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SkyTrak LM.... No love?


sybez

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[quote name='PowerPlayer' timestamp='1414564737' post='10366625']
I tried this unit at the China PGA Show back in March. The company also made some simulator called Xswing Golf ([url="http://xswinggolf.com/skytrak.html"]http://xswinggolf.com/skytrak.html[/url]). The device itself showed great potential, but the software was extremely buggy. I couldn't realistically tell the difference between this device and the ES14. If I remember correctly, they were thinking about a $3K price point as they were firm believers that they had a fantastic product that could directly compete with Trackman, et al.

If they solved the software issues - and that's a big if - this could be a suitable replacement for a GC2. More so at the $1.5K intro price. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you could get your hands on this device at a sub-$1K price point on the 2nd hand market after the winter.

There's some good info about the device here: [url="http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?78354-NEW-SkyTrak-Launch-Monitor."]http://forum.ottawag...Launch-Monitor.[/url] I'd keep an eye on it before pulling the trigger, IMHO.
[/quote]

Did you really mean the ES14?

I thought that was just a double doppler radar system which measures club head and ball speed and uses algorithms to determine everything else. It doesn't do side spin, either.

BHB1

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I asked the question today to a live chat rep about the game improvement package and whether or not you have to pay for this every year. Here is the chat session.

[b]Marc Gerardo:[/b] Hello! Thank you for chatting. One moment while I review your pre-chat survey.
[b]me:[/b] HI, I am looking at purchasing a skytrak but i have a question on the subscriptions. Is this a one time purchase for the game improvement package or do you have to pay this yearly?
[b]Marc Gerardo:[/b] This is the link sir for you to check all the info about the SkyTrak
[b]Marc Gerardo:[/b] [url="https://shop.skygolf.com/c-205-shop-skytrak.aspx"]https://shop.skygolf.com/c-205-shop-skytrak.aspx[/url]
[b]Marc Gerardo:[/b] that membership will last a year sir
[b]me:[/b] I am specifically asking about the game improvement package. Do you have to pay every year to use this?
[b]Marc Gerardo:[/b] yes

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[quote name='eyewipe' timestamp='1415081735' post='10394533']
Frustrating that there is no UK info for this yet!!

As for which iPads it will work on - you can download the app right now and it seems to work for IOS 6 and on.
[/quote]

Indeed, frustrating that Europe seems to be a forgotten land as far as SkyTrak is concerned!

Yes, I downloaded the app some days ago and it runs OK on my iPad4. Bubba22 (Ottawa Golf Forum) has told me he has been a tester for some time and runs the SkyTrak app on his iPad4 without any problems. He reckoned it was just sloppy marketing that SkyTrak say it only runs on iPad Air, rather than plans for a more demanding application/features. Looks about Par for the course with that launch!

I could not register for the app without the physical SkyTrak, but playing with the different screens seemed to show that the Tutorial module wasn't activated yet/not finished. Also that the wind direction, strength, course conditions (soft, firm & hard) and humidity can be set (even though the SkyTrak subscription website says these are only available via the US$99/annum subscription), but nothing for altitude and temperature. Maybe the latter will be automatic via a GPS chip in the SkyTrak hardware or the GPS in the iPad.

No word on European pricing or launch discounts (in my dreams!!) either. The SkyTrak chat rep didn't even know what a CE Mark/Certification was, let alone actually having completed the CE certification for Europe.

I guess this is a small company and resources are limited in production, etc. Maybe a competitor will bring an alternative device to market before SkyTrak get around to servicing the European market.

BHB1

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Sky Golf must just be piggybacking on the name. Doesn't look like they have any affiliation with the manufacturer. It's designed by a startup company in Singapore and manufactured in Malaysia.

Getting CE and other labeling is not a trivial matter anymore. It takes much more money than you think and there seems to be some politics in it now that puts companies foreign to the labeling area at a disadvantage.

I used one a couple days ago in Japan. Yonex was using it at a demo day. Here's the back of it:

[attachment=2484711:launch1.JPG]

Here's the display:

[attachment=2484713:launch2.JPG]

The display shows:
total yardage
carry
ball speed
launch angle
head speed (estimated from ball speed)
back sin
side spin
spin direction

It's OK, but certainly not worth $2,000.

capitalization eliminated as a cost reduction

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[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1415092798' post='10394679']
Sky Golf must just be piggybacking on the name. Doesn't look like they have any affiliation with the manufacturer. It's designed by a startup company in Singapore and manufactured in Malaysia.

