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RmoorePE

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  1. Interesting thread. I have 3 friends who were Div II golfers. Two of them are brothers. They have all followed the same path, born to the game (parents who were players/coaches), played jr events (up to regional size with some success), in High School they all were high placers at state (one winner). In college they played all 4 years, immediately after college they all burned out. One is an Asst Pro, but doesn't care at all about playing. He told me he gets the itch to compete, and it lasts about 2 practice rounds. They had what I would call great golf careers. The difference in them is that the two brothers are far more athletic. They are both over 6', lanky and if you play them in a city league basketball game the athleticism jumps out instantly. I played golf with the younger brother and the non-brother a few weeks ago in Bend. Neither of them had played more than 4 times in the past year, the athletic brother shot an easy 68 (-4) and the other ex Div II player shot an 86. The brother hit a 2i GAP-R off every tee, an absolute screaming 300 yard bullet. The non brother told me that he had to grind for everything he got in golf and that as soon as he stopped practicing every day, he turned into a regular 10 handicap guy. Told me he lost basically 40 yards off his driver within about 3 months. He played no other sports (because he was not athletic) and so he made golf his thing. The other two played all the other sports and rarely practiced, they just showed up for tournaments. I guess my point is in regarding late bloomer, early bloomer etc, the best players have a latent athletic ability that most people don't have. It may not appear until they are well into high school. The good news is golf allows grinders to have really nice careers, but they can't ever stop grinding. Love of the game is key for the grinders. I also believe that being a grinder is a talent or a skill all on its own. The combination of being gifted both (athleticism, and grinder) is a winning combo. The strength and flexibility to get the club head moving really fast with a square face seems like holy grail for a good golf career. At young ages keep the child active athletically and make golf really fun. Simple. My other advice is to take a look at your child's other parent, their athletic pedigree, the size of them and their family, ability to turn their hips in space, fast twitch ability, injury issues etc, and run the same diagnostics on yourself. With my kids, my genes are far weaker athletically, my wife's family are tall Scandinavians with Div 1 track pedigree. I made it to community college soccer, but I'm slow, cant jump over a paint stripe, and my hips turn about 20 degrees. This is a pretty good way to predict how kids will do once the competition gets really good and their body matures. It is not fool proof, but statistically accurate. Golf is about how your body and brain react under stress, and being athletically gifted makes it so much easier (at least it looks like it, I wouldn't actually know). I play on a city league basketball team and one of my team mates is a tall guy (6-7), who is not very good. He is just awkward on the court. He asked one of our better players (Div II, but saw basically no college minutes) what do do in the off season to get better and he said "Go back, back a long time. To a time before you were born and get a new set of parents with some athletic ability, and then when you are 5 years old pick up a basketball and learn to play."
  2. I actually won an award at a charity scramble for (one of) my worst shots of all time. I won a case of "Flying Lady" golf balls. We were group 10B teeing off on #10 and #18 green was roughly 80 yards right and 10 yards ahead of the tee box, obscured by trees etc. You can see #18 if you squat down and look through the maintenance parking lot and trees. I teed up driver and hit way under the sky mark was 1/2" behind the club face and nearly off the toe. None of us saw where it went, but assumed in the tree area right of the green. Thick brush in there and so I was not going to look. We didn't know at the time, but the ball flew over the trees landed on #18 green, right in the middle of a group putting. The ball had sidespin so it looked like it was flown in with a wedge, and spun out of it's pitch mark. The people on the green assumed it was one of the guys in the group behind them waiting in the fairway, and ran out to scream at them for hitting into them. As we moved up to our chosen ball I could see the melee out in 18 fairway, but just assumed it had nothing to do with me. As the day went on, someone in my group and the other groups pieced together what happened without my knowledge, and I was surprised when they added the "worst drive" category as the first prize announcement and I won it.
