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RmoorePE

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  1. I don't think you want a written policy (too many ways to game it), but you should arm the rangers/starters/pro with gift cards or coins that reward fast players. I.e. you establish that you are a course that encourages fast play, and have the starters reinforce it during their spiel. Have them say "If we catch you keeping up good POP you might get a reward." Then have the rangers or starters armed with gift cards or something where they can drive up to a group and be like "Hey I noticed you guys are doing a good job staying with the group ahead, here is $20 you can spend at the turn", or "Hey your group finished front nine in 1:45 here is $20 for the snack shack" etc. They don't have to give it to everybody, but do it enough times in a day and word will get out that your course rewards fast players and maybe build a culture of it among the members and guests. Maybe only do this on weekends, or just on crowded days. A further bonus is that if you gave my group a $20 gift card for beer, we would definitely spend it and tip the $20 to the person working the snack shack or beer cart.
  2. Most of my golf course experience is on the West coast. Fun means different things to different people. I like courses that allow you to imagine your routing from the tee (so Wine Valley as mentioned above) is a blast. I also agree it is more fun than Gamble Sands (I hit some really bad shots at GS that ended up really good -unfairly I thought). I am not a good shot shaper with my driver, but can cut or chase with most of my other clubs so I really enjoy running the ball down and onto slopey greens, much more than trying to dart soft greens. I played Tetherow with some friends a month ago. My two buds hated it and I was grinning the whole time. I like to shape drives left to right and they hit draws. I played from the fairway and they played from first cut and desert. The thing I really like about Tetherow was the way the greens were built. The greens looked super intimidating, even when you were on them, but what I found out was that if you got the ball on the correct area of the green, your next put was not that hard. I.e. you might have a 50' putt or chip over 2 humps and off a sideboard, but if you got it within 8' or so the 8' putt was low stress (despite its length). So I got up and down much more than I thought I was going to. Walking off I was talking about how it was one of the most fun courses I ever played and they thought I was crazy!
  3. I think the parent and child would need to prioritize their goals. If it was winning Jr tournaments age 14 and under, I would say having a good short game is probably the most valuable as they set the courses short. If it is winning major teen tournaments, it takes a total package player, but really superb accuracy around 165 yards and in is what sets those kids apart. If it is just you want your kid to have fun playing golf - I would say get them swinging as hard and fast as they can. Using their athleticism to their advantage early is something I wish they would have told me as a Jr golfer. All I ever heard was "Swing easy, swing smooth etc". Kids who can redline a swing and keep the ball in play, usually have a lot of fun, and gain a lot of attention from other players/parents/coaches etc.
  4. I agree with RobS. Before a tournament my daughter and I will look at some of the players and go back through their scores to see if she is in the right tournament. A quick overview shows that most of the good players her age shoot around 70-75 in tournaments, but all of them have blow up days (mid to high 80s). Only a few have scores in the 60s. These are regular regional tournament kids. My daughter pretty much always scores between 80 and 85 in tournaments and finds herself in 2nd and 3rd more than we expect her to. Bad days happen to all of us. In a couple tournaments we played with some kids with more national profiles and noticed that their game looked similar to the best regional kids, but when they had a blow up hole or got caught in a bad situation, they dealt with it much better. I.e. they made better golf decisions, and put it behind them quickly. Really fun to watch them play.
  5. It all comes down to parents either way. Those of you that make home schooling work are putting in effort and your kids will 100% be successful adults. Those of you with kids in public school who are paying attention, will be successful as well. If spending every day mastering golf is valuable to your kid then do it. My kids would hate it. My kids love public school. They attend a small rural school. They are involved in everything they can. They love playing sports in packed gyms in front of screaming class mates. They are leaders of clubs (FFA , Honor Society) and are constantly busy with sports or community activities. My youngest(8th grade) is the most athletic and she loves lifting weights with the gym rats after school before practices. Public schools have lots of trouble though. There are tough to manage kids in there. There are also bad teachers, and feckless administrations. I had a long conversation with my sophomore this morning, as she is having trouble with one of her team mates on the volleyball team. Normal HS team drama stuff. The talk was about how a leader gets people that they don't necessarily like to do things that help the team. I could see her realizing that she was going to have to step up to solve the problem, and it is going to be hard. The lessons learned in doing that, to me are very important. I hire young people out of college and so many would not even consider having a difficult conversation with someone, let alone leading a group of people.
  6. I would imagine that the $500 lesson guy has a pretty big on line presence and if you get a lesson from them there is a good chance you get on their Instagram page with the caption "Nice work today <insert name or @>. So there is a dopamine component for a lot of people. Also, for some people there is the fact that you can say "I'm getting lessons from so and so" which may get you some "oohs and aahs" from people who care. The value lies in what you get out of it, if the pro has a magic touch, $500 may be cheap.
