Manual de la Torre Method

[i*windows]

[quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1400607189' post='9332661']
[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1400606883' post='9332623']
I try to match the downswing but this is more hands focus'd, pulling the club, if I could make it as smooth as the backswing then I would be happy.
[/quote]
Just curious here - do you mean your downswing is more hands-focused, or Manuel's? Just asking because the latter wouldn't be true; that would be a slight misinterpretation.
[/quote]
Mine is more hand focused, it never used to be but it is now, would like the arms just to almost fall in front of the body and pull it through

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1400612630' post='9333341'][quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1400607189' post='9332661']
[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1400606883' post='9332623']
I try to match the downswing but this is more hands focus'd, pulling the club, if I could make it as smooth as the backswing then I would be happy.
[/quote]
Just curious here - do you mean your downswing is more hands-focused, or Manuel's? Just asking because the latter wouldn't be true; that would be a slight misinterpretation.
[/quote]
Mine is more hand focused, it never used to be but it is now, would like the arms just to almost fall in front of the body and pull it through[/quote]
Completely agree with you. I feel that it is a good thing to try to achieve, and perhaps a requisite for creating greater swing speed. When I do my pattern well - of course not all the time - my arms don't feel like they pull at all on the downswing.

(To be noted, I also don't extend my forearm consciously down the line as is often associated with a Ballard pattern. And hopefully my mention of him in relation to me isn't seen as thread-jacking!)

[The Pearl]

I am sure Steve will agree that he has had a huge advantage with Manny's approach by learning it from the get go. The rest of us probably learned the standard body-focused swing and tried to get better by implementing "body focused" fixes. As I have said previously, the leap to the other side of the aisle to club-focused is a HUGE mental and physical change. I had most of the same problems as mentioned in this thread. Some of the problems surfaced early on and some I still struggle with, albeit on a sporadic, infrequent basis.

Here are some thoughts on my experiences and interpretations. Perhaps Steve will jump in and add on or correct me if I am leading you astray.

1: Swinging tension free and swinging easy are NOT the same thing.
2. Make sure your body is responding to the swinging of the club.
3. The body response is still an athletic response.

As the others have mentioned, there is no way you should be shorter with any of your clubs using Manny's approach. Early on, when I made solid contact and the ball was flying shorter than normal it was because my intent was misplaced in that I was swinging easy, not tension free and the body had nothing to respond too. As somebody mentioned above, I often was simply picking up the arms and returning them to the ball.



4. If the ball is flying higher than normal, you are chunking it, or getting other various viscous results you more than likely fall victim to the swing demon that I have which is trying to hit at the ball with anger using your upper body. My shenanigans range from swinging the club with the shoulders, throwing the club at the ball with the hands and arms, or sliding the upper body toward the target in order to hit it as hard as I can. This is a very bad habit to break and it will take lots of work. Not so much pounding zillions of balls, but more so mentally in changing your intent away from hitting the ball to swinging the club.

Manny's book has a great trouble shooting section on fixes. Make sure to spend some time there.

For me, if I execute Manny's approach correctly, I have an acute awareness of where the club is during the swing, the swing has a sense of being athletic but there is no sense of body positions, and the motion seems to create it's own natural tempo and finds its own maximum club head speed.

[tm3]

>[color=#282828]I highly recommend the drill posted in the "Easiest Swing in Golf" video I linked to above - really helped me practice the smooth free-flowing arm motion. <[/color]

[color=#282828]are you talking about his his holding the club horizontal and pivoting back and forth? that is a drill from the "orange whip" site, also.[/color]

[color=#282828]Pearl and steve[/color]

[color=#282828]getting a little ahead here but how do you all see making the transition from smooth tension free EASY swing and a smooth tension free POWERFUL swing? [/color][color=#282828]i have [/color]
[color=#282828]experimented with "swing the clubhead" type exercises and am pretty reproducible as long as the swing is easy and there is no distance to the shot. when i have tried to add power i think that the tendency has been to use the club like a lever and the results are not pretty.[/color]

[color=#282828] [/color]

[The Pearl]

[quote name='tm3' timestamp='1400622587' post='9334489']
>[color=#282828]I highly recommend the drill posted in the "Easiest Swing in Golf" video I linked to above - really helped me practice the smooth free-flowing arm motion. <[/color]

