UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Great score, Jiggered! They look like they'd be fun to play.

[pfgiv81]

Hi All,

 

User Bigarch gave me this idea to post my question here, and Jiggered already answered in the other thread.

 

George Sayers Putter, says rustless and hand forged in Scotland on the sole. Haven't heard anything about this brand before today. Head is an 8802 style. Never seen one and google is of no help. Any information is much appreciated. Has a 3502 and a bird stamped in the flange.

 

TIA

Edited September 24, 2020 by pfgiv81

[Jiggered]

I'll just add that the bird cleek mark was used by Ben Sayers.

[mahonie]

On 9/24/2020 at 6:54 PM, pfgiv81 said:

Hi All,

 

User Bigarch gave me this idea to post my question here, and Jiggered already answered in the other thread.

 

George Sayers Putter, says rustless and hand forged in Scotland on the sole. Haven't heard anything about this brand before today. Head is an 8802 style. Never seen one and google is of no help. Any information is much appreciated. Has a 3502 and a bird stamped in the flange.

 

TIA

 

If you google search ‘George Sayers Golf Clubs’ there is an article by Bernard Sayers called ‘The Five Thousand Dollar Putter.’ Sorry to get your hopes up but it appears to be unrelated to your putter but it is an interesting story about the link between George Sayers and Ben Sayers. For some reason I can’t embed the link to the website but it is www.aicommand.com

[Jiggered]

20 hours ago, mahonie said:

 

If you google search ‘George Sayers Golf Clubs’ there is an article by Bernard Sayers called ‘The Five Thousand Dollar Putter.’ Sorry to get your hopes up but it appears to be unrelated to your putter but it is an interesting story about the link between George Sayers and Ben Sayers. For some reason I can’t embed the link to the website but it is www.aicommand.com

 

Thanks, great story, and fills the gap in my knowledge about the link between Ben Sayers and George Sayers companies.

[TheDeanAbides]

I just picked up a set of these for virtually nothing. They're in great condition and feel decent. Took the wedge over the field to hit a few balls, and despite it taking awhile to adjust to the increased swingweight over all of my Hogan blades they feel very solid. 

 

Anyone have any knowledge of the year(s) these were made and the lofts? 

 

Cheers,

Dean

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I just picked up a set of these for virtually nothing. They're in great condition and feel decent. Took the wedge over the field to hit a few balls, and despite it taking awhile to adjust to the increased swingweight over all of my Hogan blades they feel very solid. 

 

Anyone have any knowledge of the year(s) these were made and the lofts? 

 

Cheers,

Dean

These would have been late '70's / early '80's. I almost bought a set in 1981 as my first full set. Unfortunately I couldn't quite afford them as it would have taken another 6 months on my before school milk round to save the extra £50 or so they cost above the budget Dunlop's I bought instead! However, I did manage to buy the MM woods as factory seconds due to over spray lacquer on the shafts....took 5 mins with a blade to clean it off!

I still have the woods - grips still tacky 40 years on! Driver shot but 3 & 5 are good. 

I added the irons as one of my first sets when I began collecting - satisfying a 30 year + desire!

Don't know the lofts or specs - I am sure someone here can help? 

Nice irons but not as playable as i dreamt they would be. Not as good as the Slazenger Hogan's you have just acquired!

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, Foozle said:

These would have been late '70's / early '80's. I almost bought a set in 1981 as my first full set. Unfortunately I couldn't quite afford them as it would have taken another 6 months on my before school milk round to save the extra £50 or so they cost above the budget Dunlop's I bought instead! However, I did manage to buy the MM woods as factory seconds due to over spray lacquer on the shafts....took 5 mins with a blade to clean it off!

I still have the woods - grips still tacky 40 years on! Driver shot but 3 & 5 are good. 

I added the irons as one of my first sets when I began collecting - satisfying a 30 year + desire!

Don't know the lofts or specs - I am sure someone here can help? 

Nice irons but not as playable as i dreamt they would be. Not as good as the Slazenger Hogan's you have just acquired!

That age makes sense actually. My pal mentioned that they were the first set he had as a junior (he's mid fifties), so the timing would be about right. 

 

Funny you mention the grips - these are the originals and they're in amazing condition! 

[Foozle]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

That age makes sense actually. My pal mentioned that they were the first set he had as a junior (he's mid fifties), so the timing would be about right. 

 

Funny you mention the grips - these are the originals and they're in amazing condition! 

As I recall, they may have been end of line in '81 and so reduced in price to fall tantalisingly just above my spending limit! 

The grips are an enigma. Look like Victory grips but stay soft even after 40 years! Mine got a lot of use too.

Shafts have a funny double step pattern? Torsion something....?

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, Foozle said:

As I recall, they may have been end of line in '81 and so reduced in price to fall tantalisingly just above my spending limit! 

The grips are an enigma. Look like Victory grips but stay soft even after 40 years! Mine got a lot of use too.

Shafts have a funny double step pattern? Torsion something....?

Ah, that old conundrum - whether to wait and save for the thing you want or make do with something you can use now! 

