Critique my swing! (Updated Video)

[madlife5]

So I have put a lot of work into my swing this year, despite not being able playing a whole lot (first baby) and I have to say I am pleased with my progress. I have been plagued with a coming over the top action that I think I now have a handle on. I bought a video series from Martin Chuck and that he really opened my eyes to what I think was a major flow in my action- not taking the club to the inside… so in the process of fixing my path, the over the top action, along with balance throughout the swing seems to have reduced significantly. Today is the first time I have been the range and I feel like this is working very well for me.

 

With all that… maybe my improvement is not as good as I think. Please take a look and shine light on anything you see I can improve upon. You are guys are the experts please critique my humble submission:

[JPGolf FL]

Not bad at all. Couple of issues going on but I would say biggest thing to address is the wrists. Need to loosen them up and let them fully set. Gonna feel kind of out of control.

[TB07]

Your setup is too closed and ball too far back. This helps you manage the fact that the arms are too far behind your pivot. Need to start working towards keep arms in front.

[MonteScheinblum]

Too much early right elbow bend and not enough vertical wrist set.

Fix that then move the ball forward in your stance.

[madlife5]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1412973204' post='10267183']
Not bad at all. Couple of issues going on but I would say biggest thing to address is the wrists. Need to loosen them up and let them fully set. Gonna feel kind of out of control.
[/quote]
Yes! I noticed this after i watched this video and worked on it some this afternoon. Thank you! Keep the comments coming if you see more.

[madlife5]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1412976380' post='10267457']
Your setup is too closed and ball too far back. This helps you manage the fact that the arms are too far behind your pivot. Need to start working towards keep arms in front.
[/quote]
Agreed on the ball too far back in stance... on my "watch it" list. Can you tell me more about "Arms behind pivot"?

[madlife5]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1412977565' post='10267549']
Too much early right elbow bend and not enough vertical wrist set.

Fix that then move the ball forward in your stance.
[/quote]
Monte- agreed on the early elbow bend. should be a painless fix- Its something I have worked on.. guess I forgot about it with the new pieces I'm Incorporating.

Question on wrist hinge: When its it best to occur in relation to the right elbow bend? How much hinge should there be by the time the elbow starts bending?

[TB07]

[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1412983421' post='10268023']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1412976380' post='10267457']
Your setup is too closed and ball too far back. This helps you manage the fact that the arms are too far behind your pivot. Need to start working towards keep arms in front.
[/quote]
Agreed on the ball too far back in stance... on my "watch it" list. Can you tell me more about "Arms behind pivot"?
[/quote]

Let's just say the arms move back more than your body rotates. Then in downswing your body opens or moves first, and the arms don't move down and forward fast enough. So essentially your body is at its impact position well before arms and club. This leads to low point being further back than it should. Which is reason why you play ball so far back in stance.

[madlife5]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1412984137' post='10268085']
[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1412983421' post='10268023']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1412976380' post='10267457']
Your setup is too closed and ball too far back. This helps you manage the fact that the arms are too far behind your pivot. Need to start working towards keep arms in front.
[/quote]
Agreed on the ball too far back in stance... on my "watch it" list. Can you tell me more about "Arms behind pivot"?
[/quote]

Let's just say the arms move back more than your body rotates. Then in downswing your body opens or moves first, and the arms don't move down and forward fast enough. So essentially your body is at its impact position well before arms and club. This leads to low point being further back than it should. Which is reason why you play ball so far back in stance.
[/quote]

In the backswing, I am trying to rotate my shoulders as much as possible while preventing my hips from rotating too much.... that way I coil my body and store that energy for the downswing/release of the club. In the downswing I am trying to rotate my body out of the way so my arms can swing freely around it. Should I limit my arm going back? or get arms involved sooner in the downswing?? Thank you very much for your help.

[TB07]

Arms can go less inward during backswing and then move faster in downswing. Here's two videos that will help ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46h0UEBBMyY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDygtiW8oag

[Golf nerd]

Hi madlife (funny name ),

you made a big step to get rid of the over the top move. However, you seem to overcook the cure now.
Dunno if the open clubface was the main reason for coming OTT as compensation, but it is still a little too open at P6 (shaft parallel to ground pre impact).
Leading edge should have more of an angle like your spine.

