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CentralMassGolfer
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I have a young family and live in Southborough, looking for a club to join and looking for your help. Everytime I play a place like Salem it makes me wish this area had something comparable. I live very close to Hopkinton cc and Framingham but hear very mixed reviews. Marlboro is almost public at this point. I also hear charter oak isn't worth the money. Is the international the pick? Thank you for your opinions.

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[quote name='CentralMassGolfer' timestamp='1410659554' post='10113747']
I have a young family and live in Southborough, looking for a club to join and looking for your help. Everytime I play a place like Salem it makes me wish this area had something comparable. I live very close to Hopkinton cc and Framingham but hear very mixed reviews. Marlboro is almost public at this point. I also hear charter oak isn't worth the money. Is the international the pick? Thank you for your opinions.
[/quote]

What about The Haven in Boylston? Not too far from Southboro, with nice pool facility for the family and a really challenging golf course.

International has lost a lot of members the past couple of years, and is really just a golf facility - no pool.

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Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
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Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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Didn't realize they renamed mt pleasant. Looks like a great spot, any idea the initiation or dues?

Any opinions on the other clubs I mentioned? It would be great to also hear more about those places. Hopkinton is so close to me, but from what most people say, it's saddle hill with a face lift.

Thank you for the thoughts

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[quote name='CentralMassGolfer' timestamp='1410692629' post='10114667']
Didn't realize they renamed mt pleasant. Looks like a great spot, any idea the initiation or dues?

Any opinions on the other clubs I mentioned? It would be great to also hear more about those places. Hopkinton is so close to me, but from what most people say, it's saddle hill with a face lift.

Thank you for the thoughts
[/quote]

Hopkinton is Saddle Hill with a facelift.

No initiation at The Haven, but I think they are getting close to full. A lot of new members this year, many who left The International.

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 6S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Miura CB 801 5-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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[quote name='CentralMassGolfer' timestamp='1410816251' post='10122079']
Are you a haven member? What kind of changes have you seen with new ownership?
[/quote]

I am. We've been there for three years. They've made a lot of improvements to the facilities and the course. It's a great place for families with the pool and activities for kids. We really like it there.

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 6S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Miura CB 801 5-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410660046' post='10113779']
[quote name='CentralMassGolfer' timestamp='1410659554' post='10113747']
I have a young family and live in Southborough, looking for a club to join and looking for your help. Everytime I play a place like Salem it makes me wish this area had something comparable. I live very close to Hopkinton cc and Framingham but hear very mixed reviews. Marlboro is almost public at this point. I also hear charter oak isn't worth the money. Is the international the pick? Thank you for your opinions.
[/quote]

What about The Haven in Boylston? Not too far from Southboro, with nice pool facility for the family and a really challenging golf course.

International has lost a lot of members the past couple of years, and is really just a golf facility - no pool.
[/quote]

Membership at The International is up 30% over the last 2 years. For every member that's left, 4 or 5 have joined.

It is strictly a golf club, but it has the best practice facilities and the best courses in the area. There aren't many "Salem CC's" around, although I think Worcester is a better track than Salem ... but impossible to get in.

I haven't played The Haven for many years, but looked at when it was for sale. They've had major problems through the years and have been notorious for having one of the worst memberships in all of New England.

When it was sold, the new owner made a commitment to spend a specific amount of money on improvements over the coming years (I think the agreement called for $1.5M over 3 years). He also brought in Brian Lynch from The International, as the General Manager. Brian is one of the premier general managers in golf and I have no doubt he'll create a great club.

The International & the Haven are apples & oranges ... Worcester CC is a tangerine and a spectacular one.

Charter Oak probably has the best "family membership" of all the private clubs in the area. They have a great restaurant and plenty of things going on ... I don't know anyone who likes the golf course.

Hopkinton also has a great membership, an owner with VERY deep pockets and nice facilities ... not a great golf course, but a huge improvement from what they started with.

