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MichiganMike

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  1. Holy shit. Just saw the Holly Sonders news about Vegas Dave after frankly not hearing about her for years. Made me look her up. When did she become full on Stripper Trash? How is she the same person? Talk about a train gone off the rails. She's got to be Exhibit 1 of mental illness or drug problem.
  2. [quote name='Ethandegraaf' timestamp='1428367249' post='11298757'] It is a total changing of the guard ! [/quote] Yep. And if this was a movie and not an attempt to capitalize on Rory in the moment, there'd be one more final scene with a picture of Rory on the wall and a young kid grabbing his clubs to join dad at the range. It's always "To Be Continued..."
  3. [quote name='fierra76' timestamp='1428365306' post='11298413'] [quote name='Tidster' timestamp='1428353975' post='11297003'] What does Tiger say to Rory after "good shot........" ?? [/quote] "Good shot there, man." [/quote] I came here to ask the same question. I kept hearing "Good shot Kevin." I wonder how many times Tiger's been paired with someone and never bothered to learn the guy's name. I'd bet money it happens from time to time on Tour and fairly often in pro ams.
  4. Towards - If we hit the ball well but in the wrong direction via a pull or push, we just say "my towards was off."
  5. [quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1409244505' post='10025461'] The only thing worse than slow play is reading about slow play. [/quote] One might also argue commenting on a slow play thread is worse...
  6. [quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1409245554' post='10025589'] [quote name='MichiganMike' timestamp='1409243562' post='10025369'] [quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1409235582' post='10024499'] #3 = Not a complaint at all. Just setting the record straight as a lot of people have the idea that caddies are so grossly overpaid for what they do. Some people do the math and figure "Wow he just made $200 for that loop and he's probably going to go out again this afternoon and make another $200 and if he does that 5 days a week he's making X amount of money per year." It's just not accurate. As a result of this thinking, some people give lousy tips solely because they think we're all making so much money and are so grossly overpaid and that's their way of justifying a lousy tip. [/quote] Count me among the group that thinks a caddie can do pretty well. (Note I said "can" do well and I never said "all caddies"). Let's say our guy does 2 loops a day and makes $300 a day at a high end resort and works just 5 days a week. That's $1500/week or a little more than $6000/month. Recognizing golf is seasonal, assume he spends 3 summer months in the north and 3 winter months in the south, working just a total of 6 months a year. That's $36K he's pulling in, likely in cash. For a guy who might not have a college degree, appreciates flexibility, and doesn't have any obligations tying him down, the caddie life isn't always too bad. [/quote] Concluding that a caddie will work 36 holes with double bags 5 days a week is beyond a stretch. I can't imagine that happens anywhere. Getting out twice doesn't happen nearly that often. Even during the busy season you might go 36 holes maybe twice a week. There's a very short window for going twice. If you're not teeing off by about 9:00, forget about it in most cases. Figuring you tee off at 9 and get done at 2 (5 hours is the norm at resorts). The last tee time of the day will be around 3:00 in the summer months. Those 3:00 groups are already on the range with their caddies by the time you get done. Their caddies are either guys that teed off at 7:30 and are back out for another loop or guys that haven't gotten out all day and are just now getting out. Going 36 with double bags 5 days in a row is not only logistcally improbable but also not physically sustainable. Getting out once a day is not even a guarantee. It's not uncommon to show up, wait around for 3 or 4 hours, not get out and be sent home. And you don't get paid anything for sitting around so those days are a total waste. Also, you don't always get to carry double bags every day. Sometimes you get stuck with a single bag (someone has to carry a single in a threesome or in a group where not everyone takes a caddie). Or you might get something like a forecaddie for 2 which doesn't pay much. Then factor in things like outings that don't take caddies, foreigners that don't understand the American custom of tipping and leave you high and dry, rainy days that wipe out play, no-shows, maintanance days, etc..... If you calculate the hourly wage and figure we made $150 for 5 hours of work than that's a $30-per hour job. On the surface, yes, that's great money. But don't forget to factor in the 2 hours of waiting, the hour we spent on the range with you and the additional hour we'll probably have to wait around when we get done to make sure the afternoon groups are covered. That $30 an hour quickly turns into about $16 an hour. And then the next day we wait around for a few hours and don't get out and that $16 an hour we made the day before turns into about $12 an hour. Then consider we're paying for our own health insurance, working weekends and holidays when we have families at home, traveling and living out of a suitcase for much of the year, etc. