Could a 12 handicapper....

[f22beaver]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427755948' post='11248245']
I'm in. People say, oh I hit my blades fine, I'm a good ball striker, when in reality if they played with someone who was truly a top level player they would see what good ball striking actually is. Good ball striking is a 200 yard, 90 foot high 5 iron that cuts or turns over 5 yards.
[/quote]
If I was type of person to just type 'this,' then I probably would do it for your last sentence. I thought I played with people who were good ball strikers then I went to the PGA at Valhalla last August and I was blown away.

[tdelam]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427763335' post='11249215']
[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427762975' post='11249151']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427762147' post='11249009']
[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427761964' post='11248983']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427761880' post='11248971']
You said... if you dont break par.... you are doing a disservice working shots? Why? I dont understand why it would be a disservice to work a ball under the circumstance. I detailed my 18th hole shot that I did work into the pin and hit it in regulation under some pretty extreme circumstances on demand and it worked in my favor. I know for a fact I would never be able to do that with my JPX825pro 4 iron nor my TM 3 rescue.

While we can say the shot was lucky.... I still did it under the circumstances on demand....so it was not impossible.......HOW was that a disservice to my game?
[/quote]

It's not, don't even let that get in your head, I don't know where he got that from... don't feed that nonsense.
[/quote]

tdelam, I can only assume you've never played at a truly high level, or with those who do? I could be wrong. The majority of the pros don't even work the ball both ways unless they have to, around a tree etc. There are some that do, sure.
[/quote]

Yep, I used to play on Canadian tours, I know everything about everything!

Not really... but it's easy to say online I think you can see what I am getting at.

I agree about working when required and play a natural shape most of the time but to say that you shouldn't try to cut or draw to a tucked pin is silly. Try it and plan a miss, if you nail it then awesome, you will benefit greatly, if you miss then oh well, chances are you are left with a long putt, much like the putt you'd have if you didn't try! Worst case is you have to chip it on and try to save a par!
[/quote]

I don't know everything about everything, I just know a lot about what it takes to play good golf. I mean actual good golf, not break 80 "good golf."
[/quote]

I think that's great, for you. But, I think I'll take a pro's advice any day over a guy on a forum. You found your recipe that works for you, not for all people can benefit from that, most should, I agree, but not all.

[Nine Miler]

tdelam....

You have to find something that resonates for you, whatever it is. I respect that.

[Hit em good]

[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427763448' post='11249235']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

That's interesting, I just got fitted for blades by a [i]very[/i] reputable fitter. Worse, my 6-iron swing speed is <80 mph. It might be because I don't use very much of the club face, I'm not going to hit it any farther with a CB, my big miss is neither heel or toe. It's the occasional thin/heavy.
[/quote]

Nah, cb's for you...

[DeNinny]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427761470' post='11248917']
So you mock blade players with this zealous post and you wonder why threads get shut down?

Why are you so afraid of blades? They are fun and the ball control is something else.


**so you are saying there arent blade zealots here and that they dont say such things....oh ok

i learned to play w. blades..that was clearly the hard way to learn.....prob played them for 15 years or more, but thanks for schooling me about them..talk about making assumptions..... as you know i'm really not interested in trying to have any sort of 'discussion' w. you....you may of course (as always) have last word. bye now
[/quote]

What I'm saying is that whether or not there are blade zealots (IMHO there aren't), you shouldn't mock them and that is why threads get shut down. That's all I meant with my post. Sorry for the confusion. There are a lot of a$$holes that exist on these forums but there's no need to call it out.

I see you have your own zeal against blades, but there's no need for anybody to mock you and call you an anti-blade zealot. See how that may be viewed as disrespectful?

It's also interesting you respond to someone you are not interested in having a discussion with. Did you post because you were a just a little interested or because you wanted to call it out and then claim you weren't interested? Just curious. No need to respond.

[tdelam]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427764035' post='11249315']
tdelam....