[color=#282828]are you talking about his his holding the club horizontal and pivoting back and forth? that is a drill from the "orange whip" site, also.[/color]

[color=#282828]Pearl and steve[/color]

[color=#282828]getting a little ahead here but how do you all see making the transition from smooth tension free EASY swing and a smooth tension free POWERFUL swing? [/color][color=#282828]i have [/color]
[color=#282828]experimented with "swing the clubhead" type exercises and am pretty reproducible as long as the swing is easy and there is no distance to the shot. when i have tried to add power i think that the tendency has been to use the club like a lever and the results are not pretty.[/color]


[/quote]

I know where you are in terms of making the swing change, but I am not really sure how to answer your question. I am sure Manny would say if you want more speed/power than you have swing your arms faster. Remember the swing is an arc around a fixed center. When you add leverage, this arc is getting disrupted somehow. For me, there are usually three culprits..starting the forward swing with my shoulders, losing my center and moving my entire body forward and throwing the hands to catch up, or losing the width of the arc and throwing the hands away at the start of the downswing in order to regain the width and create speed. The results were usually pulls to varying degrees. What I realized, for me, when I add leverage, my arc gets shifted way to the left.

What works for me to eliminate the above "leverage" actions and create speed is to visualize the target and try to return the entire club back to the tangent of the arc on the target line (where the ball is) on the same arc that I used on the backswing. There is a drill in the book where Manual shows how to start your backswing with the club about a foot or so behind the ball and inside of the target line on the backswing arc. Kind of like the Moe Norman starting position. Manual also advocates the drill where you take the club to the top of your backswing and swing back to the ball very slowly so you can see how the club moves back to the ball.

Once you can have some success in getting the club on the right arc back to the target line, you can really swing your arms as fast as you can.

Remember, I am just trying to help based on my experience and I am no expert in terms of dispensing Manny's approach.

[tm3]

thanks, pearl. i will pull out those two exercises and give them a go.

this reminds me of working with the Whippy Tempomaster training club, which has a flexible shaft kind of like a fishing rod. any tendency to "lever" the Whippy results in a really disastrous shot. the key swing thought, per the developer, is to "never let the shaft bend." he practices what he preaches, going over 300 yards with the Whippy driver and 200 yards with the 7i.

a while back i spent a lot of time with the Whippy and got to the point that i could hit repeatable straight shots as long as i swung really easy. but i never could hit anything close to a full shot with it.

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='tm3' timestamp='1400622587' post='9334489']
>[color=#282828]I highly recommend the drill posted in the "Easiest Swing in Golf" video I linked to above - really helped me practice the smooth free-flowing arm motion. <[/color]

[color=#282828]are you talking about his his holding the club horizontal and pivoting back and forth? that is a drill from the "orange whip" site, also.[/color]

[color=#282828]Pearl and steve[/color]

[color=#282828]getting a little ahead here but how do you all see making the transition from smooth tension free EASY swing and a smooth tension free POWERFUL swing? [/color][color=#282828]i have [/color]
[color=#282828]experimented with "swing the clubhead" type exercises and am pretty reproducible as long as the swing is easy and there is no distance to the shot. when i have tried to add power i think that the tendency has been to use the club like a lever and the results are not pretty.[/color]


[/quote]
I know I'm not either of those gentlemen, but I think the term POWERFUL should be replaced with the terms SMOOTH and ACCELERATING.

It's intention. Swing the club with the upper arms at the target and finish at the left shoulder.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='tm3' timestamp='1400681741' post='9338951']
thanks, pearl. i will pull out those two exercises and give them a go.

this reminds me of working with the Whippy Tempomaster training club, which has a flexible shaft kind of like a fishing rod. any tendency to "lever" the Whippy results in a really disastrous shot. the key swing thought, per the developer, is to "never let the shaft bend." he practices what he preaches, going over 300 yards with the Whippy driver and 200 yards with the 7i.

a while back i spent a lot of time with the Whippy and got to the point that i could hit repeatable straight shots as long as i swung really easy. but i never could hit anything close to a full shot with it.
[/quote]

Remember to always go back to the movement of the club. That is the only thing that matters. If you move the club correctly on the arc than you won't ever be adding leverage and will attain the swinging motion.