Getting CE and other labeling is not a trivial matter anymore. It takes much more money than you think and there seems to be some politics in it now that puts companies foreign to the labeling area at a disadvantage.

I used one a couple days ago in Japan. Yonex was using it at a demo day. Here's the back of it:

[attachment=2484711:launch1.JPG]

Here's the display:

[attachment=2484713:launch2.JPG]

The display shows:
total yardage
carry
ball speed
launch angle
head speed (estimated from ball speed)
back sin
side spin
spin direction

It's OK, but certainly not worth $2,000.
[/quote]

The CE marketing could be being used like the SCART leads on TVs used to - to limit imports of Far Eastern TVs which didn't initially have the SCART fitting! Not good news for European potential customers.

One can only hope they include an option to use metres for the carry & total distance for European golf courses. Didn't see that in the app when I looked. Not a lot of work to include I guess.

Bubba22 did hint that the developer (meaning the one in Singapore) had written a PC app for the device, but this is not SkyTrak and I don't know if SkyTrak are interested in providing a PC version. They seem to do their programming in-house, so I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for a SkyTrak Android app.

I wonder if this same device (hardware) will appear under another brand name elsewhere? Your picture shows Yonex ( thought they made Badminton & Tennis Racquets but must do other sports too). Strange if they don't have an exclusivity agreement with SkyTrak and if not, what brand will market in Europe?

As for costs, I guess that depends on the accuracy. It seems to use technology similar to the much more expensive GC2 and I guess by the time it gets to Europe they will want Euro 2k for the privilege of owning one. Not seen any proper pre launch reviews, which in itself is strange.

BHB1

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The Yonex sticker is just a property sticker for the ipad, not a branding. Yonex is a major golf manufacturer in Asia.

The developer in Singapore is the owner of the product, but they don't make it, it's farmed out for assembly to a factory in Malaysia. That's pretty standard for most companies now.

Sky trak is just a distributor for the product.

capitalization eliminated as a cost reduction

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Hi and thanks for the clarification. That is beginning to make more sense.

So. SkyGolf, or a sub division of them, are the distributor for the SkyTrak in North America. The product is named SkyTrak by original Singapore manufacturer/design company?

Do you know who the actual manufacturer/startup company in Singapore is and whether it is possible to contact them with a view to determining their plans for European distribution? It is not very clear what SkyGolf's intentions/time scale for the SkyTrak in Europe is.

I thought the SkyTrak was being launched already or shortly, in Japan, but now I am wondering who the supplier/distributor is, if SkyGolf are seemingly preoccupied with the North American market at present. The sticker on the device in your photo says distributed by GPro Co Ltd.

Google shows GPro as a Japanese company (very diverse) and who do list golf simulation as one of their interests, but no Sky Trak. Rapsodo may be the original manufacturer/designer as they refer to Sky Trak as their distribution partner in the USA.

BHB1

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I don't think Sky Golf has any affiliation with the owner. The word sky is in both, but I think Sky Golf is simply willing to sell it through their sales network and site and people will think they are the original company.

It has been out in Japan for maybe a year through a distributor.

I'm not too sure about the status or size of the start up. The may or may not have even designed the product themselves. In today's start up world, some are simply virtual companies who have hired others to do the hardware and software design work or licensed the algorithms.

To me, and this is only my guess based on the lack of information about the company, it is very small (just a couple of people) and does not have the resources to market this by themselves.

The original maker is here: [url="http://rapsodo.com/?page_id=20"]http://rapsodo.com/[/url]

capitalization eliminated as a cost reduction

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[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1415104306' post='10394871']
I don't think Sky Golf has any affiliation with the owner. The word sky is in both, but I think Sky Golf is simply willing to sell it through their sales network and site and people will think they are the original company.

It has been out in Japan for maybe a year through a distributor.

