Hogans secret

[Toth]

Before I start, a little back ground on me.

*i have been stuck at a 3 handicap for 3 years.

* played a year of college golf

* have been a very streaky player my entire life.

*always seemed to struggle with ball striking after my hot streak ends or timing is off.

*my miss is a hard draw or "hook"

 

I was out playing today, and I tried out sevam1's pre set right foot. I also tried hogans move at impact or his release style that you can see in his famous impact pictures. I was able to understand this move thanks to slicefixer's video on YouTube. I hit a couple balls with my strong grip and struggled at first. After I moved my ball position up a tad I started to hit this beautiful long fade. After I got the hang of the release, I was able to hit the ball as hard as I wanted and hit this slight fade. My ball striking improved 100% and was hitting the sweet spot every time. I think it has to be a combination of the 2 moves from SEVAM1 and the hogan style release. This is just my theory and I really hope I can repeat this move day in and day out. I played an extra 9 and my ball striking remained the same with no signs of slowing down. The only reason i am posting is because i have never hit the ball like this in my entire life!!!! I will post a video of my swing within the next couple of days.

 

So overall, maybe hogan figured out what was important in the golf swing rather than a secret. You see all kinds of tour players having various swings and grips yet they all seem to hit the ball very well day in and day out. It seems like the best ball strikers all had a hogan style release for the most part anyway. I think that these 2 moves will help everyone with their ball striking. I would love to hear other opinions, thoughts, and experiences doing these moves. Also if you guys have any thoughts on hogan secrets or theory's please share All comments are appreciated !!!

[ej002]

what do you mean hogan style release, the left wrist bowing./turning down?

[alansmithdc]

[quote name='Toth' timestamp='1398823125' post='9200543']
Before I start, a little back ground on me.
*i have been stuck at a 3 handicap for 3 years.
* played a year of college golf
* have been a very streaky player my entire life.
*always seemed to struggle with ball striking after my hot streak ends or timing is off.
*my miss is a hard draw or "hook"

I was out playing today, and I tried out sevam1's pre set right foot. I also tried hogans move at impact or his release style that you can see in his famous impact pictures. I was able to understand this move thanks to slicefixer's video on YouTube. I hit a couple balls with my strong grip and struggled at first. After I moved my ball position up a tad I started to hit this beautiful long fade. After I got the hang of the release, I was able to hit the ball as hard as I wanted and hit this slight fade. My ball striking improved 100% and was hitting the sweet spot every time. I think it has to be a combination of the 2 moves from SEVAM1 and the hogan style release. This is just my theory and I really hope I can repeat this move day in and day out. I played an extra 9 and my ball striking remained the same with no signs of slowing down. The only reason i am posting is because i have never hit the ball like this in my entire life!!!! I will post a video of my swing within the next couple of days.

So overall, maybe hogan figured out what was important in the golf swing rather than a secret. You see all kinds of tour players having various swings and grips yet they all seem to hit the ball very well day in and day out. It seems like the best ball strikers all had a hogan style release for the most part anyway. I think that these 2 moves will help everyone with their ball striking. I would love to hear other opinions, thoughts, and experiences doing these moves. Also if you guys have any thoughts on hogan secrets or theory's please share All comments are appreciated !!!
[/quote]Congratulations on your ability to hit the Hogan fade. Proof that you were swinging with Hogan's dynamics Which by default means you were applying his secret.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1398871830' post='9203507']
what do you mean hogan style release, the left wrist bowing./turning down?
[/quote]

Ya my question too.