[4thand11]

I also find it helps me to visualize a Stricker swing in terms of my hands. Big problem I was having was moving my hands too close to my head on the backswing and losing the arc. By thinking of a more Stricker-like backswing it helps me keep the hands away and keep a nice arc. De la Torre mentions that we shouldn't be thinking of keeping the left arm straight, but must be aware of not bringing our hands too close to our heads on the backswing and losing the arc of the circle.

[ericpaul2]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400682278' post='9339021']
[quote name='tm3' timestamp='1400681741' post='9338951']
thanks, pearl. i will pull out those two exercises and give them a go.

this reminds me of working with the Whippy Tempomaster training club, which has a flexible shaft kind of like a fishing rod. any tendency to "lever" the Whippy results in a really disastrous shot. the key swing thought, per the developer, is to "never let the shaft bend." he practices what he preaches, going over 300 yards with the Whippy driver and 200 yards with the 7i.

a while back i spent a lot of time with the Whippy and got to the point that i could hit repeatable straight shots as long as i swung really easy. but i never could hit anything close to a full shot with it.
[/quote]

Remember to always go back to the movement of the club. That is the only thing that matters. If you move the club correctly on the arc than you won't ever be adding leverage and will attain the swinging motion.
[/quote]

100%.

I think some responders to this thread read "movement of the club" and fall back to thinking about how to move their hands, or arms, or body to make the club move. We mean, feel the club swinging, feel how is moves, how the shaft moves, the clubhead, the handle and then move it so that it swings to target. Feel if it moves as you intended it to move. Do not monitor your hands, or arms, or body, just the whole club (not just the clubhead). Do not move it so that the clubhead moves faster than the rest of the club. Do not hold the handle ahead of the clubhead. Swing the whole club to the target.

As you work on this, you may find that you make small adjustments, but these should be to how the club moves (e.g. swinging more forward, and less down, or more forward and less around). Regardless, you need to focus on moving the tool, your body will work out how to make that happen (and more quickly than you expect).

[The Pearl]

[quote name='ericpaul2' timestamp='1400696819' post='9340809']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400682278' post='9339021']
[quote name='tm3' timestamp='1400681741' post='9338951']
thanks, pearl. i will pull out those two exercises and give them a go.

this reminds me of working with the Whippy Tempomaster training club, which has a flexible shaft kind of like a fishing rod. any tendency to "lever" the Whippy results in a really disastrous shot. the key swing thought, per the developer, is to "never let the shaft bend." he practices what he preaches, going over 300 yards with the Whippy driver and 200 yards with the 7i.

a while back i spent a lot of time with the Whippy and got to the point that i could hit repeatable straight shots as long as i swung really easy. but i never could hit anything close to a full shot with it.
[/quote]

Remember to always go back to the movement of the club. That is the only thing that matters. If you move the club correctly on the arc than you won't ever be adding leverage and will attain the swinging motion.
[/quote]

100%.

I think some responders to this thread read "movement of the club" and fall back to thinking about how to move their hands, or arms, or body to make the club move. We mean, feel the club swinging, feel how is moves, how the shaft moves, the clubhead, the handle and then move it so that it swings to target. Feel if it moves as you intended it to move. Do not monitor your hands, or arms, or body, just the whole club (not just the clubhead). Do not move it so that the clubhead moves faster than the rest of the club. Do not hold the handle ahead of the clubhead. Swing the whole club to the target.

As you work on this, you may find that you make small adjustments, but these should be to how the club moves (e.g. swinging more forward, and less down, or more forward and less around). Regardless, you need to focus on moving the tool, your body will work out how to make that happen (and more quickly than you expect).
[/quote]

During my lesson, in his book, and in the Golf Channel video with Peter Kessler, Manuel always stresses that the golf swing is a matter of geometry. During my lesson he said I should visualize how the club was supposed to move in my swing with the target as the goal. What has helped me tremendously this season is when I address the ball I imagine/visualize my swing arc as if it was able to be projected visually overlaying my swing. Think the yellow stripe projected on your TV screen during a football game to signal the first down distance.