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[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1410829347' post='10123267']
[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410660046' post='10113779']
[quote name='CentralMassGolfer' timestamp='1410659554' post='10113747']
I have a young family and live in Southborough, looking for a club to join and looking for your help. Everytime I play a place like Salem it makes me wish this area had something comparable. I live very close to Hopkinton cc and Framingham but hear very mixed reviews. Marlboro is almost public at this point. I also hear charter oak isn't worth the money. Is the international the pick? Thank you for your opinions.
[/quote]

What about The Haven in Boylston? Not too far from Southboro, with nice pool facility for the family and a really challenging golf course.

International has lost a lot of members the past couple of years, and is really just a golf facility - no pool.
[/quote]

Membership at The International is up 30% over the last 2 years. For every member that's left, 4 or 5 have joined.

It is strictly a golf club, but it has the best practice facilities and the best courses in the area. There aren't many "Salem CC's" around, although I think Worcester is a better track than Salem ... but impossible to get in.

I haven't played The Haven for many years, but looked at when it was for sale. They've had major problems through the years and have been notorious for having one of the worst memberships in all of New England.

When it was sold, the new owner made a commitment to spend a specific amount of money on improvements over the coming years (I think the agreement called for $1.5M over 3 years). He also brought in Brian Lynch from The International, as the General Manager. Brian is one of the premier general managers in golf and I have no doubt he'll create a great club.

The International & the Haven are apples & oranges ... Worcester CC is a tangerine and a spectacular one.

Charter Oak probably has the best "membership" of all the private clubs in the area. They have a great restaurant and plenty of things going on ... I don't know anyone who likes the golf course.

Hopkinton also has a great membership, an owner with VERY deep pockets and nice facilities ... not a great golf course, but a huge improvement from what they started with.
[/quote]

I've played the International many times. It's a great facility, but in my opinion the experience is devalued now since the Oaks course is open to the public. And I've spoken to members who are still there and who have left there, and none were thrilled with sharing one of the courses with the public, or with the reduced access to tee times for the $ they are paying.

If the International has gained so many members, then why did they have to open one of the two courses to the public? That "in the past two years" phrase is a little curious - how many did they lose in the 2-3 years prior to that?

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 6S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Miura CB 801 5-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
I've played the International many times. It's a great facility, but in my opinion the experience is devalued now since the Oaks course is open to the public. And I've spoken to members who are still there and who have left there, and none were thrilled with sharing one of the courses with the public, or with the reduced access to tee times for the $ they are paying.

[/quote]

There is/was no "reduced access to Tee Times", there is no public access to The Pines and dues were reduced by 25%. That said, you're entitled to whatever opinion you wish to hold, whether based on your experience or what you "heard".


[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
If the International has gained so many members, then why did they have to open one of the two courses to the public? That "in the past two years" phrase is a little curious - how many did they lose in the 2-3 years prior to that?
[/quote]

The International facility is a $25,000,000 golf and function facility and The Haven is a $3.5M country club ... it's apples & oranges.

As for "losing members"? Mt. Pleasant was down to 120 members 4 or 5 years ago, which is why they created the "alternative memberships" back when you joined. It's also the reason it was sold. Country clubs that attempt to maintain religious or ethnic purity, typically struggle in difficult economies.

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[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1410831415' post='10123515']
[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
I've played the International many times. It's a great facility, but in my opinion the experience is devalued now since the Oaks course is open to the public. And I've spoken to members who are still there and who have left there, and none were thrilled with sharing one of the courses with the public, or with the reduced access to tee times for the $ they are paying.

[/quote]

There is/was no "reduced access to Tee Times", there is no public access to The Pines and dues were reduced by 25%. That said, you're entitled to whatever opinion you wish to hold, whether based on your experience or what you "heard".


[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
If the International has gained so many members, then why did they have to open one of the two courses to the public? That "in the past two years" phrase is a little curious - how many did they lose in the 2-3 years prior to that?
[/quote]

The International facility is valued at $25,000,000 and the Haven was sold for $3.5M ... it's apples & oranges. As for "losing members"? Mt. Pleasant was down to 120 members a few years ago, which is why they created all the "alternative memberships" a few years ago, when you joined.
[/quote]

If he can get $25 million then he should take it immediately. Has anyone actually offered $25 million? :lol:

I think The Haven is up close to 300 members now. Things have changed a lot in the past couple of years. Some nice renovations to the clubhouse and parking, new poolhouse/snack bar, new snack shack on the golf course, new putting green, new forward tee boxes, and some good changes to holes 2 and 14. I think there are more golf course renovations planned.