  3. This has been a good thread so far. I mean with golf it really doesn't make sense to worry over the age of a JV player. Every week is a competition and golf is a sport where you can have a bad streak, or a hot streak it is coaches job to ride that out. If a senior is scoring the same as the rest of the JV kids, he is not dead weight. In other sports most seniors are not going to accept being put on JV and will quit. Those that are willing to play on JV just want to play and it is the coaches job to make sure that they don't hinder a younger players development. I don't think that states should have rules about it, as some school districts will get turn outs that are too small to field full teams, and so flexibility is needed. I have seen coaches round up a couple of seniors who never played basketball outside of PE just to fill out a JV squad and have a season. Football in most states does not allow Srs on JV, for injury purposes, but football teams have lots of room so it is no big deal. Last year in my home town the boys basketball team cut 4 seniors, kids who had been in the program since middle school, 2 of them had varsity minutes as juniors. The JV and C teams were full, and they could not find a place for them, as a big crop of Jrs had more talent. Made sense. Caused a big stir for the coach though. Last night I got to watch some of our local golf boys play in their match. I ran into the coach as he was driving from group to group. He told me that his #1 through #4 (all seniors) from the first two matches were moved to JV and what they call "practice squad" (kids hoping to play onto JV or V) as they were pencil whippers. One of them quit as a result, but golf is great that way there is no where to hide. They also won their first match of the year because of coach realizing he had some bad apples. Gsea sounds like you have an inexperienced coach. Maybe you should volunteer your time instead of bitching about it on the internet?
  4. I would say it is far more prevalent in the last 10 years than I can ever remember. Most teams (not just golf) used to be if you could not make Varsity as a Sr then you were cut. Anymore it seems like teams that are stacked with underclassmen will allow seniors on JV if they want to play. The underclassmen have to beat them out, for playing time. My opinion is that if a Sr wants to play on JV they should be allowed to, it is probably their last chance to play competitive sports and exposure to being on a team, being coached and losing/failing. Important lessons. Plus, the benefit of getting to practice golf every day for 3 months is something that will have value to them (more than any other sport) for the rest of their lives. See TheDominator273 above for proof.
  5. I've been working hard on a reliable low cut with my driver. I'm getting closer and closer to being consistent with it. I tee the ball low and just focus on staying behind the club head and the ball stays low and cuts along the left fairway edge. It goes somewhere like 240 to 260 with not much roll out. It tends to get on the ground early which helps stop before trouble. It seems like most golf holes (even some left dog legs) will allow for that shot from the correct tees. With lots of room (par 5s and resort courses), I tee it higher and give it a good lashing with the same swing path. My 3 wood has a slightly softer shaft, which I use to hit from right to left when needed. For years I tried to shape my driver both directions, but I don't have the skill or time to practice it. I made a personal rule that my driver is not allowed to do anything but hit cuts, on the range or on the course and it has helped a lot. I still have bad days, last weekend I played on Sunday morning and never hit a single fairway (I hit one green on a 250y par 4), however the strategy and misses were mitigated by the low ball and mostly settled in the right cut rough. I used to be a believer in getting the ball to 115y to 130y for a wedge, but scoring is better overall getting closer. It feels better to hit a 130 yard shot to 20 feet than a 50 yard shot to 15 feet, but scores over time will be better from 15 feet.
  6. I think a lot of kids play in different geographic than their home areas regions be it AJGA, DCP or USK to get wins. There are regions or districts near us that my daughter would win a lot of tournaments, but I would rather not waste a bunch of time on the road for a medal. I mean winning with an 81 against a bad field or getting 5th with an 81 is still the same score. The player's ability to score is what matters eventually. I don't watch or understand JGS rankings so I don't know about any of that, but it seems like chasing something like a national ranking is probably a waste of time. Hardly any athlete "gets discovered" anymore, with social media, ease of videography, ease of access to coaches, and shrinking athletic department budgets (in some cases). A kid who really wants to play and has the game is going to get on a team, the national ranking is a nice number on the CV, but beyond that game is game. Shooting in the 60s a lot (in whatever tournaments they play in) probably overshadows a national ranking? My daughter won an event that had kids that ranged from decent like her to pretty much rookies. She hated it. Said it was embarrassing to play with some of those kids. She has gotten a sound beating as well (a few times), and while that stung and made her cry, she ultimately agreed it was much more fun and inspiring. If parents want to pad their kids stats to make themselves feel better, whatever.
  7. LOL. I think this thread is about coaching advice - the advice is to check in with the kids on their scoring and try to root out the cheaters. However, if I had time I surely would assist the golf team and coach would take my help no doubt. But it is volleyball season and so every other afternoon/evening is booked, I only have just enough time to talk s*** on the internet.
