No new acquistions...?

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

So after picking up those lovely old Mizuno MP5s I posted a couple of pages ago, I found these up for sale and had to go for them. I *think* they are the same as the TP Originals that were on sale in Europe and were popular on the European Tour.

 

The shafts are short (PW just under 35") and DGR400, which is not a good fit for me, so they'll probably be getting new shafts before I play them.

I also have another set of Originals, which are restamped MS-11s (Similar or identical to MS/MP-9s in the US and TP-11s in Europe), and I've seen completely different sets stamped with "Original", so it makes me wonder what the "Original" actually meant. I want to believe it was for prototypes, but might just have been a custom order thing.

The MS-11 Originals I have (I played these last weekend. Very tasty irons).

[NRJyzr]

Catchy, your set look to me more like the MS11/MP11.  I see a slight difference between those and the MS-9/MP-9/TP-11.

(with apologies for being "that guy")

 

Sharing pics from Ironfinder below

 

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

9 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

Catchy, your set look to me more like the MS11/MP11.  I see a slight difference between those and the MS-9/MP-9/TP-11.

(with apologies for being "that guy")

 

Sharing pics from Ironfinder below

 

 

 

So, just to be clear, I get really confused by the different Mizuno labelling in this period of their history.

The Mizuno Pro Originals I just took possession of and posted first in the above post are, I think, close to the TP Originals.

The last picture I posted was of a different Mizuno Pro Original I have, which is REALLY similar (identical except for finish) to the MS-11s, which I also have a set of. In other words, I've two sets stamped "Mizuno Pro Original" which are completely different irons, and the last picture was of the Originals which I think are identical to the MS-11s except for finish (satin finish on the Originals).

 

Now that MP-9 you posted doesn't look like either of mine, which is puzzling. My newer Mizuno Originals have a nice rounded muscle, which those MP-9s don't seem to have. The MP-11s in your post are like my MS-11s and Mizuno Pro Originals that I bought earlier this year (last pic in my above post). The shaved topline appears to be the same.

 

That said, I've seen MS Originals which look like TP-15s. Should have bought them...

[NRJyzr]

36 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

So, just to be clear, I get really confused by the different Mizuno labelling in this period of their history.

The Mizuno Pro Originals I just took possession of and posted first in the above post are, I think, close to the TP Originals.

The last picture I posted was of a different Mizuno Pro Original I have, which is REALLY similar (identical except for finish) to the MS-11s, which I also have a set of. In other words, I've two sets stamped "Mizuno Pro Original" which are completely different irons, and the last picture was of the Originals which I think are identical to the MS-11s except for finish (satin finish on the Originals).

 

Now that MP-9 you posted doesn't look like either of mine, which is puzzling. My newer Mizuno Originals have a nice rounded muscle, which those MP-9s don't seem to have. The MP-11s in your post are like my MS-11s and Mizuno Pro Originals that I bought earlier this year (last pic in my above post). The shaved topline appears to be the same.

 

That said, I've seen MS Originals which look like TP-15s. Should have bought them...

 

Mizuno are confusing in general.  🙂

 

There appear to be two different sets of MS-5 irons, one of them looking similar to the Mizuno Pro Originals you shared a few posts up, and another set that are a reverse muscle, ala the MacGregor 985/915/925, or the MacCobra Norman Signature Grinds.  

 

I had only seen the reverse muscle set, until randomly surfing ebay one day for MS-4's and coming across the "normal" muscle back MS-5s.

 

And then there's the change in numbering from MS and MP lines, to the TP line in Europe.  The MS-7 is the TP-9, the MS-9 is the TP-11, and so on.

 

We need Peter Alliss to provide guiding commentary...

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by NRJyzr

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

4 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Mizuno are confusing in general.  🙂

 

There appear to be two different sets of MS-5 irons, one of them looking similar to the Mizuno Pro Originals you shared a few posts up, and another set that are a reverse muscle, ala the MacGregor 985/915/925, or the MacCobra Norman Signature Grinds.  