I'm not too sure about the status or size of the start up. The may or may not have even designed the product themselves. In today's start up world, some are simply virtual companies who have hired others to do the hardware and software design work or licensed the algorithms.

To me, and this is only my guess based on the lack of information about the company, it is very small (just a couple of people) and does not have the resources to market this by themselves.

The original maker is here: [url="http://rapsodo.com/?page_id=20"]http://rapsodo.com/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks. I didn't realise it had been out for so long.

Rapsodo don't list a contact eMail or Phone number. Their LinkedIn entry seems to suggest 15-50 employees.

I have eMailed GPro to ask if they know of a European Distributor or indeed plan to market there. Doesn't sound as if the American outfit are actively planning on marketing into Europe, but anything is possible I guess!

BHB1

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been following the Skytrak developments and I'm glad someone is coming out with new stuff to drive this market space.
I've gone from the Zelocity Purelaunch which was crap to a Vector Pro2 which was great but didn't have the microlense upgrade to the Flightscope Kudu which I loved.
Since moving I lost the garage space so I went back to a Vector Pro2 with the micro lense upgrade.

I think if you're just going to hit indoors the Vector Pro2 with micro lense is the way to go because you only need to set it up once and it's less than $1k. I've had the opportunity to compare it to the Flightscope side by side and it's plenty accurate.

The Skytrak looks interesting. I'm going to wait a few more years to see where Skytrak ends up. It's going to be buggy for the first year or so and I don't want to buy an apple air just to use this thing. I think they've dropped the ball here. It wouldn't be hard to develop something for the Android devices. From reading other forums it looks like the launch angle accuracy is in question. I think they will eventually work it out over time. Acquiring accurate ball flight models take time and experience. Something that Accusport, TM, and Flightscope has already fine tuned.

I hope in about a year or two their prices will drop to 1k which is more affordable for most.

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Also really good information here http://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/skytrak/212-skytrak-launch-monitor

This was some of the information given out on 11/10/14

[color=#252C2F][size=3]Hello all,[/size][/color]

[color=#252C2F][size=3]We’ve been paying close attention to this thread for quite a while now and now that the press release has been issued, we can start to dispel some myths and answer some of your questions. I’ve combed through the entire thread again and I hope I’ve gotten everything:[/size][/color][list]
[*]Simulation Partners – This is undeniably the elephant in the room. Without sharing too much information, it is safe to say at this time that our SDK is not open source. However, if you can hold tight for a few more weeks, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at the announcement of who we are partnering with in the golf simulation world.
[*]Fake Testimonials – Yep, we goofed. When the site launched, the team mistakenly used testmonials from the website mockup. These were before the unit even left our doors for testing, but were placeholders to get the feel of the site right. We were unaware of the issue until another forum moderator alerted us. The quotes were removed immediately and replaced with the actual testimonials. Stay tuned over the next few weeks and you’ll get to see exactly where the testmonials came from.
[*]Platforms – Products are typically launched on a single platform and expanded from there. Being a consumer-focused device, we opted for iOS. Since the range is in 3D, and the shot analysis takes some processing power, we had to limit to the iPad Air and iPad Mini2 (with retina). Fortunately, newer models of each were just released from Apple, so we doubled our compatibility. Please keep in mind that this is only for launch. We are currently looking to deploy on PC, Android, and possibly even earlier iPad models.
[*]Can’t connect to home network at the same time on iPad– You can absolutely do this!
[*]App needs work – The app in the store was simply to pass initial Apple approval testing and is extremely outdated. The real app will be available in the App store when units are shipped later this month.
[/list]

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Can you point me to this discussion? I'm on some of the other forums and I don't recall seeing the LA as an issue. Most issues/complaints are due to currently having the apple only option, no sim play yet, soft chipping and no putting. I believe they have corrected the issue with soft chips, but it remains to be seen until someone can actually verify this.
[quote name='jacksonlui' timestamp='1415900617' post='10441353']


From reading other forums it looks like the launch angle accuracy is in question.

st.
[/quote]

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tigersweet posted a link to a 33 page discussion with tons of information from two beta testers where they had mentioned this. some people want the latest and greatest regardless of bugs and others always wait a year or two to get a more refined product. it's really up to you. there are so many products out there at every price point, some more accurate than others. realy depends if you're looking into a simulator, club head data, and/or ball data. the more you want the more it will cost. my swingbyte broke but their customer service is excellent and they're replacing it. I think it's adequate for hacks like me. for ball data i've owned quite a few LM and for the price it's hard to beat the vector for home use, especially at the price point nowadays. if money was not a factor, I'd definitely get a GC2+HMT and I'd get Tiger to caddy for me!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Little update for anyone who cares...