 

I'll pull them out of the cellar again (took delivery of three sets this week, so my partner insisted on moving them all out of the way...) and look at the shafts after dinner. 

 

I wonder if the grips will last forever??

[Jiggered]

I'd agree with Foozle on the date, the earliest advert I've seen for these is dated 1981, not to say that they weren't released before then.

The style is the long running reverse muscle back, used for so long by Letters in their Master Model series, but I think this was one of the last times they used that style.

[elwhippy]

John Letters re-issued the Master Model in the early 90s if my memory serves me. Very high quality forgings and as with all JL sets great looking short irons. Do they have Apollo Masterflex shafts or TT offerings? 

[TheDeanAbides]

22 minutes ago, elwhippy said:

John Letters re-issued the Master Model in the early 90s if my memory serves me. Very high quality forgings and as with all JL sets great looking short irons. Do they have Apollo Masterflex shafts or TT offerings? 

I just took a stroll into Narnia (the cellar) and had a look. They're the TTs. 

[Jiggered]

6 hours ago, elwhippy said:

John Letters re-issued the Master Model in the early 90s if my memory serves me. Very high quality forgings and as with all JL sets great looking short irons. Do they have Apollo Masterflex shafts or TT offerings? 

 

How could I have forgotten those, I assume you're referring to the Fred Daly Open Champion 1947 model?

Going on the date I'd guess that these were to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that win so would be around 1996/97.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, elwhippy said:

John Letters re-issued the Master Model in the early 90s if my memory serves me. Very high quality forgings and as with all JL sets great looking short irons. Do they have Apollo Masterflex shafts or TT offerings? 

These? They're delicious looking.

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

 

How could I have forgotten those, I assume you're referring to the Fred Daly Open Champion 1947 model?

Going on the date I'd guess that these were to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that win so would be around 1996/97.

 

Stunning set of irons!

The profile looks similar to these from my collection. I have these 2-SW.

They almost look like blanks? The hostel is stamped "Hand Made". Going by the shafts and ferrules I had guessed at possibly 40th anniversary (1987) but always been curious?

Any thoughts / information welcome!

 

[Jiggered]

7 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Stunning set of irons!

The profile looks similar to these from my collection. I have these 2-SW.

They almost look like blanks? The hostel is stamped "Hand Made". Going by the shafts and ferrules I had guessed at possibly 40th anniversary (1987) but always been curious?

Any thoughts / information welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

I've not seen that set before.

 

It's very similar to the PGA European Tour Master Model, below is the only picture I have of the PGA version and you can see the similarities, right down to the script on the hosel.

The script style of "Letters" on yours is certainly a later version. The PGA European Tour Forged was released around 1985 (pictured below) so I'd say the PGA Master Model was similar in date.

Perhaps the Master Model 47 was released after the association with the PGA Tour had ended and was using up blanks, or maybe it was the other way round and the PGA Master Model used blanks from the 47 version, but the "Letters" script style on yours me pushes towards the PGA version being first.

 

Whichever way round, lovely clubs!

 

[Foozle]

12 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

I've not seen that set before.

 

It's very similar to the PGA European Tour Master Model, below is the only picture I have of the PGA version and you can see the similarities, right down to the script on the hosel.

The script style of "Letters" on yours is certainly a later version. The PGA European Tour Forged was released around 1985 (pictured below) so I'd say the PGA Master Model was similar in date.

Perhaps the Master Model 47 was released after the association with the PGA Tour had ended and was using up blanks, or maybe it was the other way round and the PGA Master Model used blanks from the 47 version, but the "Letters" script style on yours me pushes towards the PGA version being first.

 

Whichever way round, lovely clubs!

 

Jiggered, once again you have come up trumps!

The profile of the PGA Master Model looks identical to mine. Matching hostel script makes it a done deal.

The '85 date would tie in with my guess at an 1987 40th a anniversary model. So it seems logical that the PGA model came first and mine were a sensible way to use up any left over blanks.

More than happy with that as a theory! Mystery solved!

Many thanks.

[OldTom]

I was given this set of Dai Rees New Master irons. "Micro Milled" in 1959 I believe.

Edited November 14, 2020 by OldTom

[Foozle]

46 minutes ago, OldTom said:

I was given this set of Dai Rees New Master irons. "Micro Milled" in 1959 I believe.

Interesting grind on the toe. Is that as they were made or a bit of customising?

Nice looking irons.

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, OldTom said:

I was given this set of Dai Rees New Master irons. "Micro Milled" in 1959 I believe.

 

The Dai Rees New Master came out in 1953, your Micro-Milled version was later so 1959 sounds in the right area.

 

Foozle, that's how the ones I've seen look so I think how they were made. 

It's a bit of the Hogan Power Thrust look, which I believe came out in 1960.

 

 

[Foozle]

22 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

The Dai Rees New Master came out in 1953, your Micro-Milled version was later so 1959 sounds in the right area.

 

Foozle, that's how the ones I've seen look so I think how they were made. 

It's a bit of the Hogan Power Thrust look, which I believe came out in 1960.

