Jim Venetos golf swing?

[Tanner25]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410544266' post='10107629']
Hi All,

Glad to see I'm a part of your discussion & I'm glad to answer any questions you might have, I'll start with a few that I have already read.

The Hook - First, I don't teach people to hit a 40 yard hook. The swing I teach produces a tight draw(2-3 yards max). The miss of my swing is a wide hook, but that's the miss and that means that your misses will still end up back at target line. Another important characteristic of the miss is that your misses will never slice which allows you to eliminate one half of the course.

Presetting - Someone mentioned that I am presetting impact, Correct! I'm presetting the back swing, impact, the path of the club and the contact of the shot. This reduces responsibility on the golfer during the swing providing more consistency and ease of performance.

Power and the driver - Without a weight shift it may seem that power is decreased but in fact it's the opposite, power is increased. This is because power doesn't come from speed of the club, it comes from flexing the shaft and reducing spin. How the shaft flexes is by creating a circular swing. When you hold your weight still throughout the swing, a circular swing is easily created as your weight holds the center of the circle still. This circular swing flexes the shaft which gives you the first component of power. Then the closed set up position gives you a shallow path which reduces spin on the ball. It's the combination of these two factors that produces consistent and abundant power. All of my students experience a substantial increase in power throughout the bag and, personally, I have 118 mph club head speed with driver with a mid launch angle and 1800 revs of spin. And, to prove that this swing is powerful I entered one remax long drive qualifier to see how I stacked up against the pros. I hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid at 393, 391, 389, 387, 386(also, I wore my chuck taylor's, I teed the ball low and I never swung hard because I wanted to see what my stock swing would produce). I finished 6th out of 26 & missed qualifying by 6 yards but I proved my point of consistent power. Someone in this forum scoffed at the idea that decreasing spin increases power. I'd like to hear his explanation of that. The whole purpose for the new concept of hitting up on the driver is to reduce spin on the ball but hitting up has 2 flaws; 1, you have to learn how to make one swing for driver and one swing for the rest of your clubs, and, 2, the trajectory is too high making the shot vulnerable to wind.

Back or knee pressure - I've had this swing proven bio-mechanically sound by a USC bio-kinesiologist. This is because the swing I teach is centered at the left shoulder and not the spine. The left shoulder is well equipped to handle the circular motion of the swing but ironically the spine is not. This is because the spine doesn't twist, yet in the traditional swing you are asked to rotate the shoulders around the spine. It is this rotation in the traditional swing that cause stress, pain and fatigue on the spine. Don't believe me, look at Jason Day, Tiger or your buddy who's back hurts when he golfs.

My target audience - Any golfer who has come to the realization that the traditional view points on the swing are too difficult to perform consistently. Any golfer who is tired of changing their swing thoughts everyday. Any golfer who has realized that golf mags are constantly contradicting themselves when they provide instruction. Any golfer who is frustrated of thinking the "have it" today only to come out tomorrow to find that they have to start all over again. Any golfer that thinks their handicap should be a lot lower than it is. Any golfer who is confused by the "snake oil salesman" that are spewing their illogical rhetoric about golf instruction. If traditional swing instruction actually worked, don't you think the average golfer would be better by now?

I teach you a set up that predetermines the path and contact for your swing so all you have to do is hold your weight still to produce a powerful and consistent swing. The position creates the action.

Glad to answer any questions you might have,
Jim
[/quote]

Hi Jim,

Thanks, for sharing more information on your swing and also addressing my concern of a back or knee friendly swing. I want to try the swing, I just don't want to tweak my right knee. If you are moving your arms and not the body - you must feel the pressure somewhere. So, you are saying the left shoulder? Maybe, I am doing the swing wrong. It's seems to be mostly backing into your left heel at address and swinging the arms? Any more details in these areas would be helpful. Welcome to the forum.

Tanner

[golfinglarrypiersall]

2-3 yard draws...that's ducking hilarious...

[Ghost of Snead]

I'm skeptical as well on those LD distances with this type of swing ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ6h8RP-JeM

... unless the qualifier was held on a runway at LAX.

[Tanner25]

easy fellas

[russc1597187869]

Let's take a look at this swing
Setup
1. right hand looks considerably. under
2.unless there is parallax issue the feet look somewhat closed,with the shoulders and hips very closed
3.Both feet toed out .Can not figure the purpose of doing so with the right foot since there is no hip rotation in the swing
4.Left hip outside left heel at setup with weight obviously on his left foot/leg
5.Right leg looks pretty straight while his left leg is bent somewhat at setup
Going back there is a surprising amount of shoulder turn ,indicating above average flexibility and an above average amount of wrist set.His shoulder turn is enough to almost get the shaft parrallel despite NO hip rotation
During the swing there is NO Discernible hip rotation that i can see .There is some lateral movement at the hips going down resulting in the outside of his left hip well outside his left heel and weight shifting towards the target
He maintains his leverage very well going down and obviously possess above average athletic ability and hand-eye coordination

To attack other instructors as snake oil salesmen is a strong and uncalled for pejorative.,although I do agree that most pros are not good instructors


Conclusion
His setup is somewhat similar to what a golfer should use if he has to hit a ball under a tree limb and have it hook left
Can it improve the average golfer .Maybe

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410561836' post='10108873']
easy fellas
[/quote]

He used snake oil salesman and you want people to take it easy?

