Walter Hagen The Haig irons? Info? Forged? Years Made?

[traderjason]

Hi Fellow Classic Enthusiasts,

I've searched high and low on this sight as well as the internet for any information on Walter Hagen The Haig irons. These are the Hagen irons where "The Haig" is in script on the toe. There are also "The Haig" irons in block letters on the toe. From what I can tell they were manufactured in 1980-1984. Can anyone tell me if they were forged or cast? Specs (I'm assuming they are playing off a 50 degree PW). Also the shafts, which are the CF-4 (Control Flex 4). I believe the 4, plus the thin red band signifies stiff flex?

 

Also came with a set of Prima "Oil Hardened" woods which appear to be persimmon and a Wilson Tour Special I forged 8802 style putter.

 

What can I expect in terms of playability of the above referenced clubs?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. I've attached a picture from the internet of a right hand model, mine are left hand and in very nice condition. I'll update pictures when they arrive from the Bay.

[idrive]

I'm not much help answering your questions but, I remember drooling over those irons many years a go.

Had to be some of the sweetest irons ever.

I do think they are a bit older than what you're thinking which is not a bad thing. Again I'm not really sure.

Looking forward to pics when you get them.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

I am pretty sure they are forged Steel

[rex235]

According to the Golf Club Identification and Price Guide III- pg 21-2

These forged models of "The Haig" in script are from 1980-1983, which follows the BLOCK "THE HAIG" in 1978-79.

A very underrated blade, as these are the forerunners of the "Crenshaw Grind"...

Unfortunately, as we all know, the Walter Hagen "Crenshaw Grind" was RH Only, so your LH models are some of the last from the great Walter Hagen/ Wilson group.

Would appreciate seeing photos of the LH model for comparison.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Yep these are forged steel, and were made by Wilson. You can see the bore through hosel in the heel, and there are certainly a lot of similarities between these and their Tour Blade/FG-17 cousins. In fact, some of the old Hagen clubs had a shield similar to the Wilson Staff one, but with W/H in it instead of W/S.

Thin red band signified stiff flex in Wilson manufactured clubs.

Playbility wise, I've always liked the look of the Haigs, but the CG looks higher and more towards the toe vs. my FG-17s. I would think for a digger, these might be a bit better than for a picker/sweeper like me. I know one of our folks in the classics forum here says something regularly about "prying his Haigs from his cold, dead hands".

[dbuck47]

I am pretty sure you are correct on the red line being stiff. If I am not mistaken, the Walter Hagen brand was owned by the Wilson company and this was during what I consider a high water mark for them.

The woods I believe will be similar to Wilson woods of the same period, while the irons were obviously a little different with the flanged blade style.

This was top quality equipment for the period.

[dbuck47]

Ha, Scooter I was posting at the same time as you.

[rex235]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1403635534' post='9567899']
Yep these are forged steel, and were made by Wilson. You can see the bore through hosel in the heel, and there are certainly a lot of similarities between these and their Tour Blade/FG-17 cousins. In fact, some of the old Hagen clubs had a shield similar to the Wilson Staff one, but with W/H in it instead of W/S.

Thin red band signified stiff flex in Wilson manufactured clubs.

Playbility wise, I've always liked the look of the Haigs, but the CG looks higher and more towards the toe vs. my FG-17s. I would think for a digger, these might be a bit better than for a picker/sweeper like me. I know one of our folks in the classics forum here says something regularly about "prying his Haigs from his cold, dead hands".
[/quote]

Scooter-

+1... My dad left his MacGregor MT irons in the trunk, and put his "Fluid Feel Haigs" in the bag.

He remained a Haig Ultra man for the rest of his days, with the "Red Button UltraDyne" irons his last set.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Played these since I was 18. Ya, the script ones are from early 80s. They didn't always come with the CF shafts, only ones I had like that were ones I bought later, for some reason I hated the CF shafts, maybe just blaming the arrow?

Getting specs on them is impossible, pm me if you manage, I even tried emailing Wilson IIRC.

I've bought a few sets of these over the years, and given the time frame, they are definitely in the 50-51 PW range (then 4 degrees per club). I like to think 51 which is how I get all mine bent. I'd be very surprised to find out they came stock stronger than 50.

IMO the SW is useless for anything but the sand.

edit: just in case anyone re reads this old thread, and cares lol, they made a couple different types of SW in this set, one had a huge flange and wasn't much use out of the bunker, the other was similar to the rest of the set.



