Gun Question

[chickenpotpie]

Let me preface this by saying I have no issues with people owning or using guns (properly), but I had something happen to me today that left me a little unsettled. I am also not a gun owner.

 

Situation: I was walking out of a grocery store with diapers in one hand and a six pack of beer in the other (off topic, grocers know that these two items are correlated, so they usually locate them near each other and offer coupons for one or the other when you buy the other, but I digress), when walking into the store I see this guy. He was maybe late 50's, wearing a trucker cap, t-shirt and jorts. And before you ask, no, the jorts did not make me unsettled. They worked with his "look". Anyway, he had a gun holstered on his belt. Didn't get a good look, but it was a pistol of some sort. It left me with an uneasy feeling, and I found myself walking faster to my car. I realize people probably carry and conceal all around me, but I guess the actual act of seeing the gun made me wonder what he was up to. Was what he did against the law? Or am I just being paranoid?

[highergr0und]

That's open carry, and it's legal in Michigan. It's legal here in TN as well, and it is weird to see because so few people do it. I'm all for concealed carry and should have my permit shortly, but I do agree that it's a little weird when I see someone with a weapon plainly on their hip at a gas station or something. I think one of the issues, for me at least, is a lot of people who take advantage of the law look like the type of person I want to carry to protect myself from. Now they're probably nice people when it comes down to it.......

[highergr0und]

Oh, and yes, I've been on the diapers and beer run. At my Kroger, they're two aisles apart.

[chickenpotpie]

Interesting, did not know MI was open carry. And your assessment of who I'd be trying to defend myself against is pretty accurate here!

[JackpotJohnny]

I don't get why people feel the need to carry when you go places like the grocery store.

If Youre going to buy drugs, or a MacBook from someone on craigslist at 11pm, sure. But to get your Starbucks @7am on a Saturday. Just makes you look like a sissy

[theclubsfault]

Don't worry about it bud. You will know when you see the guy you want to run from.

Last time I saw an open carry guy I was in a Fry's (grocery) and he had a Dirty Harry size .357 mag. LOL Try to unholster that in time brother!

I used to carry everyday but don't anymore. Now I figure the likelihood of being in a situation where I need a gun immediately is really low. And, based on that assumption, if I do end up in that situation then the big guy has chosen it as my time.

Edit: I forgot to add I always used to CONCEAL and carry, not open. Concealing is just the kind thing to do. Keeps from offending any one offended by guns (while keeping them safe )

[southpaw72]

I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Just saying.

[esquireking]

That was open carry, it is legal in many different states. I am an advocate of concealed carry but to each their own. Carrying a gun doesn’t make you a p***y, it makes you responsible. When something bad happens to you you tend to call people with guns (the police). I would rather be responsible for my own safety than rely on a 911 call.

[Jim Clark]

[quote name='theclubsfault' timestamp='1407211043' post='9859703']
Don't worry about it bud. You will know when you see the guy you want to run from.

Last time I saw an open carry guy I was in a Fry's (grocery) and he had a Dirty Harry size .357 mag. LOL Try to unholster that in time brother!

[/quote]

Dirty Harry carried a .44 mag.

[theclubsfault]

[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1407269555' post='9864451']
[quote name='theclubsfault' timestamp='1407211043' post='9859703']
Don't worry about it bud. You will know when you see the guy you want to run from.

Last time I saw an open carry guy I was in a Fry's (grocery) and he had a Dirty Harry size .357 mag. LOL Try to unholster that in time brother!

[/quote]

Dirty Harry carried a .44 mag.
[/quote]

I stand corrected. That is what the guy had. Thing literally went from his hip to his knee. Impressive... Must of been compensating. Lol

[MtlJeff]

people always look at me funny when i walk into Wendy's with a belt of throwing knives like Danny Trejo in Desperado....but there's nothing illegal about it. And i mean, you never know when some punk is going to show up with a guitar case full of guns

[esquireking]

Some people feel the need to carry to protect themselves and others don't. Some of the comments here would lead you to conclude only psychos carry guns. You would be surprised at how many people you interact with daily that are armed.

[esquireking]

I personally carry concealed and carry for work as well but this is just an example of what I carry daily. Depending on what I'm doing for the day the load out may change but I always feel comfortable and am always in a state of readiness.

[RookieBlue7]

I carry concealed all the time. If I have the need for my firearm, I don't want the person to know if have it. The element of surprise is what I want. And I also don't want to make myself a target because if someone is committing a crime, they're going to want to take out the threats. The open carry person will be the first target. I conceal carry either of my Springfield XDs (9mm and .45) or a Glock 42.