 

 

Jiggered, that is what I was thinking. A bit more exaggerated in the Power Thrusts.

[Jiggered]

A question that's puzzled me for a few years is when the Slazenger/Bobby Locke relationship began and when the first "Bobby Locke" clubs appeared, this includes Gradidge who were part of Slazenger but still trading under the Gradidge name.

 

An old copy of Golf World (April 1968) I was reading today just gave a very good indication.  

After winning the 1938 Irish Open aged 18 (beating Henry Cotton by a shot), Bobby Locke was offered a contract by Slazenger to tour Australia and New Zealand.  The article doesn't say if this included "Bobby Locke" clubs and I'd be surprised if it did as he was still a very young player and relatively untried and unknown on the Professional stage.

The war followed soon after but when peace returned Locke began playing again and swiftly started to make his presence felt, including winning The Open in 1949, 1950, 1952 and once more in 1957. 

 

I'd assume that with their existing connection Slazenger were quickly able to make use of his new found fame and I'd guess clubs began to appear in the late 1940s or early 1950s, still a bit approximate but it does make me feel it wouldn't have been likely that any clubs with his name would've been produced pre-WWII.

 

The earliest looking clubs I've seen have been a set of Gradidge blades with coated steel shaft that resemble the pre-war Gradidge clubs and it would have been an easy matter to stamp his name on the back of them without having to go to the expense of newly designed clubs in the cash-strapped immediate post war years. Club shown below alongside a plain Gradidge club of similar style.

 

The next example is the Bobby Locke Triple Crown, again by Gradidge, which must be referring to his third Open win in 1952, this club is mentioned in an advert in Svensk Golf, April 1953, picture below.

 

The earliest Slazenger model I can accurately date is the Bobby Locke Personal which appears in the 1956/57 PGCA catalogue, picture below.

 

If anyone can confirm these dates or add any more detail on the Slazenger/Locke relationship I'd love to hear from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Jiggered

[TheDeanAbides]

I've had about a week to play around with the John Letters irons alongside the Slazenger Hogan Starbursts I bought at the same time, and it's clear which I prefer. The Starbursts already feel like an extension of my arms - I love them dearly. The JLs are an odd set. They look lovely and they feel solid off the face, but I'm really struggling with low point control with them. I can only put that down to swing weight, which seems higher than any of the Hogan irons I own. 

[TheDeanAbides]

I've started the process of refurbing my Slazenger Hogan Starbursts. This is after a proper polish with my drill attachments. I used Maguire's cutting compound and then a pass with their polish. I wouldn't use car polish on chrome irons, but it's perfectly fine for SS. I think this look fantastic and I can't wait to sort the grooves out and fill the paint in. 

[Jiggered]

Latest addition, Dunlop "Tony Jacklin" Contour Sole, from 1973.

 

Check out those ferrules, yes, purple!

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Jiggered

[TheDeanAbides]

34 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

Latest addition, Dunlop "Tony Jacklin" Contour Sole, from 1973.

 

Check out those ferrules, yes, purple!

 

Those are really nice. I was born in '73. Definitely need some irons from that year. 

[Jiggered]

3 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Those are really nice. I was born in '73. Definitely need some irons from that year. 

 

In addition to the Tony Jacklins, I believe that the below all currently on ebay UK are also 1973, the Roberto de Vicenzo are particularly nice.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dunlop-Maxfli-by-Roberto-de-Vicenzo-irons/313318549218?hash=item48f33da6e2:g:x3MAAOSwGJJfwC5w

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dunlop-Peter-Thomson-Irons-2-SW-Regular-Steel-Shafts-Good-Used-Condition/184558437444?hash=item2af88a4444:g:CRcAAOSweNpfw5BI

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Slazenger-Peter-Oosterhuis-Iron-Set-3-9-Right-Handed/174472169420?hash=item289f5a07cc:g:jNIAAOSwehZfgMqD

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-GOLF-IRONS-CRAIGTON-IRONS/333807269310?hash=item4db876b5be:g:JKcAAOSwXYJfVOnV

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

In addition to the Tony Jacklins, I believe that the below all currently on ebay UK are also 1973, the Roberto de Vicenzo are particularly nice.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dunlop-Maxfli-by-Roberto-de-Vicenzo-irons/313318549218?hash=item48f33da6e2:g:x3MAAOSwGJJfwC5w

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dunlop-Peter-Thomson-Irons-2-SW-Regular-Steel-Shafts-Good-Used-Condition/184558437444?hash=item2af88a4444:g:CRcAAOSweNpfw5BI

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Slazenger-Peter-Oosterhuis-Iron-Set-3-9-Right-Handed/174472169420?hash=item289f5a07cc:g:jNIAAOSwehZfgMqD

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-GOLF-IRONS-CRAIGTON-IRONS/333807269310?hash=item4db876b5be:g:JKcAAOSwXYJfVOnV

Stop it now. 😆 I've bought four sets this month already!

[TheDeanAbides]

@Jiggered, when I do buy a set from my birth year they will definitely be the '73 Apexes. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by TheDeanAbides