I've read they are light, which I can sort of confirm given my limited experience with other clubs. The sweet spot is in the meat of the club and toe hit's aren't all DOA, unless we're talking about the longer irons. Easy clubs to aim. The high irons really have a great trajectory if you ask me, some of the prettiest shots you will ever see.

You won't get much help on fat shots, thin shots don't always air mail the green like I suspect they might with some newer clubs. Better thin that fat, probably the same with all old blades.

I've suspected for some time now the fluid feels to be sort of early game improvement clubs, with the sweet spot into the center of the club where there's a bit more room for slight mishits. I really don't find them punishing until you get into the longer irons. Ya, the mid irons like to be hit well, but you can still count on muscling something out of them if you at least hit the grooves.

[rex235]

Weekend-

Some very nice shots were holed from the long grass with my '61 Haig Ultra SI.

And yes, it is a great Sand Iron...

[traderjason]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses and little bit of history. I'm glad to hear they are forged and not cast like the set of Ultradyne II's I dabbled with in the past. Those were surprisingly playable as the blade size was actually larger than my Titleist 710MB's. I am a sweeper much more than a digger so the thin soles don't bother me as much. The CF shafts look like they have a variable step pattern (I've seen some of the other The Haigs come with dynamic shafts). I figured the red band signified stiff, but wasn't sure as I've seen some with CF-3 and some with CF-4 (maybe regular and stiff similar to the Hogan Apex shafts?)

As far as blade size, are these similar to the Wilson FG-17's, which I thought I remember being quite small? As opposed to the Ultradyne II's which were actually larger heel to toe and had a decent amount of offset?


Here is the actual picture from the Ebay ad, the rest are protected images so I'll snap a few when they come in. This shows the Prima woods better than the irons.

[Wknd_Warrior]

The 8 and up are larger with roundish corners. The 7 and down are smaller and squarer. I would think they'd be classified as compact square toe as a set, I think that's what ironfinder says.

[super20dan]

the wilson tour special 1 is a good putter too. poormans 8802 .

[Wknd_Warrior]

I've also got the Haig putter from the same era, basically a poor mans 8802 as well

[HoganApexBlades]

Not trying to hijack this thread at all. I just thought I'd enhance it for all the Lefties out there who love Persimmon!

Here's a LH Prima III driver that I found at a thrift store not long ago. It has a TT Dynamic Gold S200U shaft with the original Prima Grip Rite black with white trim rubber grip.

[attachment=2291451:PRIMAIII1.jpg]

[attachment=2291453:PRIMAIII2.jpg]

[attachment=2291455:PRIMAIII3.jpg]

[attachment=2291457:PRIMAIII4.jpg]

[attachment=2291459:PRIMAIII5.jpg]

[attachment=2291461:PRIMAIII6.jpg]

[attachment=2291463:PRIMAIII7.jpg]

[attachment=2291465:PRIMAIII8.jpg]

[attachment=2291467:PRIMAIII9.jpg]

[attachment=2291469:PRIMAIII10.jpg]

[attachment=2291471:PRIMAIII11.jpg]

[traderjason]

No threadjack at all...thanks for sharing! How do those Prima persimmons play? I've never heard of Prima, are they an off brand? The set I just bought has a driver, 3, and 4 wood. I was thinking of at least putting the fairway woods in play and going semi-vintage with a Titleist 975 LFE driver with MFS bright orange shaft. Plus the Hagen irons, Wilson putter, and now I need to find a sandwedge. Thinking a Wilson JP or Hogan Special BeCu...

[Kathy Marie]

From _Golf Club Design, Fitting, Alteration & Repair_ by Ralph Maltby, Revised Fourth Edition:

All lofts listed for 1982 Wilson mens model clubs are the same, those models were Wilson Staff, Wilson Aggressor, Wilson X-31, Wilson 1200 GE and Wilson Reflex. The lengths and lies do vary some, but the loft numbers he has are:

2i 20*
3i 23*
4i 26*
5i 30*
6i 34*
7i 38*
8i 42*
9i 46*

The PW is 50* and the SW is 55*


HTH,

KM

[traderjason]

[attachment=2296067:the_haig_2.jpg]Thanks everyone for the info so far. The cubs came in last night, must not hve been hit very much. Oddly enough, they are almost identical size to my Titleist 710MB, even length which I found surprising. The CF-4 shafts are the stiff flex version with micro-step pattern in the mid section. Taking them for a spin this weekend, will report back. Here are the pictures.