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining at all. I really enjoyed those years because I loved the work. I loved being on the golf course every day and I loved meeting new people and getting exercise and everything else. Just setting the record straight about this perception that caddies make 36k a year in cash for working 6 months of the year. Sorry. Not even close. I didn't even make anywhere near 36k and I caddied full-time nine months of the year (often going several weeks at a time without a day off). The ultimate reason I got out of the business was because when you add it all up in the end, the money just really isn't that great. Plus, there's no real room for advancement. You may get a tiny raise every several years as the caddie fee increases or the average tip may increase slightly over time to keep up with inflation, but it's not like you're going to get promoted or anything. Other than becoming a caddie master or landing on a Tour bag, there's no real ladder to climb. So I went back to the "real world" and got myself an office job with a salary, benefits and room for advancement. And yes, I do have a college degree [/quote] I don't disagree with you. Keep in mind all the qualifiers I had in my original statement. [color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Count me among the group that thinks a caddie [/background][/size][/color][color=#ff0000][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)][u][b]can[/b][/u][/background][/size][/color][color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] do pretty well. (Note I said "can" do well and I never said "all caddies"). Let's say our guy does 2 loops a day and makes $300 a day at a high end resort and works just 5 days a week. That's $1500/week or a little more than $6000/month. Recognizing golf is seasonal, assume he spends 3 summer months in the north and 3 winter months in the south, working just a total of 6 months a year. That's $36K he's pulling in, likely in cash. For a guy who [/background][/size][/color][color=#ff0000][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)][u][b]might not[/b][/u][/background][/size][/color][color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] have a college degree, appreciates flexibility, and doesn't have any obligations tying him down, the caddie life isn't [/background][/size][/color][color=#ff0000][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)][b][u]always[/u][/b][/background][/size][/color][color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] too bad.[/background][/size][/color] Adding to my original comments, I think caddying can be a viable alternative for some people. Think off all the horror stories about people who have loads of college debt and can't find jobs, or they're stuck working at Home Depot or some other underutilized job. For the low required education and low cost of entry into the field, caddying represents a decent opportunity. A young person can do it for several years, pocket some money, develop good people skills, and parlay it into something more "traditional" in the hospitality or resort industry. If I was 18-21 years old and didn't have the money and/or desire for college, I wouldn't mind a life where I caddied for a few months at a time, maybe in multiple locations according to climate. I could also supplement my income and sense of adventure with a stint working on a cruise ship. Other temporary jobs that complement caddying include ski resort worker, ranch hand, or river guide.
  7. Played a nice resort course a few weeks ago with a full tee sheet. Got through the first few holes at an acceptable pace before things started to slow. Then the pace really slowed down with multiple groups waiting on tees. At the 12th hole the group in front of us finally called the pro shop and requested ranger support. Turns out the ranger rode the course backwards to find the jam up. Hole 18 - wide open. Hole 17 - wide open. Hole 16 - wide open. Hole 15 - wide open. Hole 14 - finally a group and the source of the jam up. How do you get at least 4 holes behind? And how is the group immediately behind them not all over them?
  8. [quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1409235582' post='10024499'] #3 = Not a complaint at all. Just setting the record straight as a lot of people have the idea that caddies are so grossly overpaid for what they do. Some people do the math and figure "Wow he just made $200 for that loop and he's probably going to go out again this afternoon and make another $200 and if he does that 5 days a week he's making X amount of money per year." It's just not accurate. As a result of this thinking, some people give lousy tips solely because they think we're all making so much money and are so grossly overpaid and that's their way of justifying a lousy tip. [/quote] Count me among the group that thinks a caddie can do pretty well. (Note I said "can" do well and I never said "all caddies"). Let's say our guy does 2 loops a day and makes $300 a day at a high end resort and works just 5 days a week. That's $1500/week or a little more than $6000/month. Recognizing golf is seasonal, assume he spends 3 summer months in the north and 3 winter months in the south, working just a total of 6 months a year. That's $36K he's pulling in, likely in cash. For a guy who might not have a college degree, appreciates flexibility, and doesn't have any obligations tying him down, the caddie life isn't always too bad.