[limcauco]

[quote name='Toth' timestamp='1398823125' post='9200543']
Before I start, a little back ground on me.
*i have been stuck at a 3 handicap for 3 years.
* played a year of college golf
* have been a very streaky player my entire life.
*always seemed to struggle with ball striking after my hot streak ends or timing is off.
*my miss is a hard draw or "hook"

I was out playing today, and I tried out sevam1's pre set right foot. I also tried hogans move at impact or his release style that you can see in his famous impact pictures. I was able to understand this move thanks to slicefixer's video on YouTube. I hit a couple balls with my strong grip and struggled at first. After I moved my ball position up a tad I started to hit this beautiful long fade. After I got the hang of the release, I was able to hit the ball as hard as I wanted and hit this slight fade. My ball striking improved 100% and was hitting the sweet spot every time. I think it has to be a combination of the 2 moves from SEVAM1 and the hogan style release. This is just my theory and I really hope I can repeat this move day in and day out. I played an extra 9 and my ball striking remained the same with no signs of slowing down. The only reason i am posting is because i have never hit the ball like this in my entire life!!!! I will post a video of my swing within the next couple of days.

So overall, maybe hogan figured out what was important in the golf swing rather than a secret. You see all kinds of tour players having various swings and grips yet they all seem to hit the ball very well day in and day out. It seems like the best ball strikers all had a hogan style release for the most part anyway. I think that these 2 moves will help everyone with their ball striking. I would love to hear other opinions, thoughts, and experiences doing these moves. Also if you guys have any thoughts on hogan secrets or theory's please share All comments are appreciated !!!
[/quote]

Have a question---how did you post in here without the minimum 70 posts required?

[tembolo1284]

Wow good catch limcauco

[Fade]

[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1400064273' post='9292041']
Have a question---how did you post in here without the minimum 70 posts required?
[/quote]

I recall being able to start a thread here when I wasn't able to post in an existing thread, before I had reached the post-minimum.

Another possibility is that the thread was moved here from another area of the site.

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1398871830' post='9203507']
what do you mean hogan style release, the left wrist bowing./turning down?
[/quote]

In Slicefixers videos, he talks about there being only 2 ways to release the club.

- Forcing the release by rolling the wrists over after impact.
- Allowing the release to happen naturally where there is always leverage between the shaft and right arm after impact.

He uses Hogan and Snead (And many others) as examples of the 2nd type of release.

[limcauco]

Isn't the secret the cupped L wrist on top? It is in an article in Life magazine around 1955.

[A.G.Blade]

Geoff is right about Hogan releasing to body in a rotational fashion, but because Hogan stated in Life that the cup was his secret, ( it allowed him to open the club face in relation to the path/arc to the widest practical margin), but at impact was in a bowed position suggests to me he did something consciously with his hands. Also his statement of wishing he had 3 right hands makes me think of his awareness of his hands during the swing. Not to side track this topic but how/ when did he make this happen? Congrats to the OP on improvement , I've benn stuck at a 5 due to poor ballstriking

[bullrambler]

There are some equipment requirements to swing Hogan's swing.
1. Start with 7* flat club.
2. Shaft must be about XXStiff
3. Swingweight the club to about E

Everything falls into place with the above dynamics.

[A.G.Blade]

[quote name='bullrambler' timestamp='1404588408' post='9642345']
There are some equipment requirements to swing Hogan's swing.
1. Start with 7* flat club.
2. Shaft must be about XXStiff
3. Swingweight the club to about E

Everything falls into place with the above dynamics.
[/quote]The crazy thing is it would be hard enough to get irons like that, good luck with woods and hybrids!

[bullrambler]

A.G.Blade you have to make them by modifying vintage golf clubs. I play them now, and they are set very close to the specifications above. As challenging as it may seem to be - once one gets used to the specifications - good things start happening.