You have to find something that resonates for you, whatever it is. I respect that.
[/quote]

Nah, not really It's just tough to tell someone who's been playing blades his whole life (not me, of course, I started very very late in life) that he should play GI irons because the marketing department said so or because someone on a forum thinks he should, which might be true for most. While the OP is probably not the same case as the latter, he might find something he's been looking for and here you are telling him to not even bother, lol

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427764463' post='11249361']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427764035' post='11249315']
tdelam....

You have to find something that resonates for you, whatever it is. I respect that.
[/quote]

Nah, not really It's just tough to tell someone who's been playing blades his whole life (not me, of course, I started very very late in life) that he should play GI irons because the marketing department said so or because someone on a forum thinks he should. While the OP is probably not the same case as the latter, he might find something he's been looking for and here you are telling him to not even bother, lol
[/quote]

I didn't say play a GI iron. I don't even think there is a lot of benefit to a CB in short iron. But a full bag of blades, would be poor advice. 8, 9, Pw knock yourself out. I play a small forged CB. It's dang near a blade but has that little bit extra that helps, especially in the mid and long irons.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

ding ding ding !! ya man..... along those lines, a company like titleist will say that their MB irons are designed for the low handicapper and pros..they may say something like a 5 cap and lower.......why do they say that? well because they are designed for the low handicapper, and not for someone who isnt a really good ball striker.....for them to suggest otherwise would make them look and be foolish..the marketing part of that one is when they say something like..'you too can play what the pros play'..the blade 'pundents' (can i say pundents?) say that titleist has a lot of balls telling us what to play...blades really arent that hard to hit, and etc etc. farther along these lines is when posters here proclaim stock drivers shafts as all crap...that seems to have subsided thank goodness...like any respectable manufacturer would install a non performing shaft into one of their heads.

but yes, by all means, people should play w. whatever gear they want to for whatever reasons they want even if the reason isnt to play their best golf..it;s their money. but if they post bad info, they should expect to receive something contradictory in return

[gvogel]

Play whatever you want to play.

But, try a whole bunch of other clubs if you want to play the best that you can play.

I'm a 7 handicap. Sure, I can play with AP2's, and I have hickory clubs that are true blades. I can play with those. I might even maintain that practicing with them, and playing with them, have made me a better ball striker.

But, I would have to confess that given my ability level, consistency of strike, swing speed and "golf athleticism", I play my best with my AP1's, day in and day out. And I am OK with that; Ben Curtis won a tournament on the PGA Tour using the same model of AP1's that I enjoy.

Shucks, I have a friend who carries a 4 handicap, has won his club championship over 8 times, and has even won our district golf championship. He plays with AP1's and graphite shafts. My friend is not long, but he is seriously straight, and seriously consistent. He doesn't make judgement errors - well, maybe twice a month. He plays with clubs that give him the best chance of scoring.

I say - be open to playing with clubs that give you the best chance for consistent ball striking. Not the longest, the most consistent.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427764713' post='11249405']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

ding ding ding !! ya man..... along those lines, a company like titleist will say that their MB irons are designed for the low handicapper and pros..they may say something like a 5 cap and lower.......why do they say that? well because they are designed for the low handicapper, and not for someone who isnt a really good ball striker.....for them to suggest otherwise would make them look and be foolish..the marketing part of that one is when they say something like..'you too can play what the pros play'..the blade 'pundents' (can i say pundents?) say that titleist has a lot of balls telling us what to play...blades really arent that hard to hit, and etc etc. farther along these lines is when posters here proclaim stock drivers shafts as all crap...that seems to have subsided thank goodness...like any respectable manufacturer would install a non performing shaft into one of their heads.

but yes, by all means, people should play w. whatever gear they want to for whatever reasons they want even if the reason isnt to play their best golf..it;s their money. but if they post bad info, they should expect to receive something contradictory in return
[/quote]


You know what..... I am going to put in a little plug in this..... I kinda agree... this is why.....