  8. Our local HS boys team just started this season, my daughters are friends with a few of the players and I was speaking with them last night. One of the kids couldn't make the JV team for the first two events, even though I know he is better than over half of the kids there. The reason is that the older kids pencil whipped their scores to ensure they got to travel. It is a big golf team, almost 25 kids and they take 12 (6 V, and 6 JV). The coach cannot watch them to be able to question their scores, but I know he is seeing the results after 2 matches and will try to reign in the cheaters. What he really needs is an assistant. The biggest issue is that the cheaters are the older kids who know the system, and so the younger kids have a hard time sticking their nose in. As a coach I recommend staying vigilant and talking to the players individually about their scoring as well as a team. My high school coach was my basketball coach too (pretty common at most schools). He never taught us anything about our golf swings, but he did give me one lesson on lag putting that I will never forget. Me and another team mate were playing a round with him after practice, I had just made a horrible 3 putt bogey and he said to me "If the hole was as big as a hula hoop could you make it?" I said "yeah, most of the time." Coach just walked off the green and never said anything else, but I got the point. I think he liked to coach golf because we had quite a few basketball players, and we could never make excuses to miss open gym. I remember the golf team van taking us directly from a golf match to the gym to change and shoot baskets.
  9. Getting angry is part of golf. Handling it poorly is also part of golf. It is a sport where sometimes we make ourselves look stupid (in many ways), and the pros are no different from all of us. I watched a 73 year old, 23 handicap, take off his hat and slam himself in the head 3 times, then slap his leg, then throw his putter to his cart just yesterday. Some people are just born to lose their mind on the golf course. This guy is miserable to play with and many people have walked off the course when paired with him. He completely sucks at golf and yet wakes up every day thinking he is okay at it, and is surprised and pissed when he still sucks. I have another friend who breaks at least 1 club per year. Summer past, he broke the wind screen out of a power cart on a botched club throw. Had to pay $250 to the club house. He is not an A-hole though and always feels like a heel within like 2 minutes of any outburst, apologizes to all, buys the drinks, etc. Love playing with him, he is just born to lose his mind on the golf course. I always get a kick out of his antics, but they may be shocking to others. I start salivating for the free beer. The outburst is the outburst, it is how you respond after that matters to me.
  10. Congrats to all. I dunked a high spinner from 50 yards on Saturday. Straight down the flag into the cup, unfortunately it hopped out. The hole had a blueish tint from the fertilizer and, we could see where my ball had spun in there, and my ball had the stuff all over it. Cost me a net and gross skin which would have been $80.
  11. My daughter has never done it, but we are signed up for this fall. Some of the kids the next town over invited her, and we have arranged with the parents for a ride share. Best part is that she gets to play at Chambers Bay for 6 weeks in a row.
  12. We just had our club championship this last weekend. We had two players score 69s, one was a 9 handicap and the other a 10. They are both blatant baggers. Their GHIN cards show scores between 78 and 88, then whenever you see a "C" (for competition) next to their score, somehow the scores are in the 70-74 ish range. Both of these guys have done this in CCs in the past, and pretty much every other tournament they play in. I happened to be in our club president's group both days, and I argued that neither should be able to claim any net winnings (our events pay net and gross skins both days, as well as placing at the end), they were both going to be high in gross winnings anyway. He was like "Do you know who the head of the handicap committee is?" and it is the 9 handicap. "I would be glad to nominate you, guarantee you will win" and I realized I would much rather just b**** about sandbagging than do anything about it. For the record, I shot one under my course handicap (11) each day, to take 3rd in the 1st flight (net) via tie breaker.
  13. Sorry if I wasn't clear, the breach was using the provisional after finding the original and calling it unplayable.
  14. The provisional is gone as an option once the original ball is located in play. My post that stirred this up was that in many handicap events you may well get away with calling the provisional your response to the unplayable. But it is a breach of the rule. A monkey wrench would be declaring the ball unplayable from the tee just to save time (meaning you might find it, but know from experience or what you can see, that you will be taking an unplayable). Again, breach of the rules, but in a more friendly format a sure time-saver.
  15. So, if a search is not initiated by the golfer then their declaration of a lost ball can stand, even if the ball is found? I qualified my statement with "in club level golf", where pace of play may outweigh going back and hitting a 3rd ball. Almost every club level or low level event at the beginning announcements they want you to play the provisional from the tee and sort it out after the round. Not saying it is right, but definitely happens - and I can at least see the why of it. The golfer would at least need to look at the ball and state it was unplayable and that he would use his provisional 3rd shot. But if antip is right, as long as the golfer doesn't see the ball they can play the provisional? Color me confused.