 

I had only seen the reverse muscle set, until randomly surfing ebay one day for MS-4's and coming across the "normal" muscle back MS-5s.

 

And then there's the change in numbering from MS and MP lines, to the TP line in Europe.  The MS-7 is the TP-9, the MS-9 is the TP-11, and so on.

 

Indeed. Now, with the MS-5, the reverse muscle is probably the Japanese model. Not sure it ever got released elsewhere, but the muscle seems to change depending on the loft of the iron. I don't have a set so I can't be sure, but I think the short irons have the reverse muscle. The MS-3 might also be reverse muscle, but I don't want to buy either set to confirm. Well, I do, but one or two people in this house might have a problem with that, if you know what I mean and I think you do....

 

Now, those MP5s I posted are, I am pretty sure, TP5s with different stampings. And the new Originals I just took hold are, I am willing to be, from the same blank but with a different grind. The muscle pad is different, and, interestingly, I think the Originals have a little less offset. However, the MP5s are away getting extended at the moment so I don't have them to hand to compare.

 

I am also considering what to do with the new MS Originals. Somewhat tempted to push the boat out and reshaft with carbon so I can continue playing them for years to come.

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

I'm thinking of focusing on a specific mission this winter:  Find a set of mid-90's Big Berthas.  Are those generally as popular as Ping Eyes and/or Zings, or will they be more difficult to find?

[dcopp7]

Set of TA 915's, JN series Nicklaus lob wedge, Bristol Tropicana 8802 clone, Haig Ultra dual wedge

[Therty]

I was directed here from another thread.

 

i picked up what I think is a full set of 1960 dyna-powered Wilson Blades, 2-SW (attached).  I will have some questions, #1 being - does anyone know if this is a threaded hosel model?
 

i also copped an Otey Crisman 16HB Hickory putter. Any tips to freshen the leather grip? (Its in good condition already!)

 

finally I got a Wilson 4300 1w. Can someone look at the crack in the ferrule - something to be concerned with? Or just cracked plastic? Would love to put this in play… thanks!

 

 

[Swingingk]

Man that is one nice setup.  Great stuff.  The irons will almost certainly be playable as-is but wooden woods usually need a bit of lovin' before they can be used reliably.  Don't worry about the plastic ferrule - they're just cosmetic.  As a confirmed member of the WFFL (World Federation of Ferrule Lovers 😆) I must say these particular examples are quite lovely.  

As to whether or not the irons have the threaded hosel I do not know for certain although I suspect they might.  That threaded connection can be a bear to undo and I wouldn't recommend it unless your club guy has experience with them.  In my opinion you should try the clubs out first and see if you get along with them.  You might find you really like them as they are.

 

 

[Therty]

21 minutes ago, Swingingk said:

Man that is one nice setup.  Great stuff.  The irons will almost certainly be playable as-is but wooden woods usually need a bit of lovin' before they can be used reliably.  Don't worry about the plastic ferrule - they're just cosmetic.  As a confirmed member of the WFFL (World Federation of Ferrule Lovers 😆) I must say these particular examples are quite lovely.  

As to whether or not the irons have the threaded hosel I do not know for certain although I suspect they might.  That threaded connection can be a bear to undo and I wouldn't recommend it unless your club guy has experience with them.  In my opinion you should try the clubs out first and see if you get along with them.  You might find you really like them as they are.

 

 

Swingingk I read many pages of your thread on these, thanks for chiming in. 
i might toss them as a half set and see how they play as-is, good rec.

Any Idea what the original grips from 1960 looked like?

[Swingingk]

35 minutes ago, Therty said:

Swingingk I read many pages of your thread on these, thanks for chiming in. 
i might toss them as a half set and see how they play as-is, good rec.

Any Idea what the original grips from 1960 looked like?