Usually this OTT move goes hand in hand with throw away of the lag angle, which is noticeable in your downswing at P5 (left arm parallel
to the ground pre impact). Early release causes hitting behind the ball and as compensation you place the ball to the right in your stance, which is a bad spot for an open clubface pre impact, because the path is to the right and an open clubface will lead to a push.

The conclusion is that you should work on retaining your lag angle first and then move the ball position to the left and then start to work on a take away that it will be less inside. There is plenty of information about lag available and I have chosen this high speed footage to show you how long the right hand is 'dorsi-flexed' (backwards). Christo Garcia (myswingevolution) calls this position 'shangri-la' for any reason...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7hBadAiMcA&index=159&list=UUdRcEf_HwndfoiLPb0Cgw3w

Hope that makes sense.
until after impact. Also take notice of the forward position of the leading edge and compare this with your position at P6.

[360_CS]

That video of you playing basketball with your dog is AWESOME.

[madlife5]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1413003000' post='10269411']
Arms can go less inward during backswing and then move faster in downswing. Here's two videos that will help ....
[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46h0UEBBMyY"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=46h0UEBBMyY[/url]

[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDygtiW8oag"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=RDygtiW8oag[/url]
[/quote]
Gotyah! I like the football drill...will give it a go. Thanks for all you help, sir. I have things to work on over the winter.

[madlife5]

[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1413019421' post='10269739'] Hi madlife (funny name ), you made a big step to get rid of the over the top move. However, you seem to overcook the cure now. Dunno if the open clubface was the main reason for coming OTT as compensation, but it is still a little too open at P6 (shaft parallel to ground pre impact). Leading edge should have more of an angle like your spine. Usually this OTT move goes hand in hand with throw away of the lag angle, which is noticeable in your downswing at P5 (left arm parallel to the ground pre impact). Early release causes hitting behind the ball and as compensation you place the ball to the right in your stance, which is a bad spot for an open clubface pre impact, because the path is to the right and an open clubface will lead to a push. The conclusion is that you should work on retaining your lag angle first and then move the ball position to the left and then start to work on a take away that it will be less inside. There is plenty of information about lag available and I have chosen this high speed footage to show you how long the right hand is 'dorsi-flexed' (backwards). Christo Garcia (myswingevolution) calls this position 'shangri-la' for any reason... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7hBadAiMcA&index=159&list=UUdRcEf_HwndfoiLPb0Cgw3w Hope that makes sense. until after impact. Also take notice of the forward position of the leading edge and compare this with your position at P6. [/quote]
Wow, you picked up a lot there Golf nerd! Great stuff. Much thanks. it is very much like me to over cook a solution to a golf swing issue... like others have commented, thanks for pointing that out. Is my right elbow bending before its time because i am doing to the inside too much too soon? Where can i find a good description go the the P's you mentioned? Thanks again for your comments, much appreciated.

[madlife5]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1413021438' post='10269761'] That video of you playing basketball with your dog is AWESOME. [/quote]Haha, thank you. He loves basketball!

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1412984011' post='10268071']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1412977565' post='10267549']
Too much early right elbow bend and not enough vertical wrist set.

Fix that then move the ball forward in your stance.
[/quote]
Monte- agreed on the early elbow bend. should be a painless fix- Its something I have worked on.. guess I forgot about it with the new pieces I'm Incorporating.