Open carry isn't against the law, it's just stupid. People that don't like guns will be uncomfortable and it adds to the bad image guns get from the media, even though more than 1 million crimes are stopped annually by privately owned firearms.

[theclubsfault]

[quote name='esquireking' timestamp='1407296125' post='9867685']
I personally carry concealed and carry for work as well but this is just an example of what I carry daily. Depending on what I'm doing for the day the load out may change but I always feel comfortable and am always in a state of readiness.
[/quote]

No offense but I think your first load out picture is part of the problem with people hating gun owners in this country. They think we are loaded to the gills with weapons 24/7. You are carrying a glock, extra mag, and not one but two knives, and a flashlight. That freaks people out who are uncomfortable around guns. I know plenty of guys who had to carry everyday in the sandbox and could care less whether they are carrying back home. That kind of changed my perspective on carrying a bit.

Realistically the probability of needing a gun, much less the second mag, is so remote it is barely worth the effort of carrying a gun around. (I know, if it saves your life it is worth it. That is a tough one to argue). I would bet the likelihood that a person goes through two mags and gets down to hand-to-hand knife combat is even lower. I understand if you are going to a REALLY rough area, or live in one, your chances of needing it go up. Rough area or not, I still don't think the likelihood of getting down to knives is very high.

Don't get me wrong, I totally believe in the 2nd Amend. and have no serious qualms with you, your carrying guns or knives. It is your right to do so. I am right with you on the second amendment. I keep my glock within arms reach of me at night. However, during the day I have stopped carrying because I realized I am not living in the Gaza Strip here (except for south Chicago, those people need guns to walk to their neighbor's house). Anyway I don't know where else to go with this so enjoy those rambling gun thoughts... It is late.

[ATGANI]

As someone from Europe where the only guns we see are mostly in American movies.. (tongue in cheek here guys!) Im just curious... How do you carry all this gear? Is it with the holster under on your body or on a belt? I'm just trying to visualize how this goes down. My work often brings me to Houston, but I have never seen one of the guys is work with concealing a firearm during a meeting or so. Isn't it uncomfortable to have to carry it around all the time?

Just serious interested questions guys, I have no feelings whatsoever about your 2nd amendment, as I'm not American and I don't live in America and are far too uneducated about the gun situation in the states to have a well founded opinion about it. I can imagine that guns are a hobby in themselves (i find them interesting, that's for sure), but can also think it's a burden having to carry it around all the time?

And yeah, the pictures from Esquireking come across - for me - as Charles Bronson in Death Wish

[esquireking]

My load out is pretty standard to a lot of people that carry actually. I use my folding knife for tasks everyday, I use my flashlight daily more than you can imagine, the fixed blade is a defensive tool, and a spare magazine is for capacity as well as function. I have spent my entire life around weapons and during a military career watched numerous weapon malfunctions from ammunition or magazine failures, therefore I carry a second magazine. Not because I have the image that a civilian defensive shooting scenario would result in needing two mags, but because I would rather have a spare should a malfunction occur. Fixed blade knives are an excellent defensive tool because a pistol is not always ideal or possible to put into use. Whether a veteran feels a need to carry or not is pretty irrelevant though, I continue to work within the defense industry and work with military and police daily. There are cops that don't know diddly squat about guns, they merely carry it because they have to and then leave the gun in their locker at the end of the day. The same goes for military, plenty of people don't realize simply being a soldier, sailor, or marine does not make you an authority on weapons. Plenty of truly horrible things happen to people in everyday America at the hands of violent people. I have no intention of being a victim. That's why I carry and why I carry what I do.

[Wriggles]

One of my accounting clients was a local, small gun shop. It was truly unbelievable the huge volume of sales and trade ins in a month. One little shop, makes you think what sales are nationwide. No way any type of restrictive gun control will ever be passed. EVERYBODY has a gun. It's just too big an industry.

As far as carry permits, from what I understand, it's not too difficult to get one today. A relative carries his 380 everywhere in a fanny pack, even at home. He told me that he basically filled out an application and got his permit on the spot.

I recall in the 1970's, I bought a target 22 pistol. I visited my local sheriff's office to get a permit to carry it to a range. When I asked the "Deputy" about a permit, he gave me a lecture about keeping the weapon on the seat of the car, unloaded. He made it perfectly clear that I didn't need a permit. I didn't want to press the issue. He actually seemed put out that I even came in. I never did much target shooting; I was really uncomfortable with a pistol in plain sight. In the case of a police officer stopping my car, and seeing a pistol on the seat, I wouldn't blame him for drawing down on me.