[Shaggie]

As Hogan said in his Life Magazine article his secret was what he remembered scottish pros telling him in the 30s about rotating hands back and rotating them back down and around the same way. It says he could not wait to get to the range the next morning and he went on a roll and won alot of money in the next few weeks using it for the rest of his life
So the secret is the Hand path which should be a perfect as a circle as you can get. not taking it back and dropping it inside
GolfSense training aid is the perfect device for monitoring your hand path

Tembolo please add your many word of wisdom

[ej002]

Problem is he was able to trap it with the old ball and hold the greens -
You can't get away with low bullets anymore. So you need to adapt his approach

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1410540779' post='10107393']
As Hogan said in his Life Magazine article his secret was what he remembered scottish pros telling him in the 30s about rotating hands back and rotating them back down and around the same way. It says he could not wait to get to the range the next morning and he went on a roll and won alot of money in the next few weeks using it for the rest of his life
So the secret is the Hand path which should be a perfect as a circle as you can get. not taking it back and dropping it inside
GolfSense training aid is the perfect device for monitoring your hand path

[/quote]

It's well known that the Life Magazine article does not reveal his true secret. The Hogan community around here is well aware of this. That's why you still have people studying his swing and trying to get to the bottom of it.

[Shaggie]

Steve
I cant find anywhere where he said this is not his secret . I think people should read the exact article. It is fun to discuss what seems to be a mystery but I think it is obvious. I know he was an honest man and he got 25k for the article.in the 50s
There is talk about pronation and supination which is the natural rolling of the forearms back and rolling them through
I have heard it said that it was not his secret but who knows
I am just a big fan of Ernest Jones and hands control the swing and the body reacts
I guess I am like a 3rd party political candidate where the ideas are seen as far fetched

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1410580064' post='10110351']
Problem is he was able to trap it with the old ball and hold the greens -
You can't get away with low bullets anymore. So you need to adapt his approach
[/quote]

How do we adapt it? Flip at it a hair more?

[JasonFL]

I think most of us can agree the left hand is your hook/slice hand (and so does Nicklaus).

So if your left wrist is bowed at impact, assuming you start with a weak grip (like Hogan), can you hook with his swing given that scenario?

[hoganswing]

Hogan never had a secret, he was just playing mind games.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411002690' post='10136833']
I think most of us can agree the left hand is your hook/slice hand (and so does Nicklaus).

So if your left wrist is bowed at impact, assuming you start with a weak grip (like Hogan), can you hook with his swing given that scenario?
[/quote]

That's a great question!

[JasonFL]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1411065674' post='10141749']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411002690' post='10136833']
I think most of us can agree the left hand is your hook/slice hand (and so does Nicklaus).

So if your left wrist is bowed at impact, assuming you start with a weak grip (like Hogan), can you hook with his swing given that scenario?
[/quote]

That's a great question!
[/quote]

I tried this today.

Focused on bowed left hand, layed off right hand, and leading with my right elbow.

Amazing is all Im saying. Dead straight low bullets all day!!!

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411080667' post='10143313']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1411065674' post='10141749']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411002690' post='10136833']
I think most of us can agree the left hand is your hook/slice hand (and so does Nicklaus).

So if your left wrist is bowed at impact, assuming you start with a weak grip (like Hogan), can you hook with his swing given that scenario?
[/quote]

That's a great question!
[/quote]

I tried this today.

Focused on bowed left hand, layed off right hand, and leading with my right elbow.

Amazing is all Im saying. Dead straight low bullets all day!!!
[/quote]

If you shallow it enough you'll be able to draw it if you close your stance a bit. Don't forget to swish those arms quickly. Go after it!

[JasonFL]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1411128292' post='10146227']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411080667' post='10143313']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1411065674' post='10141749']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1411002690' post='10136833']
I think most of us can agree the left hand is your hook/slice hand (and so does Nicklaus).

So if your left wrist is bowed at impact, assuming you start with a weak grip (like Hogan), can you hook with his swing given that scenario?
[/quote]

That's a great question!
[/quote]

I tried this today.

Focused on bowed left hand, layed off right hand, and leading with my right elbow.

