Jim Venetos golf swing?

[NoTalentLefty]

On 9/12/2014 at 10:50 AM, Jimvenetos said:

I did it at warner springs ranch in, I think, 2007 or 2008 late in the season(there was only a few more dates to try to qualify). To give you a sense of how long ago it was, I built a 48 inch 4x ust shaft with a titleist 907 head the night before the event and used it for the first time the next day. I've come to find out that I wasn't using the hottest of heads.

Jim I thought I was delving into a “new way” of swinging a golf club about 2 years ago. Now I found out that you’ve been doing it for well over a decade or more. Should of known. The below will be my testimony for your method.

 

  I have been struggling for over 10 years with a more “conventional “ swing after having a hip replacement on my back hip, left side then 2 years ago had my right hip replaced . Even before that it was getting harder and harder to shift my weight due to hip pain . At the peak of my golf game my hcp was 5 to 7 using a conventional swing but climbed as high as 15 to 17 range as I struggled with my timing and being fed up with the hcp increasing with no end in sight. I started putting more weight on the front side and leaving it there, then went to a closed stance practicing with a square shoulders then  went to totally closed shoulders, hips , and feet. Which you advocate. Well I went from that 16 to an 11.6 late last year playing only once a week. Not much practice is needed to maintain. Play with a group of retirees who are my friends from work. Actually a low man every now and then. And my driving distance is one of the longer now in the group. Your Iron Byron swing comment resonates with me. Exactly what I thought after believing I invented something new. Keep up the good work. There is definitely more than one way to swing a golf club. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by NoTalentLefty

[ChaosTheory]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:02 AM, DaveLeeNC said:

I stumbled into this thread because I have a (supposed) hip problem that on further diagnosis turned out to be a lower back problem. The prognosis here is basically experimental, but the epidural has allowed me to make normal golf swings. OTOH,  I cannot walk and carry my clubs for 18 holes right now. The injection may last a few weeks or it could last a long time. Hence the 'experimental' description.  

 

I was researching 'less turn than I normally do' (my DOB is 1949 so it that is less turn than I used to do) when I stumbled across this thread. It seems to me to be an interesting option. I gave it a few swings at the range yesterday (which was my first attempt at a real swing at a real golf ball since this issue cropped up in late Feb). A few swings is hardly a 'good try' at this type swing, but I have a few questions that I would certainly be asking Jim if I were taking a lesson from him, like ....

 

1) It certainly feels like a weak swing to me (and my few attempts generated weak results). I would be looking for an explanation of just how in the world you get power from basically no rotation (and no rotation could be my future here). 

 

 

Dave, I have messed around with it with irons.  I think its power source includes weight transfer.  As you probably know, most of we recreational golfers don’t transfer weight very efficiently.  With this swing, good weight transfer is baked into the cake.

[DaveLeeNC]

5 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

Dave, I have messed around with it with irons.  I think its power source includes weight transfer.  As you probably know, most of we recreational golfers don’t transfer weight very efficiently.  With this swing, good weight transfer is baked into the cake.

 

 I believe that you are correct in what you have said. However it is really hard to glean that from what I have seen of the Venetos dialogue's. I found it very misleading (even though if I had been interacting with him it would probably have been helpful). 

 

dave

[miamistomp]

 I think Venetos makes thing very clear

  Stillness is everything

[DaveLeeNC]

4 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 I think Venetos makes thing very clear

  Stillness is everything

 

To me "stillness" means your hips do not move (at least not until after impact). Either we have a different definition of stillness or a different understanding of the Venetos swing. 

 

dave

[miamistomp]

 

[DaveLeeNC]

 

@miamistomp I do not know exactly what your point is since you only posted a video. This is not a bad swing and it is not a still lower body (IMHO). dave

Edited June 13, 2021 by DaveLeeNC

[miamistomp]

 Jim just explained it- what is not to get ?

  He maintains lower body position in the BACK swing-obviously he moves through the ball at impact

   It is not a bad swing at all for those who wish to minimize moving parts or lack flexibility

[Tanner25]

the backswing looks tough on the lower back

[NoTalentLefty]

4 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

the backswing looks tough on the lower back

I’m a guy who had issues with bad hips and back. Never have a problem with this swing. My only issue is with my hands. Never played a strong grip until recently, to add to the swing itself. That was or is my only issue but it’s nothing serious. Just odd at first.