[oldschoolrocker]

Very nice

[super20dan]

prima was a copy brand back in the 80,s. made decent quality copys of others mostly ping eye2 . sold at nevada bobs stores. i have a becu 8802 copy that i like a lot

[Ironmaster Oddities]

I think this model was produced about the same time as when
Ben Crenshaw was playing Haigs

[rex235]

[quote name='traderjason' timestamp='1403885769' post='9590597']
[attachment=2296067:the_haig_2.jpg]Thanks everyone for the info so far. The cubs came in last night, must not hve been hit very much. Oddly enough, they are almost identical size to my Titleist 710MB, even length which I found surprising. The CF-4 shafts are the stiff flex version with micro-step pattern in the mid section. Taking them for a spin this weekend, will report back. Here are the pictures.
[/quote]

Trader-

Thanks again for the photos-

These are indeed an underrated forged iron set, and you just need to find a LH Walter Hagen "Haig Ultra" Sand Iron. (Not very common) Or a Wilson "Fluid Feel" Staff SW from this period.

Good Luck.

Of course you recognize Louisville Golf's contract work for Prima Golf...."Oil Hardened" stamp, LH soleplate weight ports.
Unfortunately, these do not have the drill-thru hosel like your irons do, but each has a super grain pattern.

Chances of finding LH Wilson Staff or Walter Hagen Persimmon Woods from this period?

Not very good.

[bullrambler]

traderjason you found yourself some real gems... I believe that the Prima woods could have been made by Louisville golf. They made a lot of Persimmon drivers for a lot of companies, and remain as one of the last persimmon clubs standing.

[Wknd_Warrior]

My current bag is 1-SW the same set. The SW is rusty cause I tried to grind it into a useable fairway club...no dice. I bent a spare PW (51*) to 55 to get a more lofted wedge. 2i is currently in the closet, just haven't bothered to stick it back in after I broke my driver.

Made a personal best with this setup just a week or so ago .

OP, that set is beautiful. The long shafts surprise me. Maybe they were reshafted? I have no idea concerning the timeline of the controlled flex shafts. I did end up with a 6i with one of those in it though, so they might have been available OEM. Maybe they came longer that way?

I hated the CF shaft in the 6i I had, but I'm not very open minded when it comes to golf equipment lol.

[rex235]

Weekend-

Am not surprised at your grinding....

To me, "Haig Ultra" model Sand Irons/Wedges had larger, thicker "Contour" soles than their Wilson Staff cousins.

Is "TPW" the abbreviation for [b]T[/b]our [b]P[/b]layers [b]W[/b]edge?

[i]Haven't ever seen a LH TPW , but ....[/i]

[Wknd_Warrior]

the SW is a single purpose iron, that's for sure. Given the thin sole on the PW it's not surprising it was done this way. These days with the contoured sole on wedges they look like they can serve double duty and don't dig into the sand too much. Trying to hit my PW out of the sand is like trying to drive a 59 cadillac through 2 feet of mud.

I learned a lot about club soles though, at one point all my chips, and some full shots, were going crooked because of the uneven grind on the sole. Ultimately I screwed up the leading edge and just didn't like the way is lined up. Too bad, I was starting to get the hang of what I was doing, but it always would have been too heavy I think. It's still fine for the sand, probably better than it ever was actually. IMO It had way too much bounce OEM.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Would anyone know if the grooves on these are conforming? I know they aren't part of the modern grooves that were banned, but that doesn't necessarily mean the qualify under the new rules.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1406078342' post='9762971']
Would anyone know if the grooves on these are conforming? I know they aren't part of the modern grooves that were banned, but that doesn't necessarily mean the qualify under the new rules.
[/quote]

I'd like to know that, too. I tried researching it the other week but could not find a definitive answer. My take was: if they're not in the USGA database of conforming clubs then they are considered non-conforming by default...and there's precious few vintage irons in there because it seems they have to be submitted for testing/approval and I believe there is a fee involved. But I don't know for sure if all of this is correct.

I'm curious to know because if I were to enter a club championship or member-member etc, and actually play decently, could some crank get bent out of shape and have me disqualified?

It's not completely unlikely scenario. I know of one guy that avoids me since I beat him with my persimmons and blades a few months ago.

[Wknd_Warrior]

holy crap, I'd like to compete some day, that means I might have to change my clubs...

[rex235]

Contact the USGA via their website-www.usga.org,

Ask them specifically their ruling on conformity of irons, but remember that Local Rules will supersede USGA ones, so if your friend is on the Rules Committee....