While Blades is the Ultimate of Shot control and ball flight.... Tech has really blended the line.....

The new CB's have workability, lets say 80% of the workability that a blade does....... any normal Sunday hacker can use that 80%

With the advancement of shafting, we can get a lower ball flight from just changing the shaft while getting the forgiveness factor....

Here is an example....


I used the excuse of playing blades because they launch lower than my JPXpros....

Now the Blades have X100s in them and the Mizuno's have Dynalits XP S300

Totally different shafts.... thats partly reason why the Mizunos go so high.

So if I put in some X100s or another type of lower launching shaft. I may be able to get the best of both worlds. The JPX's are still compact and low offset, and with the right shafting I can get a lower flight......with decent amount of workability...... Its not impossible to draw, hook, fade slice, the JPX's just because they are GI's......

so you are right.... a fitter would probably put them in a CB/GI with the right shafting rather then a straight in set of MB's

Titleist in a scene created their own demise, buy making the AP2....those are as blend GI/CB/MB as it gets..... pretty much the best of "all" worlds LOL

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427760053' post='11248739']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427759795' post='11248721']
So you mock blade players with this zealous post and you wonder why threads get shut down?

Why are you so afraid of blades? They are fun and the ball control is something else.
[/quote]

DeNinny, if you don't regularly break par, you are doing yourself a disservice trying to work the ball into pins.
[/quote]

Thanks but there are definitely times where that shot is called for and no I don't do it all the time. I also have learned so much about working the ball and how to do it by trying with my blades. I can tell you it is easier with a blade and a CB gives more inconsistent results than my blades. Also I can work the blade to get OUT of trouble better than my CBs too, so the blade is better (at times) for saving a bad hole as much as scoring on a good hole.

I think you do me and yourself a disservice by not knowing my game and how I swing but yet you tell me how to play this game.

But...while we are at it...I also think you do yourself a disservice by forming your opinion without a lot of personal experience switching back and forth between playing a blade and a CB. Here is how I gained my personal experience: for the last 8 years I have been playing MP-60s and MP-67s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts. I have switched back and forth between these sets from a 16 index to a 7.5 and what I found is that I score the same on average with either set and I can shoot my personal bests (77 as a 15 index, 76 as a 12 index, and 75 as a 7.5 index) with my blades. The best I have ever shot with my CBs is a 77 and I have only broken 80 three times with them vs I have broken 80 about eight times with my blades. So anyway, do you have a similar personal experience in how you formed your opinion on whether or not a 12 index can play blades? Or was it based on what you think somebody else should be playing through observation?

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427760997' post='11248843']
You should all get some 13.5* 3 woods to go with your blades because, ya know, Toursauce.
[/quote]

yo i play a 13 degree 3 wood and can hit that well (relative to my handicap) unless an uneven lie or no grass under my ball...then i pull the 16 hybrid.....but i would never think of playing blades....that would just be dumb.

i;ve decided to pass on creating that thread..i;m sure you understand...

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

[quote name='SeanPMcD' timestamp='1427748632' post='11247495']
Only way to improve to me is to play better clubs. I switched from cavity back to my current set of MP32's and I think it helped improve my iron play. I could get immediate feedback if it was a good or bad shot and I could get a clue on what I was doing wrong. I couldn't get that with the cavity backs.
[/quote]

Your a 6 hcp and play blades, I'm a 2 and play i25's. How can this be? You should be better than me because you play blades.

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427760053' post='11248739']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427759795' post='11248721']
So you mock blade players with this zealous post and you wonder why threads get shut down?

Why are you so afraid of blades? They are fun and the ball control is something else.
[/quote]

DeNinny, if you don't regularly break par, you are doing yourself a disservice trying to work the ball into pins.
[/quote]

Thanks but there are definitely times where that shot is called for and no I don't do it all the time. I also have learned so much about working the ball and how to do it by trying with my blades. I can tell you it is easier with a blade and a CB gives more inconsistent results than my blades. Also I can work the blade to get OUT of trouble better than my CBs too, so the blade is better (at times) for saving a bad hole as much as scoring on a good hole.