Question on wrist hinge: When its it best to occur in relation to the right elbow bend? How much hinge should there be by the time the elbow starts bending?
[/quote]

No set way or youll get brian damage. A guideline is close to a 90* set when lead arm is parallel to the ground (P3)

[Golf nerd]

[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1413086308' post='10273211']
[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1413019421' post='10269739'] Hi madlife (funny name ), you made a big step to get rid of the over the top move. However, you seem to overcook the cure now. Dunno if the open clubface was the main reason for coming OTT as compensation, but it is still a little too open at P6 (shaft parallel to ground pre impact). Leading edge should have more of an angle like your spine. Usually this OTT move goes hand in hand with throw away of the lag angle, which is noticeable in your downswing at P5 (left arm parallel to the ground pre impact). Early release causes hitting behind the ball and as compensation you place the ball to the right in your stance, which is a bad spot for an open clubface pre impact, because the path is to the right and an open clubface will lead to a push. The conclusion is that you should work on retaining your lag angle first and then move the ball position to the left and then start to work on a take away that it will be less inside. There is plenty of information about lag available and I have chosen this high speed footage to show you how long the right hand is 'dorsi-flexed' (backwards). Christo Garcia (myswingevolution) calls this position 'shangri-la' for any reason... Hope that makes sense. until after impact. Also take notice of the forward position of the leading edge and compare this with your position at P6. [/quote]
Wow, you picked up a lot there Golf nerd! Great stuff. Much thanks. it is very much like me to over cook a solution to a golf swing issue... like others have commented, thanks for pointing that out. Is my right elbow bending before its time because i am doing to the inside too much too soon? Where can i find a good description go the the P's you mentioned? Thanks again for your comments, much appreciated.
[/quote]

There are several teaching methods out there. If you are interested in more theoretical input, like your questions imply, Golfing Machine might be an option. Chuck Quintons approach is also very well sort out and provides technical, visual and feel based answers and is easy to understand. Myswingevolution of Christo Garcia on youtube is a more relaxed and entertaining program borrowing from Ben Hogan and his Legacy. Christo has written an E-book about his findings and provides some valuable information, but not a step-by-step approach. Search youtube and you will find some examples of all listed methods. You will be attracted to one or another. Last but not least Monte Scheinblum and Dan Carraher alias iteach are very well known here on golfwrx and deliver a treasure of golf knowledge.

Regarding the 'P' positions here is the list:

[b]P1[/b][color=#282828] Address[/color]
[b]P2[/b][color=#282828] Clubshaft parallel with the ground (in backswing)[/color]
[b]P3[/b][color=#282828] Left arm parallel with ground (in backswing)[/color]
[b]P4[/b][color=#282828] Top of backswing[/color]
[b]P5[/b][color=#282828] Left arm parallel with ground (in downstroke)[/color]
[b]P6[/b][color=#282828] Shaft parallel with ground (in downstroke)[/color]
[b]P7[/b][color=#282828] Impact[/color]
[b]P8[/b][color=#282828] Shaft parallel with ground (in follow through)[/color]
[b]P9[/b][color=#282828] Right arm parallel with ground (in follow through)[/color]
[b]P10[/b][color=#282828] Finish[/color]

edit:
[color=#282828]In regards of your right elbow and loss of lag at the downswing it seems to be okay to move the right elbow like you do on the backswing. I personally would flatten the shaft angle at the top/transition that it appears to be in line with your left arm. On the downswing you should retain the backward angle of the right hand thru impact and when using that elbow thrust (pushing action) that should be more in direction of the target. It is advisable to learn that motion in a chip shot pattern first and then go to a pitch and so on. A good start would be to do the motion without a golf club to get a god feeling and to grasp the concept on how to move the body parts in a correct manner.[/color]

[TB07]

[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1413085136' post='10273153']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1413003000' post='10269411']
Arms can go less inward during backswing and then move faster in downswing. Here's two videos that will help ....
[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46h0UEBBMyY"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=46h0UEBBMyY[/url]

[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDygtiW8oag"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=RDygtiW8oag[/url]
[/quote]
Gotyah! I like the football drill...will give it a go. Thanks for all you help, sir. I have things to work on over the winter.
[/quote]

No problem. Good luck with it.

[madlife5]

[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1413089446' post='10273305']
There are several teaching methods out there. If you are interested in more theoretical input, like your questions imply, Golfing Machine might be an option. Chuck Quintons approach is also very well sort out and provides technical, visual and feel based answers and is easy to understand. Myswingevolution of Christo Garcia on youtube is a more relaxed and entertaining program borrowing from Ben Hogan and his Legacy. Christo has written an E-book about his findings and provides some valuable information, but not a step-by-step approach. Search youtube and you will find some examples of all listed methods. You will be attracted to one or another. Last but not least Monte Scheinblum and Dan Carraher alias iteach are very well known here on golfwrx and deliver a treasure of golf knowledge.