Sorry but I don't know what the grips would have looked like.  Epay is a good resource for that type of thing though, just search for Wilson irons of that era and check out the pics.  That being said I doubt you'll find anything new that matches although some of the tour wraps do look nice on vintage clubs.  If you intend on playing them then for sure I'd suggest replacing the old ones.  Your current favorite grip should be just fine and look acceptable as long as it's mostly black.

If this is your first foray into the world of vintage golf then you're definitely on the right path.  If you're used to blades then I think you'll find these surprisingly playable.  Old blades aren't that much different than modern blades - it's mostly the woods that make playing with vintage equipment interesting and unique.  Good luck! 

[cold_war_era_golfer]

3 hours ago, Therty said:

I was directed here from another thread.

 

i picked up what I think is a full set of 1960 dyna-powered Wilson Blades, 2-SW (attached).  I will have some questions, #1 being - does anyone know if this is a threaded hosel model?
 

i also copped an Otey Crisman 16HB Hickory putter. Any tips to freshen the leather grip? (Its in good condition already!)

 

finally I got a Wilson 4300 1w. Can someone look at the crack in the ferrule - something to be concerned with? Or just cracked plastic? Would love to put this in play… thanks!

 

 

Ahh the 1960-61 Dyna-powered.

I currently have 5 sets of them. Only 1 complete.  But I do have 3 1irs which I’m pretty proud of.  Here’s one of my staff bags filled with 3 sets of them currently in the warm basement for the winter.

Also shots of the grips.  All stock.  1

rubber, 1 leather, 1 leather with reminder shape. If you ever want to sell those please let me know.

 

 

[Therty]

24 minutes ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Ahh the 1960-61 Dyna-powered.

I currently have 5 sets of them. Only 1 complete.  But I do have 3 1irs which I’m pretty proud of.  Here’s one of my staff bags filled with 3 sets of them currently in the warm basement for the winter.

Also shots of the grips.  All stock.  1

rubber, 1 leather, 1 leather with reminder shape. If you ever want to sell those please let me know.

 

 

Great now I get to start hunting for 1 irons…

[MizunoMayhem]

17 hours ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Ahh the 1960-61 Dyna-powered.

I currently have 5 sets of them. Only 1 complete.  But I do have 3 1irs which I’m pretty proud of.  Here’s one of my staff bags filled with 3 sets of them currently in the warm basement for the winter.

Also shots of the grips.  All stock.  1

rubber, 1 leather, 1 leather with reminder shape. If you ever want to sell those please let me know.

 

 

Wow, not sure I can recall seeing a vintage all white grip. Besides a 60-61 Staff, have you seen these grips on any other vintage clubs?

 

MizunoMayhem

Edited November 29, 2021 by MizunoMayhem

[Therty]

Put the Wilson 4300 driver and 4/6/8/PW in my bag and played 9. Most fun I’ve had on the golf course in quite some time. +4 thru 9 helps too. 
 

edit: so after I had so much fun today I did this:

Edited November 30, 2021 by Therty

[Jiggered]

10 hours ago, MizunoMayhem said:

Wow, not sure I can recall seeing a vintage all white grip. Besides a 60-61 Staff, have you seen these grips on any other vintage clubs?

 

MizunoMayhem

 

In the UK white grips come up on vintage clubs every now and then, usually by Avon.

A couple of examples below.

 

On a 1960s driver.

 

And I also have a set of George Nicoll Henry Cotton irons from the late 1950s with an equally degraded set of white grips but I can't find a picture of those.

Whether or not they were the original grips fitted to the clubs or a replacement set I'm not sure but if a replacement they were certainly done a long time ago!

 

Advert from 1961.

 

[cold_war_era_golfer]

On 11/29/2021 at 4:32 PM, MizunoMayhem said:

Wow, not sure I can recall seeing a vintage all white grip. Besides a 60-61 Staff, have you seen these grips on any other vintage clubs?

 

MizunoMayhem

It must have been a very 1961 “thing” as MacGregor had a VERY similar grip.  But Wilson gets points for the stylish butt caps.