So in my backswing, I am using both hands to swing the club head along my imaginary path up over my right shoulder (the club head goes back, in, and up). On the forward swing the only thought I have is to swing the entire club back along the same imaginary path which will always be towards the target. On the forward swing, focus solely on moving the entire club. DO NOT focus on any body movement whatsoever. I think, you find that the ONLY real way you can get that club on that path and therefore geometrically on the arc is to swing the upper arms. You don't have to actively engage them. They will become the primary mover automatically and the rest of the entire body will respond as the club swings along your arc until the end of the forward swing. Once your mental intent is to swing back to the target on that arc, your brain will take over.

If you lead with the shoulders or throw the hands you will automatically be outside the arc and swinging left. If you lead with the hips, you will spin out or slide the center of the swing forward.

There is an article floating around on the internet, I believe it is at Ed LeBeau's site in which Manual gave the Touring Pro Johnathan Kaye a lesson and in order to Kaye back swinging on the arc, Manual stood about two feet directly behind the ball on the target line and had Kaye swing. Notice, Manual was not changing anything with Kaye other than how we was moving the club on the arc.

[The Pearl]

http://www.heartlandgolfschools.com/articles/magazine/article7.html

[The Pearl]

The aerial views are quite revealing. Watch how these guys move the club. Don't watch them, just watch the club.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olesKFME1rg[/media]

[Cicero]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400702820' post='9341463']The aerial views are quite revealing. Watch how these guys move the club. Don't watch them, just watch the club.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olesKFME1rg[/media][/quote]

This may just be the most helpful angle of the golf swing I've ever seen, especially as it pertains to the MDLT method. You are indeed a pearl, sir...

[The Pearl]

Cicero,


It is pretty mind blowing isn't it? Despite the physical differences amongst the guys and slight individual differences, particularly the backswing, the club does the same exact thing for each player. You can see the circular arc with the center point (Manuel taught me the notch of the sternum), the club swinging over the right shoulder, the club being parallel to the target line at all the points on the circle that Manuel explains in the book, and the club finishing up over the left shoulder.

The angle on Greg Normal, is amazing. His takeaway in which he establishes the arc is what I have been using as my mental picture.

Anybody know who the second player is?

[Cicero]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400711210' post='9342337']Cicero,


It is pretty mind blowing isn't it? Despite the physical differences amongst the guys and slight individual differences, particularly the backswing, the club does the same exact thing for each player. You can see the circular arc with the center point (Manuel taught me the notch of the sternum), the club swinging over the right shoulder, the club being parallel to the target line at all the points on the circle that Manuel explains in the book, and the club finishing up over the left shoulder.
[/quote]

It's amazing what a change in perspective can do. For me, I'm a visual learner, so seeing what the club does from that angle is a real eye-opener. It has altered my mental picture of how to swing a club.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='Cicero' timestamp='1400713244' post='9342495']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400711210' post='9342337']Cicero,


It is pretty mind blowing isn't it? Despite the physical differences amongst the guys and slight individual differences, particularly the backswing, the club does the same exact thing for each player. You can see the circular arc with the center point (Manuel taught me the notch of the sternum), the club swinging over the right shoulder, the club being parallel to the target line at all the points on the circle that Manuel explains in the book, and the club finishing up over the left shoulder.
[/quote]

It's amazing what a change in perspective can do. For me, I'm a visual learner, so seeing what the club does from that angle is a real eye-opener. It has altered my mental picture of how to swing a club.
[/quote]

I find from this angle, particularly if you focus on the club more so than the player, the swings are pretty uniform and less indistinguishable. Even Arnie, known for his "lash", from this angle seems sedate.

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400714607' post='9342677']
[quote name='Cicero' timestamp='1400713244' post='9342495']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400711210' post='9342337']Cicero,


It is pretty mind blowing isn't it? Despite the physical differences amongst the guys and slight individual differences, particularly the backswing, the club does the same exact thing for each player. You can see the circular arc with the center point (Manuel taught me the notch of the sternum), the club swinging over the right shoulder, the club being parallel to the target line at all the points on the circle that Manuel explains in the book, and the club finishing up over the left shoulder.
[/quote]

It's amazing what a change in perspective can do. For me, I'm a visual learner, so seeing what the club does from that angle is a real eye-opener. It has altered my mental picture of how to swing a club.
[/quote]

I find from this angle, particularly if you focus on the club more so than the player, the swings are pretty uniform and less indistinguishable. Even Arnie, known for his "lash", from this angle seems sedate.
[/quote]Arnies swing was a little more sedate when he was younger, but yes you make a good point...don't watch all the gyrations just the club, Arnie could pure it in his day!