[Tanner25]

The swing makes sense to pre-set impact. Soo, many things can go wrong until that point. I guess after 40 yrs of golf, it seems a bit weird and will look it too. 

[NoTalentLefty]

25 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

The swing makes sense to pre-set impact. Soo, many things can go wrong until that point. I guess after 40 yrs of golf, it seems a bit weird and will look it too. 

My thoughts at first were exactly the same. After 46 years of golf my “correct” traditional swing thoughts changed. Not sure I’d ever tried this hadn’t health issues made me look at a way to stop my inconsistencies at impact. Not that I’m much of an original thinker but I found the Venetos swing digging it out of the dirt without the help of his videos. As a matter of fact when this post started in 2014  I’d of agreed with the nay sayers. 

[Scyukon]

For fun, i watched a few videos yesterday.  I just tried it at the range after my session went south while doing backswing extension drills.  I was rather amazed at the contact i made and the lack of effort required. I just did the preset, took the club back with my arms, and dropped it while trying to stay still and keep my shoulders turned.

 

I had a video lesson with Monte about a month ago here he very accurately diagnosed that i was folding my right arm way too much, and also had very little hip and shoulder turn because i was keeping my front heel  on the ground in the backswing. So i been working on correcting both issues with drills he recommended and making some progress with swing width and speed. But i have not been able to take much to the course yet, as it is early days.

 

At any rate, I’m playing tomorrow and desperate for a bandaid to keep the ball in play. This seemed to work at range, even with driver, but then again I’m a 10 on the range and 30 on the course so time will tell. Probably shoot 102 like normal lately then slink back to my drills. But what’s one more swing method got to lose - other than my patience and a few Pro-v1s!

[Scyukon]

On 6/13/2021 at 6:16 AM, NoTalentLefty said:

My thoughts at first were exactly the same. After 46 years of golf my “correct” traditional swing thoughts changed. Not sure I’d ever tried this hadn’t health issues made me look at a way to stop my inconsistencies at impact. Not that I’m much of an original thinker but I found the Venetos swing digging it out of the dirt without the help of his videos. As a matter of fact when this post started in 2014  I’d of agreed with the nay sayers. 

I’ve been playing 46 years too, but the last 5 have been riddled with back pain while i chased lag due to distance loss. Now I’m think I’m to the point where keeping the ball in play and being able to walk without pain after the round are wins. Thanks for sharing that method has worked for you and good for you for digging it out of the dirt.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Scyukon

[NoTalentLefty]

21 minutes ago, Scyukon said:

I’ve been playing 46 years too, but the last 5 have been riddled with back pain while i chased lag due to distance loss. Now I’m think I’m to the point where keeping the ball in play and being able to walk without pain after the round are wins. Thanks for sharing that method has worked for you and good for you for digging it out of the dirt.

Hope all goes well. I wish I had seen the videos years ago. The digging it out of the dirt could of been spared by watching the vids. Actually learned learned a lot still from the YouTube channel for some tweaking.

[Scyukon]

1 hour ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Hope all goes well. I wish I had seen the videos years ago. The digging it out of the dirt could of been spared by watching the vids. Actually learned learned a lot still from the YouTube channel for some tweaking.

Thanks - yet again I’m very excited, as Hope always springs eternal after a promising range session. I am currently scouring the web for some short game vids as well.

[Scyukon]

So i finally got to try this method on the course today, as the round planned for last Tuesday was cancelled due to lightning. So far after 4 ranges sessions and 1 round of golf, i am happy to report 0 back pain afterwards, which is a major win for me.

 

Concerning today’s round, i controlled the ball much better, and only lost 1 ball in a water hazard. In past rounds i had been going through 6 or 7 balls alternating between snap hooks or vicious blocks to the right.

 

i found that my contact point on the grass was different than on the range mats, so have some work to do there. But i also compressed some balls very nicely and took a proper divot, which has not been happening for quite some time.

 

But again, just being pain free is the major win to report back here. Improvement can continue if i actually am not crippled up post round.

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

29 minutes ago, Scyukon said:

So i finally got to try this method on the course today, as the round planned for last Tuesday was cancelled due to lightning. So far after 4 ranges sessions and 1 round of golf, i am happy to report 0 back pain afterwards, which is a major win for me.