I think you do me and yourself a disservice by not knowing my game and how I swing but yet you tell me how to play this game.

But...while we are at it...I also think you do yourself a disservice by forming your opinion without a lot of personal experience switching back and forth between playing a blade and a CB. Here is how I gained my personal experience: for the last 8 years I have been playing MP-60s and MP-67s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts. I have switched back and forth between these sets from a 16 index to a 7.5 and what I found is that I score the same on average with either set and I can shoot my personal bests (77 as a 15 index, 76 as a 12 index, and 75 as a 7.5 index) with my blades. The best I have ever shot with my CBs is a 77 and I have only broken 80 three times with them vs I have broken 80 about eight times with my blades. So anyway, do you have a similar personal experience in how you formed your opinion on whether or not a 12 index can play blades? Or was it based on what you think somebody else should be playing through observation?
[/quote]

I started playing the game with blades. Had Mp14s and then Hogan Apex blades, and then titleist 681s. I realized in college I was wasting shots with them, when it was important to hit high straight long irons. Maybe the 12 handicapper already hits long, high, pure irons, but I didn't with my blades. This was right as hybrids were starting to come out.

I didn't trade out the long irons for a hybrid for a long long time, but my junior year I got a set that was 2-5 Taylormade RAC OS and 6-PW RAC LT. The first tournament I played with them I shot 69/68/69. Started the next tournament with two rounds in the 60s. I stuck with those for awhile after shooting 5 straight rounds under 70.

I switched after college to 2006 callaway x forged irons, and played those until last year. Now I have Nike Vr Forged Pro combos which are still darn small for a CB. I also take the 3 iron out most of the time in favor of an Adams Pro Mini.

[BMC]

(sigh) the old blade debate goes on and on. Some of you are making the thread about you and not about the OPs question.

OP: Yes, you can play blades. The center of the clubface is the same on all irons.

[Nine Miler]

True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766247' post='11249613']
True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.
[/quote]


bbbahhhhh..... Wait........

The sweet spot is still right in the middle of a GI or a Blade....... The overal Sweet spot may be smaller but the center is still the center regardless of irons...

What is the result of a center hit 7iron GI vs a 7 iron MB..... nothing it goes exactly where you intend it to go.......





LOL Sorry I had too

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427766368' post='11249623']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766247' post='11249613']
True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.
[/quote]


bbbahhhhh..... Wait........

The sweet spot is still right in the middle of a GI or a Blade....... The overal Sweet spot may be smaller but the center is still the center regardless of irons...

What is the result of a center hit 7iron GI vs a 7 iron MB..... nothing it goes exactly where you intend it to go.......





LOL Sorry I had too
[/quote]

Not what I was saying, again. Comprehension. I'm talking about mishits.

Difference in a center hit on a GI club and blade, let's see. 7 iron for 7 iron? Same shafts? GI goes longer, higher and spins less.

[Marand]

In 1960, when there were no cavity-back game improvement irons - [i]every[/i] iron was a 'blade', persimmon-headed woods, and wound balata balls, the average amateur 18 hole score was 100.

In 2014, 30 years [size=5][b][u][i]after[/i][/u][/b][/size] the introduction of scientifically designed cavity-backed game improvement irons and enlarged trampoline-faced metal woods that are now played by the great majority of amateur golfers with hot performance solid-core golf balls, the average amateur 18 hole score is still 100.




Offered without comment.

[buzlin]

Why are we talking about pros and + hdcps? The OP is an 11 who wants to try MBs and wants to eventually get better. Does he need to play MBs? Probably not. Does anyone really? Thats not the point. He didn't ask what irons will help him score the best right now with his current game. He's learning, he's experimenting, he's experiencing the game, he's willing to take risks. It's not like it's lif or death.

[Sean2]

Sure.