  16. No doubt there are some folk's who's egos will not allow them to be wrong (the other 10%). There are even more who go along to get along (like the the pro who backed him up - he had to know the rule, but was probably more concerned about getting yelled at). You did all you could from your perspective. All he really needed to do was call the "lost" ball "unplayable lie" and you all could get on with your life. In club level golf it is definitely preferable to make the provisional then find out if the first ball is unplayable or lost. If he had found it and then decided to take the unplayable by going back to the tee, it would have slowed down the round. The guy had no right to be steamed, maybe a chance to try to play the ball to get a miracle par? You were actually helping him IMO. I had a friend get a hole in 3 on a provisional shot, the rest of us bolted out of the carts when we got to the green to try and find the original in the woods, and he practically wrestled us back onto the green so we couldn't ,haha.
  17. My club has had an influx of younger players the past few years and the club championship is really their first exposure to tournament golf. They play in the other team events, but typically with their pre-made teams and so they can stay ignorant of the rules. In the CC they often get some hard lessons from the older guys regarding the ROG. I have found that 90% of people who don't know the rules, generally are appreciative if you tell them before they do something against the rules and sometimes even after, when you tell them the penalty they incurred. I know if I get called out on a rule (doesn't happen much anymore) I typically am appreciative, especially if I am proven wrong. If a player with less rules knowledge is walking up to the ball I try to help out by asking "what are you going to do, what are your thoughts on this, etc". Generally that sorts it quickly. If you see them from a distance and it looks like they are doing something against the rules, but I can't see them due to lay of the land etc I just ask "what happened over there?". If they say what they did and I tell them they have a penalty for that, they generally agree and move on. If they disagree, I just say "that's cool we will note it on the card and talk to the RO after, no big deal, lets have a good time". If they cheat, or lie and I can't see it (even if I suspect something) I don't worry about it. I'm not the cops.
  18. Get her a group of 3 or 4 friends who are as obsessed with golf as she is, and live nearby. Move to a place with better winter weather (probably will happen in a couple years).
  19. -Left my 50 degree wedge somewhere - this is about the 5th time in the last 2 years but this time someone didn't turn it in. I always forget it when I take the 50 and PW to the tee box on short par 3s. Looking for a new one, now. -Played last Friday in Nike slides (I had my golf shoes, I just forgot to put them on before we teed off). When we made the turn I could have put them on, but it didn't seem to matter. The course I played on I usually shoot between 8 and 12 over. Shot 10 over. I got second in a regional Stableford last winter when I forgot my shoes and wallet. Played that wet course in Adidas Sambas. So obviously connection to the earth means nothing to my game. -Told my wife I would come straight home after golf too many times to count. -Gave strokes to a guy who didn't carry a handicap and claimed to be a "bogey golfer". I guess he meant he got a bogey once every 4 holes.
  20. Three weeks ago daughter played in the state championship tournament. It was WJGA event. 13 y .o. daughter had a couple of terrible blow up holes that knocked her out of the top 10 which was her goal (she got 11th). She came off the course both days red faced, bummed out, and looked like she never wanted to see another golf hole in her life. It was a lot more pressure than she was used to (this was her first summer competing). After the tournament we never really even talked about golf for quite a while. I congratulated her, told her about a couple of shots I liked and asked about some of the kids she met, that was it. She had a 3 on 3 basketball tournament the following weekend and so we didn't have to talk golf. She didn't consider golf for about a week. I got to play with my friends and leave her at home, it was great. The next week she said out of the blue "I wish I would have grinded harder leading up to the State Tournament". All I had to say was "If you make it next year, we can do that, or whatever you want." If indeed she does decide to grind and push for it next year, then I think I did what I was supposed to. I knew she wasn't practicing enough before the tournament, but I think she was just a little burned out, and her friends distracted her, etc. I could have gave her the "Other kids are practicing every day" speech, and drug her to the course, but what would be the point? Make us both miserable? This past week has been completely different. The high school boys golf team is out on the course playing a lot of golf to get ready for their season. So she has been able to play with friends every day. On Tuesday she played with some kids on the local JuCo team in the morning, a second 18 with kids from the HS team after lunch, and an evening 9 with her oldest sister. I think she said she has played 162 holes between Sun and Thurs. I picked her up yesterday and was in the clubhouse talking with the pro. He was commenting on how cool it was to have so many kids out on the course, and we were watching a group of them out by the putting green goofing off, having little competitions and just having fun. My daughter was in the mix. She got in the car yammering about who she played with, who she beat, a couple birdies she had, next weeks plans for golf, some drama among the JuCo team due to a new freshman and other stuff. I never felt like a more successful sports parent. I have been told by lots of people she has the mechanics and strength for a good golf career, maybe they are just being nice, maybe it is true. She may fall out of golf, but she will always have warm memories of 8th grade summer days with her friends on the golf course. If anything is going to make your kid successful in a sport, #1 is loving the game. I always want her to fall back on how much fun being good at golf is. That is the foundation we are going to work from, we will see where it leads.