One of the presidential candidates came to visit our area a few years ago. A nutcase was detained for carrying a holstered pistol around the place the candidate was speaking. Too much nonsense like this going on, with people exercising their right to bear arms.

I'm sure I could get a carry permit. For someone that travels at night on business, i.e. diamond broker, etc., I feel a permit is legitimate. I don't feel I need a pistol to and from the golf course, and other normal errands. I'd feel more comfortable if private citizens were NOT allowed to carry guns. Police officers should not have to deal with gun toting private citizens. Restrictive gun ownership would lessen a lot of the tragedies our society faces, school massacres and the like.

Of course, someone who wants to kill a bunch of people doesn't need a gun, he can find other ways. A golf club can kill people, so outlaw golf clubs, or baseball bats.

In today's society. there's really no answer. Archie Bunker, in a show, advocated giving everyone guns. Whoever is still around after the carnage, was in the right. It could come to that.

[esquireking]

You do realize crime is committed by criminals, therefore restricting my rights to carry and defend myself doesn't actually correlate to decreased crime. Narcotics are illegal mind you, yet they are still a international multi billion dollar industry and people commit crimes every single day to buy, sell, and use them. If someone is a criminal, well laws don't really seem to be a problem for them.

[Wriggles]

[quote name='esquireking' timestamp='1407322924' post='9868691']
You do realize crime is committed by criminals, therefore restricting my rights to carry and defend myself doesn't actually correlate to decreased crime. Narcotics are illegal mind you, yet they are still a international multi billion dollar industry and people commit crimes every single day to buy, sell, and use them. If someone is a criminal, well laws don't really seem to be a problem for them.
[/quote]

You took the words out of my mouth. I finished my comment without it, I'm getting ready to leave for golf.

That's why I finished with "there's no answer."

[RookieBlue7]

Not to mention restricting freedom people bled and died to protect. Carrying puts no one at risk without the person that is carrying being mentally unstable and having an intent to cause harm. A gun isn't jumping out of a holster or out of anyone's pocket and shooting anyone on it's own. Target said firearms aren't welcome, I've carried mine in there at least a dozen times since then and it's yet to jump out of the IWB holster and shoot anyone on it's own. Guns aren't the reason for crimes with guns. People with issues having a gun causes crime, but It's the person, not the gun that does the damage. A gun is a tool, just like a golf club is a tool. They do nothing without the person connected to them causing it. And that, kids, is how I make it stay on topic about golf as well lol.

[Mulligan26]

I carry everyday,concealed. I understand that not everyone is as comfortable with the sight of a firearm as me so I don't openly carry it. Unless I'm driving to my shooting spot.

[rabbit111]

You guys are kidding right? Here in Australia since we tightened our gun laws not once has there been a massacre. I understand how you say it's your right but if it's everyone's right to feel safe without carrying, wouldn't that be better? The harder it is to get one the safer the rest feel. Get over yourself the fact that you aren't the bad person cause it is too easy for that bad person to carry a firearm.

[JackpotJohnny]

In order to do things like get get a job, or adopt a child, you typically have to take some type of personality or character assessment to make sure you are the right fit. I think that's a good idea for guns as well.

Because the truth is, that not everyone that wants a gun should have a gun.

The second amendment was adopted during a time that there weren't some of the things we have going on today.
Mental illness, narcotics, prescription drug abuse, hormones, racial tension, terrorism, pop culture, bullying, main stream media, sensationalizatipn of criminal behavior...

Saying that everyone deserves to own and carry a gun because, a statement on a 225 year old piece of paper with no connection to today's American society says so is irresponsible.

[Sir_Shank-A-Lot]

Of course!! There wasn't any crime, mental illness, opium addiction, bullying or sensational journalism in the 18th century; everyone was a magically pious Quaker...

Australia has extremely regulated firearms laws yet they have a higher murder rate than several European countries with less restrictive firearms laws. But, there are less mass murders, so it's great, eh mate?

The 2nd amendment is intended to allow people to protect themselves from other people and their government. The government part is due to the persecutions and political environment of England during the time before our independence. The 2nd amendment guarantees that the government can not disarm the people to ensure a defenseless populace.