[cohee]

Took these new acquisitions out to the practice area today. That R90 weighs about 20 pounds. And the topline of that niblick weighs about 15. Both of them work pretty well, but you have to completely master them, no getting flippy with it....

[hammergolf]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:44 PM, Therty said:

Put the Wilson 4300 driver and 4/6/8/PW in my bag and played 9. Most fun I’ve had on the golf course in quite some time. +4 thru 9 helps too. 
 

edit: so after I had so much fun today I did this:

BEAUTIFUL 588….. 

[Therty]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

BEAUTIFUL 588….. 

do you know anything about it? I couldn't find much in my searching. 
i do know it IS beautiful, thanks 😀

[jh19]

I’ve gone a little over board! 
 

 

[hammergolf]

19 hours ago, Therty said:

do you know anything about it? I couldn't find much in my searching. 
i do know it IS beautiful, thanks 😀

It was one of several models that Roger Cleveland designed when he owned Cleveland Classics. The 588 was released in 1988 but there were many models and they were all pieces of art. I played a TC15 when I was in college. The RC69, RC75, RC85, and DG43 were played on tour by the best players in the world. Here’s a link for more info on CC persimmon drivers.

 

 

[cohee]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:29 AM, Stephen8802 said:

Let me be the third. If you want my pyratone Ironmaster, you will have to negotiate with my kids when they settle my estate. There are five or so putters that are above and beyond special, and an Armour with a green shaft is on that list. Part of it is the history, part the shaft, and part that the putter just plain works.

 

I just picked up a green-shafted Ironmaster, and I think I'm in love. But I wonder what the other four beyond special putters would be? 8802? Ping Anser 2? Bullseye? Zebra (just kidding)?

Edited December 4, 2021 by cohee

[raggal62]

43 minutes ago, cohee said:

 

I just picked up a green-shafted Ironmaster, and I think I'm in love. But I wonder what the other four beyond special putters would be? 8802? Ping Anser 2? Bullseye? Zebra (just kidding)?

Bristol Sportsman has to rank pretty high.

[Stephen8802]

 

I would think so also and it’s at the top of most lists. I’d go Geo. Low Wizard 600, Designed By Arnold Palmer, 1964 8802 (even though those are the same putter, it’s good enough to be on the list twice), and a Scottsdale Anser. There are probably a few more people would put on the list like the Ping 1-A or a Bullseye, and that’s all good…any of the 10 putters in the top 5 work for me.

 

That doesn’t mean those are those are the most effective putters you can have, my Bobby Grace Fat Man rolls them in the best of all, but putting with a ‘64 8802 is as pure as golf can get.

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, cohee said:

 

I just picked up a green-shafted Ironmaster, and I think I'm in love. But I wonder what the other four beyond special putters would be? 8802? Ping Anser 2? Bullseye? Zebra (just kidding)?

I am generally with you. When it comes to putters, we are talking designs that "just work" and in that sense the Ironmasters and 8802's are up there as too are the Golden Goose designs including Bullseye. I am not sure which model of Ping I would suggest but there is no doubt that Ping moved the needle in terms of effective design.

You may have been slightly tongue in cheek but I must make a case for the Zebra which was a revolutionary design well ahead of its time, face balanced and adjustable weighting, it is the grandfather of many of the designs today and in my opinion can still give the kids a good run for their money. It ranks high in my list and keeps a place in my bag.

[cohee]

I can't argue with that, Zebras were indeed way ahead of their time. I could never putt worth a damn with them, but that's on me. I read somewhere (here?) that people like to fill up the inside with hot glue or something to make them more solid.

[RobotDoctor]

23 hours ago, jh19 said:

I’ve gone a little over board! 
 

 

 

Nah, you haven't.  😉

 

[jh19]

Give me that Wood Bros so I can catchup!!!

[RobotDoctor]

8 minutes ago, jh19 said:

Give me that Wood Bros so I can catchup!!!

😂🤣😂