  9. As an update, I'll share the good and the bad of my experience now that I've had it. Despite the website of our course saying there's a caddie fee of $50 plus a recommended tip of $35, when we checked in it was volunteered to us that we paying everything to the caddie in cash (good) and the "expected" amount is $100-$140 (bad). We didn't argue it since we were treating the day as a splurge anyway and gave the guy $120 at the end. And since he double-bagged, he did more than ok because the other bag also gave him the same.
  10. [quote name='techjunkee' timestamp='1407128295' post='9851045'] Dude you obviously don't watch "live" golf events and stay up on social media... In the last 3 months alone they have posted tournament results for at least 3 events whilst on tape delay, or network coverage delay. So if i'm couch-potatoed up with an ice cold beer grinding through the 498th Buick commercial; I don't want to glance through my FB feed hoping to catch my friends wives posting selfies in a 2 piece only to see a story of how Graham Delaet choked on his own vomit at the RBC. Get a clue man. [/quote] Glad to see we're being cordial about this discussion. I appreciate the kind response to my genuine question. Thanks for the education. I'll take Golf Digest's side on this one. It's not their fault the networks tape delay (or that you live in California). Frankly I wasn't even aware it was a common occurrence/problem. I'm someone who gets most of my tournament updates via social media so I like the updates. I just don't have time to sit and watch a full tournament. I might be out running errands, playing my own round, or at work for the early rounds and appreciate the posts. Sports scores are news, not entertainment, and the reporting of them shouldn't be embargoed to fit a TV schedule.
  11. I don't get the complaints about social media spoilers? How are they doing this? You guys trying the dvr and watch later? It's a live sporting event, you can't expect them to not report what 's happening.
  12. [quote name='Qqq123xx' timestamp='1406951892' post='9838301'] [quote name='MichiganMike' timestamp='1406333523' post='9786979'] Many of the great courses take what the setting gives them. What places do you think could be home to a great course? Ideas can be simply utlizing natural settings like Bandon Dunes has done in Oregon or Old Head did in Ireland. Alternatively you might think of something truly unique. For example, the city of Detroit has tons of abandoned space and vacant buildings and I've long thought there's a golf course to found among the ruins with the buildings providing natural boundaries.[attachment=2341685:detroit_04.jpg] [/quote]Probably the only 1942 yd. par 5 you could drive. [/quote] I think you and some others have been misunderstanding me. I'd grass the land but leave the building ruins. It'd be a course bounded by buildings instead of trees. I'm definitely not calling for a concrete course.