  7. I'm a consulting engineer and own a couple small businesses. Pricing for consulting or any service (which is basically what private coaching is) is solely based on what people are willing to pay for it. As Murdock says above, if you really don't want a job you can price it high enough that if you do get it, it will get your full attention! Also, I have learned that if you price your work low, you work for people or companies that don't have that much money to spend. Sure you will always be busy, but the sweet spot is where you only work for rich people or companies and are just busy enough. God bless the golf instructors charging decent rates, so that they can help as many people as possible and build their brand, but I have no truck with instructors charging for the market they want to hit.
  8. I attended my first PGA Jr league match the other day, and noticed how short they set up the course. I asked and one of the coaches told me it is more fun to have closer tees so that the competition and drama is centered around the greens. He told me that he and the other coaches pay really close attention to how far kids hit it during the practice days and err on the side of too easy of driving when they set up the course, so that the competition is based on approaches, wedges, and putting. It improves pace of play, and makes the scoring much tighter. His point was kids have way more fun scoring around par, and it keeps their interest high and stress level low (i.e. = Fun). He stated that the course setup gets harder as they move along, but the point is always low scoring. It handcuffs the longer hitters a bit, which is okay. His opinion is that there are plenty of events that favor the longer hitters, and I agree. In state competition my daughter played at around 6000 yards, but her short game was not good enough to make top 5. I think it is fine to sprinkle in days where they are playing from a long ways out, but building confidence in scoring is really important. I have probably been asking too much of my daughter in practice rounds, as stated above she should probably spend more time on the correct tees (5800 or less) -she is 13. Don't get me wrong - distance matters, and we should always try to help them get longer. That just doesn't necessarily have to be on the course.
  9. My daughter is trying Jr. League for the first time this fall. She is loving it. The practices were moderately organized, just hitting balls, chipping and putting on the green. The first match was really fun. The kids they played against were evenly matched with tournament experience so it was pretty competitive, neither team had any bogeys in her pairing. She is one of the better players, which makes it fun for her as well. With anything it comes down to the people organizing it and how well they communicate and how much time they can dedicate to getting it right. Our league uses an app, to ensure that they have the pairings, hole assignments, and other information readily available, plus an e-mail backup.
  10. Congrats to you on raising a good kid. We dropped my oldest off at college a couple weeks back. She had interest from smaller schools for volleyball, but had no interest in them. She told me last week she is glad she decided just to be a student. I thought maybe it was because her degree in Accounting/Business was taking a lot of time, but it is mostly the freedom and parties (lol).
  11. I would imagine that pulling a scholarship from a player reflects on the coach and their staff as much as the player if they pull a scholarship simply due to how they play. I mean the coach and staff went through the effort to vet the player and then pull the scholarship due to performance? If grades or non-school/behavior issues become a problem then it is different. On the flipside I know that there are lots of kids who wash out of every sport in the first year. I would bet golf has less than the other sports, by and large as there is a lot less physical stress. Especially at lower level schools, where the competition is easier. I could rattle of 10 such examples of kids in other sports I have known over the years in about 30 seconds. Most of the time it is due to being a big fish in a small pond (high school) and then ending up as a small fish in a big pond and not being able to deal with that. There is a complete lifestyle shift that goes with it. All of the training, off season work, etc turns those kids off. Especially when they see their peers partying, sleeping in, etc. Most of them say they don't like the coach or the coach didn't like them, which is sometimes true, but mostly it is that they lost interest. If a good education is the goal, that is on the parents and child to sort it. Playing a big time college sport and getting a good college education are probably at odds for most kids (not all). I played Juco sports and I could not keep my grades up between practices, long game travel, off season workouts etc. Coaches say things like " kids are student- athletes, that means student first." Then they give you the off season schedule- 6 AM individual workout, team lunch tutoring, 4 PM team workout, 7 pm shoot around. Only the best of the best can do it, congrats to the parents who's kids can make this work. As a mediocre student, I could not. If I were looking at my kid for a golf scholarship, I would be telling her to take the golf to the max level she can, enjoy it to the fullest and pick a degree that is both easy, and provides some flexibility moving ahead, so that she can commit to the golf part. College years can be some of the most fun of our lives, and if golfing is your kids thing let them send it fully. So what if she needs 2 or 3 more years after her bachelors degree to get into her desired field? The cumulative experience will be plenty valuable after she graduates.