 

Concerning today’s round, i controlled the ball much better, and only lost 1 ball in a water hazard. In past rounds i had been going through 6 or 7 balls alternating between snap hooks or vicious blocks to the right.

 

i found that my contact point on the grass was different than on the range mats, so have some work to do there. But i also compressed some balls very nicely and took a proper divot, which has not been happening for quite some time.

 

But again, just being pain free is the major win to report back here. Improvement can continue if i actually am not crippled up post round.

 

 

Ive been there more than once, where finding a way to play without pain makes the other things seem a lot less important.

[mich750]

I also started playing around with this swing and to tell you the truth I haven't hit any big hooks in one 18 hole round and two nines.  I shot 78, 38 and then 44.  The reason I changed is I have been struggling with shanks for the last 5 or six years and I just need something that stopped my right hip from extending early.  I'm in my mid 50's, hit most of my drives in the 260 range, with my 8 iron at 155 or so.   I use to have a very good short game, but the shanks have me all screwed up.  Thankfully, I am making a ton of putts and trying and leave my approach shots in the full shot range.  At this point, I haven't noticed any loss of distance.  I usually play a fade, but for the most part that has gone away.  I'm hitting it pretty straight with my misses being more of a 10 yard pull (lots of just off the greens misses left).  Hence the 44 my last 9 hole round (damn chips from just off the green aren't the easiest shot  in the world lately)😞.  I will keep you posted on my progress.

[Scyukon]

So i have actually signed up to his website on a monthly basis (for now) and been working my way through the lessons. The first set of lessons is on the short shots and how that becomes the foundation for the entire swing.

 

i did a no no and went out and played a round on Sunday (Jim advises that you don’t play for a while as you are learning the swing - but our season here is too damn short to take two or three weeks off!).

 

Anyways, using this technique, i hit some of the best flop shops i have hit in years. So mich750 if you are struggling with the short game you may want to give this a try. I had not worked my way through to the driver lessons yet so i struggled a bit with a weight forward move on those shots (i only hit 3 woods off the deck in my first round using this swing). However i cobbled together a stay still pass with my weight equally distributed towards the end of the round, as i was not keeping score and instead just trying the swing on real grass. I ended up crushing (for me now crush = 250-260) my last 5 drives in a row. And once again, no pain!! 😀

[NoTalentLefty]

I find one thing hard in this swing method, “Stillness” and getting too rigid. What I do to get that worked out  , is show up early before tee times, go to the range , and hit balls using 1/2 swings. Takes all the rigidness out of the first tee on the full swing. Doesn’t take many balls to get there. 
  I also have self doubts about the swing method itself . But that’s because it looks so different to anything i was ever taught. It did lower my HCP though. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Decided to sign up for a year. Figured I was missing things from just watching his vids on YouTube. Jim Venetos  goes into much more detail in his website. Can’t wait to take what I needed to add to the practice range and the course. 

[tm3]

22 hours ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Decided to sign up for a year. Figured I was missing things from just watching his vids on YouTube. Jim Venetos  goes into much more detail in his website. Can’t wait to take what I needed to add to the practice range and the course. 

 

I hope that you will post a little detail about what "extra" is on the www site and how it all works.  Thanks!

[NoTalentLefty]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

 

I hope that you will post a little detail about what "extra" is on the www site and how it all works.  Thanks!

Not sure that’s ethical. The man needs to make a living. 

[tm3]

19 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Not sure that’s ethical. The man needs to make a living. 

Absolutely.  I wouldn't ask or expect you to reveal actual content.  I was thinking along the lines of generalities, such as "the site is laid out in modules ...... short game, irons, driver etc.  Within each module is a series of videos that start at a basic level, and then build from there.  There are multiple drills to enforce the different concepts ......"

 

But if you don't feel comfortable, no problem.

[NoTalentLefty]

4 minutes ago, tm3 said:

Absolutely.  I wouldn't ask or expect you to reveal actual content.  I was thinking along the lines of generalities, such as "the site is laid out in modules ...... short game, irons, driver etc.  Within each module is a series of videos that start at a basic level, and then build from there.  There are multiple drills to enforce the different concepts ......"

 

But if you don't feel comfortable, no problem.