[northgolf]

I have been going back over "Understanding the Golf Swing" quite a bit the last couple of weeks. I am finding MDLT's concept of coiling quite interesting. He first mentions it in bullet point 6 on page 8:

"6. Wrist action will be an involuntary reaction to the coiling action (backswing) and the uncoiling action (forward swing) of the club..."

He then mentions it on page 51 when defining the forward swing:

"[i][b]Forward Swing[/b][/i]
First, a definition: the [i]arm[/i] is that portion of the extremity from the shoulder to the elbow, the rest of it to the wrist is the [i]forearm[/i]. Once the player reaches the end of the backswing, the responsibility for the rest of the motion (the forward swing) belongs to the arms. The arms then swing the entire club to the end of the swing in one uninterrupted motion. The arms through their speed are responsible for maintaining the coil produced by the hands in the backswing. This coil should be maintained as long as possible without creating any tension. The coil enables the golfer to generate maximum speed. The greater the arm speed, the longer the coil will be retained. When the arm speed can not be increased, golfers have reached the limit of their distance. When the hands are used in the forward swing, the coil is [i]destroyed, [/i]and the arms will slow down thereby decreasing the swing speed as well."

I have found the feel of the coil transitions the focus of the swing from my hands in the backswing to my arms in the forward swing - this was an issue for me earlier in the thread. I do not think the coil is theoretical at all - it is through the coil that I feel the entire club (grip to head) swing forward. The bit about using the hands going forward destroying the coil feel is gospel for me.

[The Pearl]

There are nuggets of gold sprinkled throughout the entire book. I think I have read it at least a dozen times and even more often in certain sections. His use of specific language is brilliant.

[IamMarkMac]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1400720056' post='9343339']
I have been going back over "Understanding the Golf Swing" quite a bit the last couple of weeks. I am finding MDLT's concept of coiling quite interesting. He first mentions it in bullet point 6 on page 8:

"6. Wrist action will be an involuntary reaction to the coiling action (backswing) and the uncoiling action (forward swing) of the club..."

He then mentions it on page 51 when defining the forward swing:

"[i][b]Forward Swing[/b][/i]
First, a definition: the [i]arm[/i] is that portion of the extremity from the shoulder to the elbow, the rest of it to the wrist is the [i]forearm[/i]. Once the player reaches the end of the backswing, the responsibility for the rest of the motion (the forward swing) belongs to the arms. The arms then swing the entire club to the end of the swing in one uninterrupted motion. The arms through their speed are responsible for maintaining the coil produced by the hands in the backswing. This coil should be maintained as long as possible without creating any tension. The coil enables the golfer to generate maximum speed. The greater the arm speed, the longer the coil will be retained. When the arm speed can not be increased, golfers have reached the limit of their distance. When the hands are used in the forward swing, the coil is [i]destroyed, [/i]and the arms will slow down thereby decreasing the swing speed as well."

I have found the feel of the coil transitions the focus of the swing from my hands in the backswing to my arms in the forward swing - this was an issue for me earlier in the thread. I do not think the coil is theoretical at all - it is through the coil that I feel the entire club (grip to head) swing forward. The bit about using the hands going forward destroying the coil feel is gospel for me.
[/quote]

This is the main reason I feel that I should get a session.

To me, passages like the above would be far easier to absorb when shown and guided versus reading and attempting to construct from the description. I can't help but feel that the teachings of the book would just explode into sense in a live setting.

[lsh]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1400720056' post='9343339']
I have been going back over "Understanding the Golf Swing" quite a bit the last couple of weeks. I am finding MDLT's concept of coiling quite interesting. He first mentions it in bullet point 6 on page 8:

"6. Wrist action will be an involuntary reaction to the coiling action (backswing) and the uncoiling action (forward swing) of the club..."