  12. Interesting thread. I have 3 friends who were Div II golfers. Two of them are brothers. They have all followed the same path, born to the game (parents who were players/coaches), played jr events (up to regional size with some success), in High School they all were high placers at state (one winner). In college they played all 4 years, immediately after college they all burned out. One is an Asst Pro, but doesn't care at all about playing. He told me he gets the itch to compete, and it lasts about 2 practice rounds. They had what I would call great golf careers. The difference in them is that the two brothers are far more athletic. They are both over 6', lanky and if you play them in a city league basketball game the athleticism jumps out instantly. I played golf with the younger brother and the non-brother a few weeks ago in Bend. Neither of them had played more than 4 times in the past year, the athletic brother shot an easy 68 (-4) and the other ex Div II player shot an 86. The brother hit a 2i GAP-R off every tee, an absolute screaming 300 yard bullet. The non brother told me that he had to grind for everything he got in golf and that as soon as he stopped practicing every day, he turned into a regular 10 handicap guy. Told me he lost basically 40 yards off his driver within about 3 months. He played no other sports (because he was not athletic) and so he made golf his thing. The other two played all the other sports and rarely practiced, they just showed up for tournaments. I guess my point is in regarding late bloomer, early bloomer etc, the best players have a latent athletic ability that most people don't have. It may not appear until they are well into high school. The good news is golf allows grinders to have really nice careers, but they can't ever stop grinding. Love of the game is key for the grinders. I also believe that being a grinder is a talent or a skill all on its own. The combination of being gifted both (athleticism, and grinder) is a winning combo. The strength and flexibility to get the club head moving really fast with a square face seems like holy grail for a good golf career. At young ages keep the child active athletically and make golf really fun. Simple. My other advice is to take a look at your child's other parent, their athletic pedigree, the size of them and their family, ability to turn their hips in space, fast twitch ability, injury issues etc, and run the same diagnostics on yourself. With my kids, my genes are far weaker athletically, my wife's family are tall Scandinavians with Div 1 track pedigree. I made it to community college soccer, but I'm slow, cant jump over a paint stripe, and my hips turn about 20 degrees. This is a pretty good way to predict how kids will do once the competition gets really good and their body matures. It is not fool proof, but statistically accurate. Golf is about how your body and brain react under stress, and being athletically gifted makes it so much easier (at least it looks like it, I wouldn't actually know). I play on a city league basketball team and one of my team mates is a tall guy (6-7), who is not very good. He is just awkward on the court. He asked one of our better players (Div II, but saw basically no college minutes) what do do in the off season to get better and he said "Go back, back a long time. To a time before you were born and get a new set of parents with some athletic ability, and then when you are 5 years old pick up a basketball and learn to play."
  13. I actually won an award at a charity scramble for (one of) my worst shots of all time. I won a case of "Flying Lady" golf balls. We were group 10B teeing off on #10 and #18 green was roughly 80 yards right and 10 yards ahead of the tee box, obscured by trees etc. You can see #18 if you squat down and look through the maintenance parking lot and trees. I teed up driver and hit way under the sky mark was 1/2" behind the club face and nearly off the toe. None of us saw where it went, but assumed in the tree area right of the green. Thick brush in there and so I was not going to look. We didn't know at the time, but the ball flew over the trees landed on #18 green, right in the middle of a group putting. The ball had sidespin so it looked like it was flown in with a wedge, and spun out of it's pitch mark. The people on the green assumed it was one of the guys in the group behind them waiting in the fairway, and ran out to scream at them for hitting into them. As we moved up to our chosen ball I could see the melee out in 18 fairway, but just assumed it had nothing to do with me. As the day went on, someone in my group and the other groups pieced together what happened without my knowledge, and I was surprised when they added the "worst drive" category as the first prize announcement and I won it.
  14. This has been a good thread so far. I mean with golf it really doesn't make sense to worry over the age of a JV player. Every week is a competition and golf is a sport where you can have a bad streak, or a hot streak it is coaches job to ride that out. If a senior is scoring the same as the rest of the JV kids, he is not dead weight. In other sports most seniors are not going to accept being put on JV and will quit. Those that are willing to play on JV just want to play and it is the coaches job to make sure that they don't hinder a younger players development. I don't think that states should have rules about it, as some school districts will get turn outs that are too small to field full teams, and so flexibility is needed. I have seen coaches round up a couple of seniors who never played basketball outside of PE just to fill out a JV squad and have a season. Football in most states does not allow Srs on JV, for injury purposes, but football teams have lots of room so it is no big deal. Last year in my home town the boys basketball team cut 4 seniors, kids who had been in the program since middle school, 2 of them had varsity minutes as juniors. The JV and C teams were full, and they could not find a place for them, as a big crop of Jrs had more talent. Made sense. Caused a big stir for the coach though. Last night I got to watch some of our local golf boys play in their match. I ran into the coach as he was driving from group to group. He told me that his #1 through #4 (all seniors) from the first two matches were moved to JV and what they call "practice squad" (kids hoping to play onto JV or V) as they were pencil whippers. One of them quit as a result, but golf is great that way there is no where to hide. They also won their first match of the year because of coach realizing he had some bad apples. Gsea sounds like you have an inexperienced coach. Maybe you should volunteer your time instead of bitching about it on the internet?
  15. I would say it is far more prevalent in the last 10 years than I can ever remember. Most teams (not just golf) used to be if you could not make Varsity as a Sr then you were cut. Anymore it seems like teams that are stacked with underclassmen will allow seniors on JV if they want to play. The underclassmen have to beat them out, for playing time. My opinion is that if a Sr wants to play on JV they should be allowed to, it is probably their last chance to play competitive sports and exposure to being on a team, being coached and losing/failing. Important lessons. Plus, the benefit of getting to practice golf every day for 3 months is something that will have value to them (more than any other sport) for the rest of their lives. See TheDominator273 above for proof.
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