And yes, I know the obvious place you're going to take this argument; No, I do not expect to grab my gun and go fight the US Army. But a threat or possibility of action is often a better deterrent than the action itself... How often do you have to threaten your kids with punishment vs actually having to do something. (Plus, if things got that far out of whack, I'll bet that a far amount of our soldiers would be on the citizen's side vs the gov't.)

The SC has upheld that it may be regulated and hence the prohibitions against felons and the mentally ill owning firearms. The problem is that the federal government has provided minimal funding or legislative guidance for enacting these prohibitions. There is currently no national standards for reporting of mental illness by health professionals or others and the only way that box on the form gets flagged is due to judicial action, which is a very high bar.

However, as our government is so fond of doing, they would rather pass new laws to restrict our rights than cut funding to entitlement programs and military spending to allow sufficient use of the laws we already have.

[SuperTwi]

[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1407338545' post='9870487']
In order to do things like get get a job, or adopt a child, you typically have to take some type of personality or character assessment to make sure you are the right fit. I think that's a good idea for guns as well.

Because the truth is, that not everyone that wants a gun should have a gun.

The second amendment was adopted during a time that there weren't some of the things we have going on today.
Mental illness, narcotics, prescription drug abuse, hormones, racial tension, terrorism, pop culture, bullying, main stream media, sensationalizatipn of criminal behavior...

Saying that everyone deserves to own and carry a gun because, a statement on a 225 year old piece of paper with no connection to today's American society says so is irresponsible.
[/quote]

I completely agree. We're following rules written over 200 years ago. And 200 years later we are not living that life those people lived. We have exponentially grown in population and have a ton of problems as individuals. And people say oh it's my right blah blah..no it is not your right. We need to seriously change our country and the way we think.

I was having the gun debate with gf recently and I am a firm believer that people do kill people......with GUNS. I'm specifically talking about the mass shootings in schools and public places etc.. she says well if you take away the guns and make it impossible or really hard to get they'll just find another resource like bombs.

Tell me why kids and crazies in general are not using bombs the majority of time for mass killings when they have clear access to those types of tools right now and can build a bomb that can do mass damage?

Because they're USING GUNS. It's plain and simple and clear as day.

They're not using rocks, they're rarely using bombs, they're not using knives, they're not using poisons, they're not using anything else in this country, but guns.

And anyone who thinks that eliminating the resource one by one and or making it so friggin hard for anyone to make a gun or build a gun wouldn't be beneficial to us as a society as a whole is an idiot.

[fufu]

I open carry from time to time...usually when I'm going fishing, hiking, outdoors... I never open carry in the grocery store, mall, etc. I CC as often as I can.....I work on a federal installation where carry of any kind is prohibited. When I get home, I change, grab the weapon from the safe and go about my day.

[esquireking]

You are aware in China every year there are massive stabbing rampages...their gun laws are extremely stringent so people have chosen edged weapons.

http://news.sky.com/story/1219600/china-stabbing-33-killed-in-station-massacre

For example....Bad people do bad things with what they can, they will still continue to do bad things even if a: the act is illegal b: the implement they choose is illegal. Restricting gun rights only means that I am now more susceptible to becoming a statistic.

[sefus12]

[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1407336656' post='9870243']
You guys are kidding right? Here in Australia since we tightened our gun laws not once has there been a massacre. I understand how you say it's your right but if it's everyone's right to feel safe without carrying, wouldn't that be better? The harder it is to get one the safer the rest feel. Get over yourself the fact that you aren't the bad person cause it is too easy for that bad person to carry a firearm.
[/quote]

That's the whole problem with the "kumbaya" argument. Bad people exist. Bad people break the law. Bad people don't care about things like gun control. No measure of gun control will stop bad people. And if they can't find a gun? They'll simply use something else.

Until all bad people are gone from this world (it will never happen), there's always a need for good people to be able to protect themselves. .

[hoganfan924]

I do volunteer work with a large group of people who open carry here in Michigan. I can understand how it makes some people uncomfortable. However, the same people who are uncomfortable are often quite comforted to be in the presence of an armed cop or even a private security guard.
When you actually study the facts, you'll find that you're much less likely to be shot by a privately and legally armed citizen that is responding to a crime in progress than by a cop, as just one example (about 5x less per a study by USA Today several years ago). When you realize that cops have qualified immunity while on duty, it makes sense that they might use less discretion than a private citizen responding to the same scenario.
Most folks are also under the mistaken impression that cops receive tons if firearms training, have superior equipment and are better shooters. Proficiency, equipment and training vary wildly across the country. One example, NYCPD Glocks have a 12 lb. trigger pull and officers don't get much range time.