Amazing is all Im saying. Dead straight low bullets all day!!!
[/quote]

If you shallow it enough you'll be able to draw it if you close your stance a bit. Don't forget to swish those arms quickly. Go after it!
[/quote]

I had good success with this on the range today. Can push as hard as I want to with my right arm through the shot. Only played with this for two days so it doesnt quite translate to the wedges as well as the longer clubs. Getting there though.

[Coat Jones]

A lot of dancing around the real dynamic in my opinion. Surprising to me many folks don't see it, and instead choose to spend time in the minutiae- which are results of intention compliance, except for the grip alteration- but that appears to be a personal choice. He did not wake up one morning and retool in one day something he spent a lifetime developing. Instead, he saw the situation confronting him for what it actually is spatially, and in relation to a destination divided by a shot selection, and the solution is really quite easy dynamically.

At address the club is in front of the right arm, it flips behind and above the right arm during the initial load going back-in-up toward transition, and the club [u]continues to trail the right arm all the way through the zone[/u] ( this is a horizontal load property )including the strike obviously, until it is released and moves ahead, or back in front, of the arm past the ball.

The zone piece is not negotiable about the club trailing the back arm, but how, when, or if, the club passes the trail arm post impact is negotiable.

[JasonFL]

[quote name='Coat Jones' timestamp='1411162931' post='10149681']
A lot of dancing around the real dynamic in my opinion. Surprising to me many folks don't see it, and instead choose to spend time in the minutiae- which are results of intention compliance, except for the grip alteration- but that appears to be a personal choice. He did not wake up one morning and retool in one day something he spent a lifetime developing. Instead, he saw the situation confronting him for what it actually is spatially, and in relation to a destination divided by a shot selection, and the solution is really quite easy dynamically.

At address the club is in front of the right arm, it flips behind and above the right arm during the initial load going back-in-up toward transition, and the club [u]continues to trail the right arm all the way through the zone[/u] ( this is a horizontal load property )including the strike obviouslly, until it is released and moves ahead, or back in front, of the arm past the ball.

The zone piece is not negotiable about the club trailing the back arm, but how, when, or if, the club passes the trail arm post impact is negotiable.
[/quote]

If you lead with the right elbow (as Hogan did)..... I don't believe its possible to have the club ahead of your trail arm. Ever? I mean maybe if he had a massive body stall and flipped to square the face....but we all know that didnt happen.

[Coat Jones]

Yes Jason FL, good observation, but the word "ever" would be negotiable way past impact approaching the settle.

[tembolo1284]

Schoen is a disease.

[Coat Jones]

Why the comment about "Schoen", tembolo1284. The comment seems to come out of nowhere and therefore doesn't appear to have continuity with the thread. Has he posted on this page under a different name?

[Lime Shark]

[quote name='hoganswing' timestamp='1411003175' post='10136903']
Hogan never had a secret, he was just playing mind games.
[/quote]

This might have been true early on, as he was known to have teased other golfers that asked him about his early improvement with the line "I've got a secret."

There's no question that Hogan had several things that were [b]unique[/b] to his swing. The bowed wrist was one of them. Hogan went to his grave declaring this was his secret--the one big change he made that improved his swing. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he as telling the truth--the cupped wrist was his "secret."

Tom Bertrand (who received hand-me-down instruction from Hogan through John Schlee) in his book and videos lists two interesting moves in Hogan's swing:

1) The laying off of the club. This is done by straigtening the cupped leading wrist. This forces the elbow down against the body; forward of the hip; and causes the tip of the elbow to point down the target line.

2) The leading elbow rotates forward to close the club--not the hand; not the wrist--the leading elbow. Bertrand refers to it as tripping the club.

Neither of these moves would work without the cupped wrist. The cupped wrist enables the layoff move, and the layoff move puts the arms in the correct position to allow the elbow rotation to work. Of couse, this assumes Bertrand knows what he is talking about, and not just blowing smoke.

The point I'm trying to make is Hogan may have considered the cupped wrist his "secret" because it was the key that enabled other parts of his swing to work.