He then mentions it on page 51 when defining the forward swing:

"[i][b]Forward Swing[/b][/i]
First, a definition: the [i]arm[/i] is that portion of the extremity from the shoulder to the elbow, the rest of it to the wrist is the [i]forearm[/i]. Once the player reaches the end of the backswing, the responsibility for the rest of the motion (the forward swing) belongs to the arms. The arms then swing the entire club to the end of the swing in one uninterrupted motion. The arms through their speed are responsible for maintaining the coil produced by the hands in the backswing. This coil should be maintained as long as possible without creating any tension. The coil enables the golfer to generate maximum speed. The greater the arm speed, the longer the coil will be retained. When the arm speed can not be increased, golfers have reached the limit of their distance. When the hands are used in the forward swing, the coil is [i]destroyed, [/i]and the arms will slow down thereby decreasing the swing speed as well."

I have found the feel of the coil transitions the focus of the swing from my hands in the backswing to my arms in the forward swing - this was an issue for me earlier in the thread. I do not think the coil is theoretical at all - it is through the coil that I feel the entire club (grip to head) swing forward. The bit about using the hands going forward destroying the coil feel is gospel for me.
[/quote]

I believe the "coil" had been missing in my attempts to implement Manuel's concepts. In trying to swing the club over the rear shoulder with my hands I was doing too much lifting of the club and not coiling. This lead to a lot of misses and caused my straight shots to be high & short.
I also need to do a better job of visualizing the swing on its path, back & through. Tonight, if it doesn't rain me out, I am going to work on that and use pearls smaller portion of the arc near the ball.

Thanks to all who have been contributing to my enlightenment.

[juststeve]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400702820' post='9341463']
The aerial views are quite revealing. Watch how these guys move the club. Don't watch them, just watch the club.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olesKFME1rg[/media]
[/quote]

Pearl:

Thanks for posting the overheads. Great visuals for those having difficulty understanding what it means to swing the club around a fixed swing center. Also evidence for how universal the true swing is. There are a lot of ways to hit at the golf ball but every really good player I know of does it by SWINGING the club as Manny defines Swinging. I would love to see some shots from the same angle of some Ballard people but I'm willing to bet that they are also swinging around a fixed swing center.

Steve

[The Pearl]

Steve,

Thanks for being our leader and spiritual adviser and keeping us on track.

[bdcava]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1400775980' post='9347395']
Steve,

Thanks for being our leader and spiritual adviser and keeping us on track.
[/quote]
Ditto!

[northgolf]

Well, it has been a few weeks since I decided to devote this season to following MDLT's teaching. I am finding it a mental challenge; that is, maintaining the proper intent on each swing is not an ingrained habit for me and I lose it at times. I have found that when I hit a bad shot then I will go back to the proper intent (swing the club head back and the entire club forward in one motion) and I will hit good shots.

Using the swing intent during chips has cured my chipping yips which I have suffered through for the last 3 years, and that is a god send for my enjoyment of the game. I have also enjoyed some great driving (77%, 86%, 69%, 92%, 83% fairways in the last 5 rounds). I played 9 on Thursday and finished even par. Overall, I am back to playing to ~6 handicap (I had slipped to 10 with winter rust). I am beginning to believe I will break through the 5 HCPI level that I have stalled at these last three years.

5 more months to this season.

[99andaflake]

This thread has inspired me to purchase and read De la Torre's book. I'm hoping someone can add some clarification for me.

In both the book and the golf channel video posted earlier in this thread, Manuel demonstrates a slow motion swing where the whole club, not just the clubhead, returns to the address position on the downswing. To do this, I feel I have to consciously use my wrists; If I don't use the wrists, I end up with forward shaft lean, i.e the shaft is not in the same position as it is at address (but is essentially at a 'textbook' impact position). What confuses me is that the slow motion drill requires you to consciously use a body part which should have no intent associated with it in the full speed swing.

Can someone who's met Manuel clarify what the intent should be in the slow motion drills? At the moment it seems odd to me that you would rehearse a motion that essentially causes you to trace the entire path of backswing down again in slow motion, even though in the full speed swing, the desired result is to have a different path on the downswing.

Cheers,
Greg

[lsh]

[quote name='99andaflake' timestamp='1401749005' post='9416899']
This thread has inspired me to purchase and read De la Torre's book. I'm hoping someone can add some clarification for me.