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 6S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Miura CB 801 5-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410832676' post='10123747']

I think The Haven is up close to 300 members now. Things have changed a lot in the past couple of years. Some nice renovations to the clubhouse and parking, new poolhouse/snack bar, new snack shack on the golf course, new putting green, new forward tee boxes, and some good changes to holes 2 and 14. I think there are more golf course renovations planned.
[/quote]

Brian Lynch is the best "private club general manager", east of the Mississippi river. He'll do a great job at running the club (the awful name choice, aside).

Aruthur Remillard is a good guy and I'm sure Regan is no different and will be a conscientious owner. Whether he's willing to maintain the club as "private" after his agreement expires in another 8 years, remains to be seen.

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I really like The Haven course layout. Hated the membership... hopefully that is changing. The International is the best golf facility I've been to in New England. They do allow public play on The Oaks... had to pay the bills. But, they have a top notch conference center and restaurant/bar. Great banquet facilities and I love the Pines Course.... a course I've played many times since the late 70s. Charter Oaks has a good clubhouse, great members, lousy golf course. Franklin CC is a very good family club with brand new pool complex, fairly new clubhouse and an active Board moving the club forwared. Walpole is a great course as well. Framingham is a mixed bag imho. Cliquey membership with lots of yuppies. Great pool, good facilities. They just spent big bucks on bunker restoration and how many courses can brag that they have "Molly's t**" on the opening hole?

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  • 1 month later...

You should think about why you dismiss Hopkinton. I've played it several times. I agree its Saddle Hill with a facelift, but they've really done an outstanding job of the renovation and conditioning. Its the best Saddle Hill it can be. Kirkbrae in RI is similar for similar reasons. The underlying question is whether you can have a really good country club based on an architecturally weak golf course.

I think you can. Hopkinton will never host the MGA Amateur. Is it important to you to play a "great" golf course every week? I'm a member at a significantly architecturally flawed course (Fall River CC). Big hitters hate the course. The back nine especially is quirky and frequently unfair. As a member, I've found the unfairness to be something I enjoy and appreciate and I think it increases the appeal to the mid-handicapper. Or maybe it doesn't. To a certain extent, there's a lot of factors in play beyond golf course architecture in joining a golf club. Franklin CC recently changed their weekend tee time system and boy did I hear members howl when I got paired up with some in a foursome elsewhere this spring. Good partners and a well-run accessible course is much more important than architecture to me.

People underestimate the value of being a member at a course very, very close to your house, especially with kids.

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[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1410831415' post='10123515']
[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
I've played the International many times. It's a great facility, but in my opinion the experience is devalued now since the Oaks course is open to the public. And I've spoken to members who are still there and who have left there, and none were thrilled with sharing one of the courses with the public, or with the reduced access to tee times for the $ they are paying.

[/quote]

There is/was no "reduced access to Tee Times", there is no public access to The Pines and dues were reduced by 25%. That said, you're entitled to whatever opinion you wish to hold, whether based on your experience or what you "heard".


[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1410829952' post='10123321']
If the International has gained so many members, then why did they have to open one of the two courses to the public? That "in the past two years" phrase is a little curious - how many did they lose in the 2-3 years prior to that?
[/quote]

The International facility is a $25,000,000 golf and function facility and The Haven is a $3.5M country club ... it's apples & oranges.

As for "losing members"? Mt. Pleasant was down to 120 members 4 or 5 years ago, which is why they created the "alternative memberships" back when you joined. It's also the reason it was sold. Country clubs that attempt to maintain religious or ethnic purity, typically struggle in difficult economies.
[/quote]

MP was never down to 120 members. They never went below 240. The club was offered to the membership for sale and one of them took the bait and promised to keep it private for 10 years. Seeing that most of the Board was over 65yrs old they made the deal. They didn't have to raise dues and were able to not only keep "their" course but pushed through a sales agreement where the present owner has to improve the product, ingenious really.