  13. [quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1406940683' post='9837157'] [quote name='MichiganMike' timestamp='1406940453' post='9837145'] I gave this a try today. After I putted out conventionally on the first hole I remembered this thread and threw the ball back down, about 15 feet from the hole. I stared down the hole and hit. Plop - the ball fell in the cup. I immediately started planning my update here. It was to start "Holy F-ck Sh-ts, this is the best thing ever!" Alas it did not turn out to be the Holy Grail, but I do think there's something to it. I'm going to continue my experiment with it. Here are my observations. - Focusing only on the hole (more specifically looking at the hole through the entire stroke) seems to do wonders for distance control. On average I think my distance control was better than normal. - For me there seemed to be sweet spot putting this way between 5 & 40 feet. On shorter putts where conventionally I could see both the ball and the hole in my peripheral, looking only at the hole caused issues directionally. I pushed many short ones right today. When I putt conventionally I'm a back and through putter and consciously try to keep the putter face square to the target the entire time. I suspect with this instinct putting, on the short ones, I'm opening the putter face more than normal and never getting it back square. - For long putts (40+ ft?) I struggled with trusting myself and left almost all of them way short. Perhaps I just need to putt this way a litte more and learn to trust myself. - In that intermediate range there were very good results. There were a few putts where I went "uh oh" as I hit it because it feet wierd, but on all of thise the ball nestled right up to the cup. - Despite good results, I felt my stroke was a little more jabby today. - While this method didn't seem to hole any more putts than normal, it did seem to leave me with a lot more tap ins. What might normally be a 3 foot knee knocker became a 1 footer or less. - It's amazing what the brain can do when you turn off conscious thought. I never read any break beyond "left to right" or "right to left." On occasion I'd have to think "a big break," But I never thought about how many cups to the side or intermediate spots. Still, the brain made the proper adjustments with me just looking at the hole. - It feels a little freaky to do this! - I don't yet have an opinion on uphill and downhill putts. Can't remember if I mentally adjusted for these or not. I'm going to continue the experiment on anything over 5 feet. I have a feeling I'll adopt it permanently for the intermediate distances and the jury's still out on the long ones. [/quote] You can train yourself to still literally see the hole without looking at it. It takes some practice because conscious thought will block the picture in your mind. I take a one last look at the hole before I look back to the ball and that picture is imprinted in my mind. Then I just putt to that picture. [/quote] In many ways that's how I normally putt. I've never been very technical putter - my only swing thought has ever been "hit the ball in the hole" and I always talk a long look at the hole before a quick look down and a stroke. While I'm generally a decent putter, I have enough bad ones in a round to think I can improve. My issues in the past have been distance control - perhaps I lose the picture on these. Keeping the eyes on the hole might be enough to improve.
  14. I gave this a try today. After I putted out conventionally on the first hole I remembered this thread and threw the ball back down, about 15 feet from the hole. I stared down the hole and hit. Plop - the ball fell in the cup. I immediately started planning my update here. It was to start "Holy F-ck Sh-ts, this is the best thing ever!" Alas it did not turn out to be the Holy Grail, but I do think there's something to it. I'm going to continue my experiment with it. Here are my observations. - Focusing only on the hole (more specifically looking at the hole through the entire stroke) seems to do wonders for distance control. On average I think my distance control was better than normal. - For me there seemed to be sweet spot putting this way between 5 & 40 feet. On shorter putts where conventionally I could see both the ball and the hole in my peripheral, looking only at the hole caused issues directionally. I pushed many short ones right today. When I putt conventionally I'm a back and through putter and consciously try to keep the putter face square to the target the entire time. I suspect with this instinct putting, on the short ones, I'm opening the putter face more than normal and never getting it back square. - For long putts (40+ ft?) I struggled with trusting myself and left almost all of them way short. Perhaps I just need to putt this way a litte more and learn to trust myself. - In that intermediate range there were very good results. There were a few putts where I went "uh oh" as I hit it because it feet wierd, but on all of thise the ball nestled right up to the cup. - Despite good results, I felt my stroke was a little more jabby today. - While this method didn't seem to hole any more putts than normal, it did seem to leave me with a lot more tap ins. What might normally be a 3 foot knee knocker became a 1 footer or less. - It's amazing what the brain can do when you turn off conscious thought. I never read any break beyond "left to right" or "right to left." On occasion I'd have to think "a big break," But I never thought about how many cups to the side or intermediate spots. Still, the brain made the proper adjustments with me just looking at the hole. - It feels a little freaky to do this! - I don't yet have an opinion on uphill and downhill putts. Can't remember if I mentally adjusted for these or not. I'm going to continue the experiment on anything over 5 feet. I have a feeling I'll adopt it permanently for the intermediate distances and the jury's still out on the long ones.