  21. Just post your scores as you make them per the rules. Nothing wrong with winning a couple matches because you are trying to get better, and actively pursuing your game. Why not get a pay off for your work? Anyone who is a handicap golfer knows when they are playing better than their cap and it doesn't last that long, so enjoy. With the new system it updates pretty fast, not like the old one where you might get a week of good scoring before the update. Every now and then I have a hot streak with my driver, and know I am going to shoot better than my handicap for a couple of rounds and I look forward to being in the mix, because I know there will be a correction, either in my cap or more likely my game falls apart, again.
  22. I agree with most here. I go to a lot of junior events to watch my daughter, and the best players are basically separated by putting. They all hit fairways and they all hit greens (or really close) and the separation becomes around the greens. For us mid teen cappers, it is all about hitting fairways. If I am having a day where I can't find the fairway, there is no way to save the round. A couple 3 putts is frustrating, but a couple of OBs are far worse. On courses where there are wide fairways, or links set ups with minimal mature trees around the teeing ground, I am confident and shoot good scores. Give me an old school country club course and I am likely going to be really frustrated.
  23. Don't enter tournaments that don't offer both net and gross payout/prizes (or are correctly flighted, or both). The best player(s) that day should be rewarded, and should be plainly stated on the rules. Even if there are no sandbaggers, higher handicap players tend to be more volatile scorers. In something like the Chapman described the high capper may be a terrible driver of the ball which drives his scoring and in the format they just use the other players drives. Maybe he flubs chips, or 3 putts a lot etc, but with the alternate shot it gets covered up.
  24. Here in WA state my daughter's age group (13-14) for US Kids attracts some of the really good kids from the area. These kids are winning the WJGA events, and placing high in state amateur events. There are really only a couple of kids who shoot in the 100s in any event. The lady who runs our region US Kids does a really nice job coordinating with local courses. They play a lot of really good courses, including Chambers Bay every season for $75. As a parent it is fun to be Daddy Caddy, but again most (like 3/4) of the kids play other tours and so the parents are pretty much spectators who carry the bag. I like it because I get to be in contact with my kid, and give her immediate positive feedback. I ask what the plan is, but I rarely offer much advice other than "right and short is best here, etc". It won't last forever and I can easily see her wanting one of her big sisters or friends to be on the bag instead of me soon. We don't do all the USK (maybe 4 per year), but every time they have one at a course she likes and knows we do try to make it. You are right in the regard that they do not have many rules officials, so it is up to parents and kids to help through that stuff. Invariably there could be arguments, but we have found it to be pretty rare. The only time I ever had an argument was when a parent told my child that she could have a free drop when she could not. They were trying to help, but just didn't know the rule. I don't think it has had any negative effect on my kids golf at all. It has been really fun.
  25. Depends a lot on the type of game being played. I have played with players and have used gamesmanship of this type plenty of times. Sometimes it works. In a team Stableford, you may have a situation where giving putts does not have any outcome to the score, because the other teammate is going to get a lower net score, or is already in. I decline gimmes if the putt is questionable, both for scoring and confidence purposes. I don't want to artificially lower my handicap, but plenty of guys do. Recent memory, my partner and I gave putts to one of our opponents all day as his partner was getting around really well. His score hardly mattered. Then on #15, his partner was in bad position and the guy had a 15" simple putt to tie our score for the hole. I said "Sorry, you haven't had to prove it all day, gotta make this one." He obviously had assumed it was a gimme (was strolling up to pick it up). He made the putt, but was so pissed off that his game fell apart 16-18, we could hear him complaining to his partner in the cart for 2 holes. He still talks about it a month later. We staged a late charge and tied the match on 18. So, I believe that the gamesmanship worked in that case (saved us from buying dinner and drinks), and even if not it certainly generated some entertaining conversations and golf is for entertainment so . . .
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