In both the book and the golf channel video posted earlier in this thread, Manuel demonstrates a slow motion swing where the whole club, not just the clubhead, returns to the address position on the downswing. To do this, I feel I have to consciously use my wrists; If I don't use the wrists, I end up with forward shaft lean, i.e the shaft is not in the same position as it is at address (but is essentially at a 'textbook' impact position). What confuses me is that the slow motion drill requires you to consciously use a body part which should have no intent associated with it in the full speed swing.

Can someone who's met Manuel clarify what the intent should be in the slow motion drills? At the moment it seems odd to me that you would rehearse a motion that essentially causes you to trace the entire path of backswing down again in slow motion, even though in the full speed swing, the desired result is to have a different path on the downswing.

Cheers,
Greg
[/quote]
Not an expert by any means. My understanding of Manuel's teachings is he does not advocate a forward leaning shaft. At address with the grip neutral and the clubhead behind the ball the club should point toward the center of the body.
I have only read the book twice now and had a two hour lesson a couple weeks ago so I am hesitant to offer advice. During my lesson Manny emphasized swinging the club to the target with the arms. I had a couple faults while swining. 1) was I swung to the left of the target too much usually due to starting with the shoulders and not swinging with the arms. 2) swinging the clubhead at the ball. ( fixing this was a key for me )
For #2 what worked for me recently was remembering in the book the hand motion drill where you extend your arm and move your hand back and forth. ( Hand motion ) Then keeping your wrist loose and moving your hand back and forth by moving your arm rapidly back & forth.
My last round I focused on swinging the club with my arms while keeping my wrists loose. This kept me from trying to control the club with my hands and throwing the clubhead at the ball.
I hate to talk about it for fear of jinxing myself but after Sundays round I am really feeling good about this.
A different Steve.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='lsh' timestamp='1401792436' post='9419657']
[quote name='99andaflake' timestamp='1401749005' post='9416899']
This thread has inspired me to purchase and read De la Torre's book. I'm hoping someone can add some clarification for me.

In both the book and the golf channel video posted earlier in this thread, Manuel demonstrates a slow motion swing where the whole club, not just the clubhead, returns to the address position on the downswing. To do this, I feel I have to consciously use my wrists; If I don't use the wrists, I end up with forward shaft lean, i.e the shaft is not in the same position as it is at address (but is essentially at a 'textbook' impact position). What confuses me is that the slow motion drill requires you to consciously use a body part which should have no intent associated with it in the full speed swing.

Can someone who's met Manuel clarify what the intent should be in the slow motion drills? At the moment it seems odd to me that you would rehearse a motion that essentially causes you to trace the entire path of backswing down again in slow motion, even though in the full speed swing, the desired result is to have a different path on the downswing.

Cheers,
Greg
[/quote]
Not an expert by any means. My understanding of Manuel's teachings is he does not advocate a forward leaning shaft. At address with the grip neutral and the clubhead behind the ball the club should point toward the center of the body.
I have only read the book twice now and had a two hour lesson a couple weeks ago so I am hesitant to offer advice. During my lesson Manny emphasized swinging the club to the target with the arms. I had a couple faults while swining. 1) was I swung to the left of the target too much usually due to starting with the shoulders and not swinging with the arms. 2) swinging the clubhead at the ball. ( fixing this was a key for me )
For #2 what worked for me recently was remembering in the book the hand motion drill where you extend your arm and move your hand back and forth. ( Hand motion ) Then keeping your wrist loose and moving your hand back and forth by moving your arm rapidly back & forth.
My last round I focused on swinging the club with my arms while keeping my wrists loose. This kept me from trying to control the club with my hands and throwing the clubhead at the ball.
I hate to talk about it for fear of jinxing myself but after Sundays round I am really feeling good about this.
A different Steve.
[/quote]

How was your lesson?

[nut]

The Pearl wrote,

"Manuel always stresses that the golf swing is a matter of geometry. During my lesson he said I should visualize how the club was supposed to move in my swing with the target as the goal. What has helped me tremendously this season is when I address the ball I imagine/visualize my swing arc as if it was able to be projected visually overlaying my swing. Think the yellow stripe projected on your TV screen during a football game to signal the first down distance.

So in my backswing, I am using both hands to swing the club head along my imaginary path..."

Pearl, I found the image below on the internet. Does this have anything to do with the imaginary path you were discussing above?

(file not found)