Regarding the 'P' positions here is the list:

[b]P1[/b][color=#282828] Address[/color]
[b]P2[/b][color=#282828] Clubshaft parallel with the ground (in backswing)[/color]
[b]P3[/b][color=#282828] Left arm parallel with ground (in backswing)[/color]
[b]P4[/b][color=#282828] Top of backswing[/color]
[b]P5[/b][color=#282828] Left arm parallel with ground (in downstroke)[/color]
[b]P6[/b][color=#282828] Shaft parallel with ground (in downstroke)[/color]
[b]P7[/b][color=#282828] Impact[/color]
[b]P8[/b][color=#282828] Shaft parallel with ground (in follow through)[/color]
[b]P9[/b][color=#282828] Right arm parallel with ground (in follow through)[/color]
[b]P10[/b][color=#282828] Finish[/color]

edit:
[color=#282828]In regards of your right elbow and loss of lag at the downswing it seems to be okay to move the right elbow like you do on the backswing. I personally would flatten the shaft angle at the top/transition that it appears to be in line with your left arm. On the downswing you should retain the backward angle of the right hand thru impact and when using that elbow thrust (pushing action) that should be more in direction of the target. It is advisable to learn that motion in a chip shot pattern first and then go to a pitch and so on. A good start would be to do the motion without a golf club to get a god feeling and to grasp the concept on how to move the body parts in a correct manner.[/color]
[/quote]

Thanks again Golf Nerd. I have seen videos from the sources you've mentioned above, but now I will revisit them with my specific needs in mind. I definitely see what you and all the other contributors are saying about needing to fix my arms in the back and downswing.

As for the positions, I was able to find this: (hopefully its not faux pas posting a link to another forum on here, apologies in advance Mr. Moderator) http://thesandtrap.com/t/53724/the-ps-positions-or-as-alignments-in-the-golf-swing

Monte- When is that "irons" video coming out??

Thanks again guys. I will have to upload another video when I think I've made enough progress.

[Golf nerd]

That's basically the same positions.

[jons1]

too much shaft lean at address, unless you're hitting a knockdown

[madlife5]

Gentlemen, Ladies:
I have taken alot of your advise and worked on incorporating them into my swing over the past week.
See new video at [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zKlfvlLah4&list=UUsPEw-aWoo4o916ZcKB4gsw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zKlfvlLah4&list=UUsPEw-aWoo4o916ZcKB4gsw[/url]

I've tried to work on:
- Ball position- Moved it more center (I didnt even know I was that far off before i saw the video), more work is needed

- Lessening shaft lean at address

- P2: Keeping shoulder and arms in sync using the football drill TB07 suggested and hitting P2 correctly. Question: Is it ok that my right elbow is already starting to bend at P2? I have tried everything possible to prevent it.... no dice.

- P3: Creating 90 degrees hinge. In this new video I think I've reached a little under 90 but looks decent to me. thoughts?

- P5- Maintaning some lag- having the left arm lead and shaft follow.


What do you guys think?? progress? or new issues?

Thanks a million agian for watching and offering your advice. Its much apprecaiated and a ton of fun looking into and experimenting with your suggestions.

[Golf nerd]

I would say you have made a big progress. Elbow is allowed to bow in backswing when shaft is around parallel to the ground.
Lag angle has improved a lot at P5. Still lose a bit too much from P6 to P7, but it takes some time. Keep on working, bro!

[madlife5]

[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1413572553' post='10306049']
I would say you have made a big progress. Elbow is allowed to bow in backswing when shaft is around parallel to the ground.
Lag angle has improved a lot at P5. Still lose a bit too much from P6 to P7, but it takes some time. Keep on working, bro!
[/quote]Means a lot, thank you!

[JPGolf FL]

Better wrist set, wrists still to firm though. Think oily wrists. You will have to let your arms swing more and focus less on pivoting. Allowing the arms to swing will allow the wrists to set and release through momentum and gravity. Just let your body support what the arms are doing. Don't think about lag angle. Let the wrist be free, swing the arms down. Def progress though.