[tembolo1284]

How do you hit a fade with that motion?

[Schnee]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1410563095' post='10108939']
How do you hit a fade with that motion?
[/quote]

Left handed

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='CSchnee' timestamp='1410563229' post='10108949']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1410563095' post='10108939']
How do you hit a fade with that motion?
[/quote]

Left handed
[/quote]

Brilliant!

[Fade]

This reminds me of the minimalist golf swing promoted by this quirky instructor from India:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA[/url]

[bph7]

I think it speaks to the desperation some must face to even consider trying this. In all seriousness, how completely hopeless and out of ideas does one have to be to even think about this?

[Tanner25]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410563417' post='10108959']
This reminds me of the minimalist golf swing promoted by this quirky instructor from India:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=TaEpF0fdSZA[/url]
[/quote]

WTF, first our IT jobs have gone off shore. Now, our golf instruction, lol

[dornstar]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410563417' post='10108959']
This reminds me of the minimalist golf swing promoted by this quirky instructor from India:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=TaEpF0fdSZA[/url]
[/quote]
Oh. My. God.

What did I just watch?

[dornstar]

On a positive note, I watched most of Jim Venetos videos the other night and I thought they were very well done. I don't agree with his swing philosophy, but I can appreciate the way he presents the information.

[golfinglarrypiersall]

It's called jibber jabber...

http://youtu.be/O2FzC4fArck

[golfinglarrypiersall]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410563417' post='10108959']
This reminds me of the minimalist golf swing promoted by this quirky instructor from India:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA[/url]
[/quote]can't believe this chick is employed...what a joke...

[Lightning Down Under]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1410563031' post='10108933']
[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410561836' post='10108873']
easy fellas
[/quote]

He used snake oil salesman and you want people to take it easy?
[/quote]

Oh boy

[northgolf]

[quote name='Lightning Down Under' timestamp='1410572300' post='10109747']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1410563031' post='10108933']
[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410561836' post='10108873']
easy fellas
[/quote]

He used snake oil salesman and you want people to take it easy?
[/quote]

Oh boy
[/quote]

Popcorn time!

[caeleric]

I welcome Jim's insight and don't want to run him off. I think russc made some great observations, particularly regarding Jim's flexibility and wrist set relative to his lack of hip rotation.

Obviously Monte isn't a fan, and I have to agree with him on some fronts. Honestly, watching this made me think about the red herrings and pseudoscience in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwJM-eBnTb4.

[Lightning Down Under]

[quote name='caeleric' timestamp='1410573971' post='10109895']
I welcome Jim's insight and don't want to run him off. I think russc made some great observations, particularly regarding Jim's flexibility and wrist set relative to his lack of hip rotation.

Obviously Monte isn't a fan, and I have to agree with him on some fronts. Honestly, watching this made me think about the red herrings and pseudoscience in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwJM-eBnTb4.
[/quote]

All this nonsense on these forums .. I buy all of this stuff anyway . I buy everybodies stuff . And I will keep on buying ?

Why ?

Because I want to

Do I care about what people think? Hell no

Will I ever care ? Never

Just a bunch of golfers . Are they going to physically hurt you if they don't believe in your way of playing this goofy game ? No

I'm strong / lean / mean .. I dare them to physically come after me . Infact , I would laugh at that . Here comes the golfers ....oh no !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lmao

[caeleric]

[quote name='Lightning Down Under' timestamp='1410575523' post='10110027'][quote name='caeleric' timestamp='1410573971' post='10109895']
I welcome Jim's insight and don't want to run him off. I think russc made some great observations, particularly regarding Jim's flexibility and wrist set relative to his lack of hip rotation.

Obviously Monte isn't a fan, and I have to agree with him on some fronts. Honestly, watching this made me think about the red herrings and pseudoscience in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwJM-eBnTb4.
[/quote]

All this nonsense on these forums .. I buy all of this stuff anyway . I buy everybodies stuff . And I will keep on buying ?

Why ?

Because I want to

Do I care about what people think? Hell no

Will I ever care ? Never

Just a bunch of golfers . Are they going to physically hurt you if they don't believe in your way of playing this goofy game ? No

I'm strong / lean / mean .. I dare them to physically come after me . Infact , I would laugh at that . Here comes the golfers ....oh no !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lmao[/quote]

wuh???