It was all jewish in the 70's and early 80's but slowly relaxed their practices to the point that jewish members are in the minority.

International is slowly being milked dry by the prodigal son. Pub is open to the public, as is their best course, the Oaks. I bet if you brought a check for $2.5 million you could get the whole shooting match, no need for the extra $22.5 mil.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

[quote name='sodak77' timestamp='1432071701' post='11588824']
Can anyone confirm whether or not The International went back to being fully Private? Was looking to play the Oaks over Memorial Day weekend and it is no longer listed on GolfNow and their website has removed all rate information. The writing is on the wall, just wanted to confirm.
[/quote]

Confirmed, went fully private again this year.

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[quote name='Donny Ross' timestamp='1416085049' post='10452191']

MP was never down to 120 members. They never went below 240. The club was offered to the membership for sale and one of them took the bait and promised to keep it private for 10 years. Seeing that most of the Board was over 65yrs old they made the deal. They didn't have to raise dues and were able to not only keep "their" course but pushed through a sales agreement where the present owner has to improve the product, ingenious really.

It was all jewish in the 70's and early 80's but slowly relaxed their practices to the point that jewish members are in the minority.

International is slowly being milked dry by the prodigal son. Pub is open to the public, as is their best course, the Oaks. I bet if you brought a check for $2.5 million you could get the whole shooting match, no need for the extra $22.5 mil.
[/quote]

Our company had an offer in on Mount Pleasant, so I'm intimately aware of the dynamic and their membership history.

As for The International, I'm sorry but you don't have a clue what's going on, nor what a facility like that is worth.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not a member at Franklin, but have a family member who is and have played it quite a few times. It's a great course with subpar range. If you want to hit driver you have to use special balls because of how short the range is. No grass tees, if I remember correctly. There is talks of building a new range behind the pool (near where the 4th tee currently is) but that's just talk at this point. That being said, the course is always in great condition and is a fair test with quick greens. The on course snack shack is easily assessable after the 5th hole. Something I've always thought was very neat are the coolers on the sides of the golf carts (there's an ice machine outside the snack shack)

I've heard Framingham is a decent track with very tight fairways. Know a few people who are members who enjoy playing other courses in the area more than their own club, lol.

Was disappointed to hear The Oaks at the International went private again. Played it last season on an insane GolfNow deal. Easily one of the best courses I've played in MA. The practice facility is top notch and course was in pristine shape.

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[quote name='YoMikeT' timestamp='1432925539' post='11651206']
I'm not a member at Franklin, but have a family member who is and have played it quite a few times. It's a great course with subpar range. If you want to hit driver you have to use special balls because of how short the range is. No grass tees, if I remember correctly. There is talks of building a new range behind the pool (near where the 4th tee currently is) but that's just talk at this point. That being said, the course is always in great condition and is a fair test with quick greens. The on course snack shack is easily assessable after the 5th hole. Something I've always thought was very neat are the coolers on the sides of the golf carts (there's an ice machine outside the snack shack)

I've heard Framingham is a decent track with very tight fairways. Know a few people who are members who enjoy playing other courses in the area more than their own club, lol.

Was disappointed to hear The Oaks at the International went private again. Played it last season on an insane GolfNow deal. Easily one of the best courses I've played in MA. The practice facility is top notch and course was in pristine shape.
[/quote]

Franklin has already started building the new range to the left of woods that line the left side of the third fairway. Supposed to be ready for next year I think.