It is laid out in modules. Starts on short game first. Driver toward end.

[scopek]

On 7/20/2021 at 12:19 PM, NoTalentLefty said:

It is laid out in modules. Starts on short game first. Driver toward end.

Looking forward to see how you progress. Keep us posted. 

[MrHateCoffee]

So I've been a member of Jim's site for about 4 months now.  I've decided to walk away, here's my honest and brief review:

 

PROS

-This is a useful way to learn to swing more consistently.

-You get personalized video feedback from Jim

-I've completely gotten rid of my slice.

 

CONS

-It gets way harder for longer clubs.  Even with video feedback from Jim I couldn't really get it consistently.

-Video feedback is limiting because you can only submit around a 10 second clip.  Most of the time I wound up submitting my best recording, but I would have preferred to send him a clip of 2-3 swings at a time so he could see what I tend to deviate to over time.  There's also not a mechanism to ask questions or respond to his video feedback.  I guess email works but it would have been nice to have it built-in to the program.

-There's no good video of him hitting long clubs (especially on the course) so you really can't get a good feel for the true potential.  He does an excellent job with the short game by giving you multiple angles and allowing you to see the end result, but the full swing vids aren't much different from what's on Youtube.  It's just him with that desert backdrop that makes it hard to see ball flight and distance.

-There is some distance loss (but not much)

-I never could figure out the alignment.  Aiming to the right sent my shots to the right.  I ended up having to aim straight on to get a workable result.

 

Lastly, I wish there was a member's forum so I could discuss with other people learning the swing.

 

Overall it was a cool experiment and I learned some things that can transfer into my normal swing.  Like I said before, nobody seems to stick with this method.  If you follow people on youtube or other forums they always abandon it for something else.  The funniest is Golf Test Dummy on YouTube, who says nothing but positive things but decided to stop using the method.  

[garyt]

20 minutes ago, MrHateCoffee said:

The funniest is Golf Test Dummy on YouTube, who says nothing but positive things but decided to stop using the method.  

You can't go by what he does. His whole schtick is trying new swings. If he stuck to one he'd be out of business. He really liked the Gary Edwin RSS swing also but he switched from that, too. He's never going to stay with one swing no matter how well it works. Who knows what swing he actually uses when not on camera?

[tm3]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:58 AM, MrHateCoffee said:

So I've been a member of Jim's site for about 4 months now.  I've decided to walk away, here's my honest and brief review:

 

PROS

-This is a useful way to learn to swing more consistently.

-You get personalized video feedback from Jim

-I've completely gotten rid of my slice.

 

CONS

-It gets way harder for longer clubs.  Even with video feedback from Jim I couldn't really get it consistently.

-Video feedback is limiting because you can only submit around a 10 second clip.  Most of the time I wound up submitting my best recording, but I would have preferred to send him a clip of 2-3 swings at a time so he could see what I tend to deviate to over time.  There's also not a mechanism to ask questions or respond to his video feedback.  I guess email works but it would have been nice to have it built-in to the program.

-There's no good video of him hitting long clubs (especially on the course) so you really can't get a good feel for the true potential.  He does an excellent job with the short game by giving you multiple angles and allowing you to see the end result, but the full swing vids aren't much different from what's on Youtube.  It's just him with that desert backdrop that makes it hard to see ball flight and distance.

-There is some distance loss (but not much)

-I never could figure out the alignment.  Aiming to the right sent my shots to the right.  I ended up having to aim straight on to get a workable result.

 

Lastly, I wish there was a member's forum so I could discuss with other people learning the swing.

 

Overall it was a cool experiment and I learned some things that can transfer into my normal swing.  Like I said before, nobody seems to stick with this method.  If you follow people on youtube or other forums they always abandon it for something else.  The funniest is Golf Test Dummy on YouTube, who says nothing but positive things but decided to stop using the method.  

 

That is a great analysis.  Thanks for posting it!

 

I don't understand the driver and long club difficulty, and it is a very common complaint from people who have committed to the JV swing.  Seems so prevalent in fact that I would think he would have more instruction addressing it, not less.

 

The video submission and feedback issue also sounds strange, and not ideal for a subscription service.  I agree with you; somebody at my (lack of) skill level probably makes different errors from swing to swing and I never have bought into the "experts" who claim that they only need to see one swing.