[ALIF]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410563417' post='10108959']
This reminds me of the minimalist golf swing promoted by this quirky instructor from India:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaEpF0fdSZA[/url]
[/quote]

Holy outsourced Batman!

[Hstead]

CP has been sampling the same stuff Lee has been so he copied and pasted the same response in that thread.

Oh boy!

[eightiron]

Here we go ! The inevitable "turf war" , didn't take long for the starters gun to fire . One thing though , he should fit right in since he has that " contrived zipper away" happening .

[CLSS]

Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS

[Tanner25]

[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410589368' post='10110735']
Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS
[/quote]

Welcome, CLSS. I was thinking a similar point. When Stack n Tilt first came out, I am sure it wasn't received well and it was weird looking too. A few years later a few pros adopted it. I still do not see any of these as body friendly swings though.

[golfinglarrypiersall]

[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410589368' post='10110735']
Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS
[/quote]

Ok Jim...

[russc1597187869]

Combining the lack of hip rotation with no lateral movement or rotation by the head,I am finding it difficult to get to even 9:00 going back.

[Ghost of Snead]

I'd like to see the names/swings of his students that are making "chex" ... IMO, the only golfers that might benefit from this type of swing are golfers with disabilities or seniors with limited mobility. Weight transfer is an integral part of all sports that involve hitting an object with an imnplement of some sort.

[oikos1]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410544266' post='10107629']
Hi All,

Glad to see I'm a part of your discussion & I'm glad to answer any questions you might have, I'll start with a few that I have already read.

The Hook - First, I don't teach people to hit a 40 yard hook. The swing I teach produces a tight draw(2-3 yards max). The miss of my swing is a wide hook, but that's the miss and that means that your misses will still end up back at target line. Another important characteristic of the miss is that your misses will never slice which allows you to eliminate one half of the course.

Presetting - Someone mentioned that I am presetting impact, Correct! I'm presetting the back swing, impact, the path of the club and the contact of the shot. This reduces responsibility on the golfer during the swing providing more consistency and ease of performance.

Power and the driver - Without a weight shift it may seem that power is decreased but in fact it's the opposite, power is increased. This is because power doesn't come from speed of the club, it comes from flexing the shaft and reducing spin. How the shaft flexes is by creating a circular swing. When you hold your weight still throughout the swing, a circular swing is easily created as your weight holds the center of the circle still. This circular swing flexes the shaft which gives you the first component of power. [b]Then the closed set up position gives you a shallow path which reduces spin on the ball. It's the combination of these two factors that produces consistent and abundant power. All of my students experience a substantial increase in power throughout the bag[/b] and, personally, I have 118 mph club head speed with driver with a mid launch angle and 1800 revs of spin. And, to prove that this swing is powerful I entered one remax long drive qualifier to see how I stacked up against the pros. I hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid at 393, 391, 389, 387, 386(also, I wore my chuck taylor's, I teed the ball low and I never swung hard because I wanted to see what my stock swing would produce). I finished 6th out of 26 & missed qualifying by 6 yards but I proved my point of consistent power. Someone in this forum scoffed at the idea that decreasing spin increases power. I'd like to hear his explanation of that. The whole purpose for the new concept of hitting up on the driver is to reduce spin on the ball but hitting up has 2 flaws; 1, you have to learn how to make one swing for driver and one swing for the rest of your clubs, and, 2, the trajectory is too high making the shot vulnerable to wind.

Back or knee pressure - I've had this swing proven bio-mechanically sound by a USC bio-kinesiologist. This is because the swing I teach is centered at the left shoulder and not the spine. The left shoulder is well equipped to handle the circular motion of the swing but ironically the spine is not. This is because the spine doesn't twist, yet in the traditional swing you are asked to rotate the shoulders around the spine. It is this rotation in the traditional swing that cause stress, pain and fatigue on the spine. Don't believe me, look at Jason Day, Tiger or your buddy who's back hurts when he golfs.

My target audience - Any golfer who has come to the realization that the traditional view points on the swing are too difficult to perform consistently. Any golfer who is tired of changing their swing thoughts everyday. Any golfer who has realized that golf mags are constantly contradicting themselves when they provide instruction. Any golfer who is frustrated of thinking the "have it" today only to come out tomorrow to find that they have to start all over again. Any golfer that thinks their handicap should be a lot lower than it is. Any golfer who is confused by the "snake oil salesman" that are spewing their illogical rhetoric about golf instruction. If traditional swing instruction actually worked, don't you think the average golfer would be better by now?

I teach you a set up that predetermines the path and contact for your swing so all you have to do is hold your weight still to produce a powerful and consistent swing. The position creates the action.

Glad to answer any questions you might have,
Jim
[/quote]

Jim,

On one hand, you say power is generated with less spin, and then you say "All of my students experience a substantial increase in power throughout the bag". However, when hitting irons, you have much more spin than the "1800" spin rate you hit at with a driver. Where does the power come from with their irons?