of the left hand This is a downward pressure of the heel on the thumb ". As Dante says, doing this sets the hands in an ideal position to reach the " waiter " position at the top of the backswing. For me it also puts me in touch with my hands and makes me very aware of where they are during the backswing in general. Give it a try and see what happens.
  20. Good that you know what to do, maybe this Covid stuff will give you the push you need. Getting in shape can surely only reduce your risk of infection and improve your chances of survival should you catch it ?
  21. Your previous pro was spot on in what he was trying to achieve with you ! Not sure if your new guy so much - rereading your description of your first lesson with him I didn't spot anything that looked like he was going to address flaws in your swing mechanics. I often think we over - worship golf pros - of course by our standards they are excellent golfers, but I've stood on driving ranges listening to pros giving lessons and very rarely thought they are really addressing what their pupils need, or even that they understand how difficult the game is for us. Of course they are talented athletes who've been hitting a thousand balls a day since they were 4 years old..... from my own experience coaching in another ( much less technical ) sport I know personally how difficult it is to estimate what the maximum possible is for less talented individuals. I do have another avenue of enquiry for you - how do you prepare for a round ? Given your description of yourself physically, I'm guessing a dynamic stretching routine is not on the cards, but do you warm up on the range and short game areas ? And do you start with a swing thought in your head that you're going to focus on for that round ? I quite often find this while warming up on the range....
  22. Glad to hear about the shovels, that's a step n the right direction ! The reason for my previous question is that when I read your round descriptions and your range practices it's like watching a camel in the desert searching for water....I just don't get the feeling you have a big picture of what you're aiming to achieve with your swing long term. Your mention of S+T does reassure me a little - you're obviously aware that there are many theories about the best way to swing a club, all of them equally correct within their own parameters. Some people come to golf with plenty of athletic ability and/or good hand/eye coordination derived from other sports, and are able to reach some kind of acceptable golf swing quite quickly on the basis of that ( actually I was one of those people originally, came to golf via fairly high level cricket and squash ). You've been honest enough to admit that you are not one of those lucky people, but you love the game and are prepared to invest the time and effort in taking lessons and practising to get better. So it makes me sad to feel that you may be wasting so much of your time without a concrete goal... Your new pro says he wants to build on what you have rather than teaching you a completely new swing. That would be fine if you already had a solid foundation on which to build - but your misses seem to me to be so inconsistent I seriously doubt that such a foundation exists ? If your swing mechanics were solid and it was just a question of execution then that would be another story - but is that so ? This is just a suggestion : there are literally thousand of hours of free golf swing instruction from very capable teachers to be found on Youtube - why not trawl around those and see if there's one that you like the look and feel of, and try to follow that method as a model ( don't try mix and matching as many are incompatible ). Stack and Tilt happens to be the one I eventually arrived at because it's easy to remember, has relatively few moving parts to go wrong and aims for a push draw ball flight which is what you would like. I've steered some of my friends in that direction too with more than acceptable results. However, it doesn't really matter which one you choose, just pick one and then you have a model in your head on the driving range against which you can compare what you're doing. That gives you something to work towards and judge your performance against. If you don't have a frame of reference how can you evaluate what you're doing ? I hope you find this constructive and not too critical. We're all rooting for you brother !
  23. Well you're right, this all defies any conceivable logic I can think of ! I remember a comment by Sam Snead after playing in a pro-am - he said if these CEO's ran their businesses they way they approach their golf they would be bankrupt in 6 months. Let me try you on something else and you can astonish me with your reply.... when I'm reading your round descriptions I cannot discern any obvious main miss that you'ere trying to correct - it's a true somrgasbord of thins, fats, tops, chunks, fades, pulls - the only miss I can't remember is a hook. Do you actually have a clear idea of the swing model you're trying to replicate or are you just making it up as you go along ( and believe me I have a feel I already know the answer ! )
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