[madlife5]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1413578074' post='10306461']
Better wrist set, wrists still to firm though. Think oily wrists. You will have to let your arms swing more and focus less on pivoting. Allowing the arms to swing will allow the wrists to set and release through momentum and gravity. Just let your body support what the arms are doing. Don't think about lag angle. Let the wrist be free, swing the arms down. Def progress though.
[/quote]
Yes! work in progress- need to work on not feeling like I'm losing control of the club.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1413730656' post='10314175']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1413578074' post='10306461']
Better wrist set, wrists still to firm though. Think oily wrists. You will have to let your arms swing more and focus less on pivoting. Allowing the arms to swing will allow the wrists to set and release through momentum and gravity. Just let your body support what the arms are doing. Don't think about lag angle. Let the wrist be free, swing the arms down. Def progress though.
[/quote]
Yes! work in progress- need to work on not feeling like I'm losing control of the club.
[/quote]
I would say the opposite. You need to give up control of the club. Need to give up control and let the club and arms swing. Tight wrists are a sign of trying to control the club too much and too much grip pressure. Loosen everything up and free-wheel it. Let that left arm swing from the top with loose wrists. Let the weight of the club set the wrist and let the weight if the club release the wrists. Feel everything swing down and past your line of sight. Don't worry about where the ball goes just try to hit it solid.

[madlife5]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1413731267' post='10314215']
[quote name='madlife5' timestamp='1413730656' post='10314175']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1413578074' post='10306461']
Better wrist set, wrists still to firm though. Think oily wrists. You will have to let your arms swing more and focus less on pivoting. Allowing the arms to swing will allow the wrists to set and release through momentum and gravity. Just let your body support what the arms are doing. Don't think about lag angle. Let the wrist be free, swing the arms down. Def progress though.
[/quote]
Yes! work in progress- need to work on not feeling like I'm losing control of the club.
[/quote]
I would say the opposite. You need to give up control of the club. Need to give up control and let the club and arms swing. Tight wrists are a sign of trying to control the club too much and too much grip pressure. Loosen everything up and free-wheel it. Let that left arm swing from the top with loose wrists. Let the weight of the club set the wrist and let the weight if the club release the wrists. Feel everything swing down and past your line of sight. Don't worry about where the ball goes just try to hit it solid.
[/quote]
I'll give it a go. I think a lot of my stiff-wristed-ness (just created a word i think) comes from felein glike I'm preventing my left wrist from cupping too much which make the club go across the line at the top of the swing. This was an issue in the past... coming to think of it, this might have been fixed already with my inside path takeaway and wrist set/hinge work I've done recently!

But I agree. Fluid wrists are needed. Thanks a million again JP! (and all you others)

[JT41L5d3]

A small thing that I noticed in your latest video is that your left foot is too turned in at address and at the end of your swing.

If you flare it out just a bit (feels like ~10*) you will follow through muchhh more comfortably and you'll be able to fully turn your hips out towards your target.

Right now it's restricting your hips a bit in the follow through and could be keeping you from releasing from the inside.

Tip: Take EVERYTHING I say with a grain of salt. (Unless others confirm my thoughts)

[madlife5]

[quote name='JT41L5d3' timestamp='1414488105' post='10361107']
A small thing that I noticed in your latest video is that your left foot is too turned in at address and at the end of your swing.

If you flare it out just a bit (feels like ~10*) you will follow through muchhh more comfortably and you'll be able to fully turn your hips out towards your target.

Right now it's restricting your hips a bit in the follow through and could be keeping you from releasing from the inside.

Tip: Take EVERYTHING I say with a grain of salt. (Unless others confirm my thoughts)
[/quote]
Thanks, JT.

I'll have to give it a go. I know I should have a little flare in the left foot but in the past, I've had problems preventing it from spinning half way through my downswing. The spinning out might not be an issue now that I'm starting with more weight on the left and keeping it there... I will post a new video soon if my instructors care to track this humble students' progress .