On the other forums, it appears there is some delays with launch due to manuals/app approval/quantity of orders.

Also, the customer service agents with Skygolf are not aware/trained on the release of Skytrak and is really making a lot of the pre-order customers frustrated when they call and the agent says "What's Skytrak?". lol

Oh well, product launches are usually disasters.

Should be a good product after the bugs get ironed out, and a great product if they partner with a sim software for the right price.

Here is the first non-beta tester user review (just 1 shot): https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyopeywojpa6skx/GOPR0370.MP4?dl=0

There is a 4 sec delay from hitting to simulation, but delay is said to be software based and therefore able to be shortened with future updates and (hopefully) eliminated with the PC software.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

I have hit a few shots this Saturday 7 February on Trackman and Skytrak.

[u]Process: [/u]
6 shots on the Trackman Combine test with an hybrid 5
3 shots on SkyTrak half an hour after the shots on Trackman with the same club

Here are the results:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aD2HXhHHojSk6Nq3A8W3rEn6p_AaJMZ552_PKy3TpJo/edit?usp=sheets_home#gid=0

Based on the results, it seems that the SkyTrak overestimates most of the data: swing speed, ball speed, carry, spin and launch angle.
The gap between the two devices roughly varies between 5 and 10 %.

On one hand, I was a bit surprised to see my 3 shots on SkyTrak carrying 176 yards compared to an average of 168 yards on TrackMan, a significant difference of [b]8 yards or 5%.[/b]

On the other hand it is also difficult to compare these products as their price are extremely different (2,000 USD for SkyTrak and around 25,000 USD for Trackman).

I have some concerns that SkyTrak is more a [b]"swing speed/ball speed"[/b] tracker than a real launch monitor.
Do they calculate all the other data ?

What are your thoughts ?

Cheers,

Brooklyn Irons

http://golf-made-in-us.blogspot.com/2014/04/golf-stats-revolution-gained-strokes.html

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[quote name='Brooklyn irons' timestamp='1423510861' post='10918779']
I have hit a few shots this Saturday 7 February on Trackman and Skytrak.

[u]Process: [/u]
6 shots on the Trackman Combine test with an hybrid 5
3 shots on SkyTrak half an hour after the shots on Trackman with the same club

Here are the results:

[url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aD2HXhHHojSk6Nq3A8W3rEn6p_AaJMZ552_PKy3TpJo/edit?usp=sheets_home#gid=0"]https://docs.google....eets_home#gid=0[/url]

Based on the results, it seems that the SkyTrak overestimates most of the data: swing speed, ball speed, carry, spin and launch angle.
The gap between the two devices roughly varies between 5 and 10 %.

On one hand, I was a bit surprised to see my 3 shots on SkyTrak carrying 176 yards compared to an average of 168 yards on TrackMan, a significant difference of [b]8 yards or 5%.[/b]

On the other hand it is also difficult to compare these products as their price are extremely different (2,000 USD for SkyTrak and around 25,000 USD for Trackman).

I have some concerns that SkyTrak is more a [b]"swing speed/ball speed"[/b] tracker than a real launch monitor.
Do they calculate all the other data ?

What are your thoughts ?

Cheers,

Brooklyn Irons

[url="http://golf-made-in-us.blogspot.com/2014/04/golf-stats-revolution-gained-strokes.html"]http://golf-made-in-...ed-strokes.html[/url]
[/quote]

The ball flight calculations for mid to long irons are definatly off with the latest update. I usually hit a 7 iron 175-180 yards, and with the latest update I am getting distances in the low 200's on some shots with the soft conditions setting. Shorter irons seem pretty accurate.

IMO it will be a few more months before the bugs are all worked out. That said it still has been a great tool for me to work on my swing over the winter, and see how swing changes are actually affecting ball flight.

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