  15. [quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1406664426' post='9811389'] [quote name='MichiganMike' timestamp='1406655493' post='9810477'] [quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1406647302' post='9809539'] [quote name='LeoLeo99' timestamp='1406646865' post='9809491'] You were told the caddie fee is $50 and recommended tip is $35. Why would folks on the Internet know more about what is expected than the person that told you this information? [/quote] My question isn't about who knows more. My question is what the $50 caddie fee is for? For years I have played numerous private clubs where I pay for a caddie and there is no "caddie fee" + tip. And when I caddied, I would either get cash from the player or I would go to the caddie master and he would pay me. They never took a cut for providing a place for caddies to work. It seems like this is usually something that they have at high end public or resort courses, and not so much at good private clubs. A good caddie at a private club usually carries two bags, and if they are really good I see nothing wrong with paying them $75. And if its a new caddie who simply carries the bag and rakes traps, then I think $40-$50 is acceptable. [b]But now I have to pay extra to the club because they provide caddies? The courses see an opportunity to make money from providing caddies and its costs them absolutely nothing to do so. Its not like carts where they have to recover their costs.[/b] [/quote] Let's analyze this statement in business terms. You're looking at this strictly from the cost of the resources and not the value those resources provide. Price is a market driven function determined by value and should have little to do with cost. As a golfer, you are the market in this case and determine if you want to pay that other fee. It's irrelevant what the cost is to the course. If you don't think it's worth ~$85 for the personal service, course knowledge, conversation, etc then don't pay it. But recognize your "free" cart can't give you that extra value. It doesn't bother me that the course may make some margin on the caddie. It's a free society with 3 free-willed parties: the course, the golfer, & the caddie. If any or all of those parties don't like the arrangement or can find something better, they'll opt out and the market will reset. [/quote] I grew up caddying. A lot of kids in my area grew up caddying. Ask any older golfer who started playing golf at a young age and you will find that they probably grew up caddying. But caddie programs across the country a down from where they used to be. It used to be a great way for kids to make money and to learn the game at a young age. It was a great summer job for college kids and there were always a decent amount of adults who continued to caddy as a side job or whatever. Caddies always want to get paid more, but 99% of them were very pleased the cash they made. And golfers were more than happy to pay a reasonable fee for their services. But now we have an additional expense because the courses weren't getting a cut of the fee. Instead of having caddies because it's a nice service to have, they're going to offer caddies, but charge for it. You might think the market will re-set, but it's more likely that we'll see the job of caddie almost eliminated due to higher costs. Golfers have already stopped taking caddies as they have been replaced by carts, and pretty soon they'll balk at paying $100+ for a caddy. So what will the course do? Eliminate the caddy fee? My guess is they will eliminate the caddy before giving up the added revenue. It doesn't sound like you take a caddie on a regular basis, and it doesn't sound like you caddied as a kid, but if you did you might see why these things are bad for golf. When you take a caddie every weekend let me know if you think $100 is a reasonable rate for something that used to cost $25-$50. Participation in golf is down as a whole. We should be focused on getting more people involved in golf. Golf course should bring back training programs for caddies. Make the overall cost reasonable (plenty of teenagers would gladly carry two bags at $40-$50 per bag...$100 per day), and encourage them to take up the game. Or they can make sure they charge an extra "caddie fee" have less people take caddies, reduce the demand for caddies, have less kids exposed to the game of golf and watch participation continue to drop. [/quote] It's true I use a caddie very rarely and I caddied only very briefly as a kid, but I'm also very pro caddie. For me it's not the courses' issue. I don't think they are looking at it as a revenue play. I think it's golfers' lack of paying the extra money. It's just a function of carts being so pervasive. Take the following scenario. Assume a $50 greens fee which includes a cart. Let's say the course is generous and offers $10 off if you take a caddie and they don't even charge a caddie fee. ($10 off probably represents a loss for the course because I suspect the marginal cost of a cart per round is far less than $10.) You just need to tip the kid. So you're at $40 for greens fees and you're a cheap a** and only give the kid $20. That's the cheapest scenario to have a caddie and it sucks for everyone: the course loses compared to a cart, the golfer pays more than if he uses the cart, and the caddie gets shafted because he'd earn more flipping burgers. Under limited situations golfers will pay for a caddie, but the vast majority won't. Caddie programs aren't dying because course are siphoning the revenue. They're dying because golfers won't pony up.
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