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 6S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Diamana Ilima 80S

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Miura CB 801 5-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

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[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1432926760' post='11651314']
[quote name='YoMikeT' timestamp='1432925539' post='11651206']
I'm not a member at Franklin, but have a family member who is and have played it quite a few times. It's a great course with subpar range. If you want to hit driver you have to use special balls because of how short the range is. No grass tees, if I remember correctly. There is talks of building a new range behind the pool (near where the 4th tee currently is) but that's just talk at this point. That being said, the course is always in great condition and is a fair test with quick greens. The on course snack shack is easily assessable after the 5th hole. Something I've always thought was very neat are the coolers on the sides of the golf carts (there's an ice machine outside the snack shack)

I've heard Framingham is a decent track with very tight fairways. Know a few people who are members who enjoy playing other courses in the area more than their own club, lol.

Was disappointed to hear The Oaks at the International went private again. Played it last season on an insane GolfNow deal. Easily one of the best courses I've played in MA. The practice facility is top notch and course was in pristine shape.
[/quote]

Franklin has already started building the new range to the left of woods that line the left side of the third fairway. Supposed to be ready for next year I think.
[/quote]

Good to know! I haven't played there yet this season so I wasn't aware. Thanks for the reply.

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  • 1 year later...

Hey guys this was very helpful a few years back but I'm back to pose the same question after a few years at The International.

 

The closest options for me are Framingham CC and Hopkinton cc, which give both a leg up. Was wondering if anyone has opinions on these or Charter oak, or any place I'm overlooking?

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Hey guys this was very helpful a few years back but I'm back to pose the same question after a few years at The International.

 

The closest options for me are Framingham CC and Hopkinton cc, which give both a leg up. Was wondering if anyone has opinions on these or Charter oak, or any place I'm overlooking?

 

I can't comment on the membership or fees, etc. but I used to caddie at Framingham CC in the nineties. Tillinghast had some input on the design, but was not the architect of record. It has elements of his style, if you are familiar with other courses of his, the elevation changes are quite severe on some holes.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey guys this was very helpful a few years back but I'm back to pose the same question after a few years at The International.

 

The closest options for me are Framingham CC and Hopkinton cc, which give both a leg up. Was wondering if anyone has opinions on these or Charter oak, or any place I'm overlooking?

 

I think a message board is the wrong place for this type of significant decision. Try and speak with people at both clubs that you know or can be introduced to. You will probably need letters anyways.

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  • 3 years later...

This thread was really helpful 6 yrs ago, I've been a member at the international ever since. Unfortunately, they are closing their doors and I'm looking for a new club.

I work in Boston, still live in Southboro, would like any suggestions. I'm thinking the options are Framingham, Worcester, hopkinton, Marlboro, charter oak ? Any I'm missing? Recommendations are much appreciated

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  • 2 weeks later...

Charter Oak definitley the best kept secret in Metro West. Conditions impeccable, Course is a great challenege, Pub, Grill and Dining are top notch (multi million dollar reno last year). Pool and tennis, are all newly refurbished. New short game area to practice all differerent shots. Also great membership, can always get a game Sat or Sun a.m. in the sweeps.

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      Eric Cole - WITB - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Ludvig Aberg - WITB - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      S.H. Kim - WITB - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Thomas Detry - WITB - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Callaway's new headcovers - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Swag covers - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Cameron Putters and covers - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Callaway "proto" Roger Cleveland designed wedge - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Justin Lower's 1 off Odyssey/Toulon Las Vegas putter - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Cameron Reps working with Rickie Fowler - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Puma bag - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Xander Schauffele - new Odyssey putter - 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
      • 4 replies
    • 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2023 The Honda Classic - Monday #1
      2023 The Honda Classic - Monday #2
      2023 The Honda Classic - Tuesday #1
      2023 The Honda Classic - Tuesday #2
      2023 The Honda Classic - Tuesday #3
      2023 The Honda Classic - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory Sabbatini - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Andrew Kozan - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Dylan Wu - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Tyler Collet - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      William McGirt - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Kelly Kraft - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Pierceson Coody - WITB - 2023 The Honda Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      TPT with new graphics - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Carson Young's custom Cameron putter - 2023 The Honda Classic
      AK's custom Cameron putter - 2023 The Honda Classic
      New Seemore putters - 2023 The Honda Classic
      Custom Cameron putter - 2023 The Honda Classic
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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