[knock it close]

[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427766587' post='11249663']
In 1960, when there were no cavity-back game improvement irons - [i]every[/i] iron was a 'blade', persimmon-headed woods, and wound balata balls, the average amateur 18 hole score was 100.

In 2014, 30 years [size=5][b][u][i]after[/i][/u][/b][/size] the introduction of scientifically designed cavity-backed game improvement irons and enlarged trampoline-faced metal woods that are now played by the great majority of amateur golfers with hot performance solid-core golf balls, the average amateur 18 hole score is still 100.




Offered without comment.
[/quote]And back in 1960's golf was not as popular as it is today. Generally it was played at country clubs by more affluent members. These guys had more time/money to get lessons and the club atmosphere probably inspired them to become better golfers.

[BMC]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766501' post='11249641']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427766368' post='11249623']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766247' post='11249613']
True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.
[/quote]


bbbahhhhh..... Wait........

The sweet spot is still right in the middle of a GI or a Blade....... The overal Sweet spot may be smaller but the center is still the center regardless of irons...

What is the result of a center hit 7iron GI vs a 7 iron MB..... nothing it goes exactly where you intend it to go.......





LOL Sorry I had too
[/quote]

Not what I was saying, again. Comprehension. I'm talking about mishits.

Difference in a center hit on a GI club and blade, let's see. 7 iron for 7 iron? Same shafts? GI goes longer, higher and spins less.
[/quote]

Yeah but...what if he wants to hit it a specific yardage, with a lower trajectory, and more spin to hold the green? He'd want the blade.

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='buzlin' timestamp='1427766616' post='11249667']
Why are we talking about pros and + hdcps? The OP is an 11 who wants to try MBs and wants to eventually get better. Does he need to play MBs? Probably not. Does anyone really? Thats not the point. He didn't ask what irons will help him score the best right now with his current game. He's learning, he's experimenting, he's experiencing the game, he's willing to take risks. It's not like it's lif or death.
[/quote]

We are talking about pros and + handicaps because even a % of those guys feel they are better off with something more forgiving than a blade.

So, carry that on down to a 12 handicap, and they are probably better off with something more forgiving than a blade.

Hey, this was fun, anyway. Always wanted to post in one of these threads, I think this one will hold me over for another few years.

[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1427766874' post='11249719']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766501' post='11249641']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427766368' post='11249623']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766247' post='11249613']
True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.
[/quote]


bbbahhhhh..... Wait........

The sweet spot is still right in the middle of a GI or a Blade....... The overal Sweet spot may be smaller but the center is still the center regardless of irons...

What is the result of a center hit 7iron GI vs a 7 iron MB..... nothing it goes exactly where you intend it to go.......





LOL Sorry I had too
[/quote]

Not what I was saying, again. Comprehension. I'm talking about mishits.

Difference in a center hit on a GI club and blade, let's see. 7 iron for 7 iron? Same shafts? GI goes longer, higher and spins less.
[/quote]

Yeah but...what if he wants to hit it a specific yardage, with a lower trajectory, and more spin to hold the green? He'd want the blade.
[/quote]

You're right, he would. Sigh.

[JasonFL]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427750298' post='11247679']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427750144' post='11247665']
I'm going to start the outrage and get flamed but the answer is-

Can you? Yes
Should you? [b]Absolutely not[/b]
[/quote]

Im going to throw the gas on the flame.....

We cant honestly know the answer without knowing his game..... OP might be able to use them. We dont know anything other than he is a 12.

A 12 could be a good ball striker, but a crappy shorty game or a crappy driver of the ball.
[/quote]

^^^ This

My score comes from 75% poor driving. The rest is not practicing my short game.

Ill take a little negative feed back on poor swings. The piercing ball flight in Florida's never ending 20 mph wind days is worth it.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427766247' post='11249613']
True, but the area around the center is much smaller on a blade.
[/quote]

Nobody can define the actual sweet spot size of either type of iron. Please quantify how much smaller is smaller between a blade and CB sweet spot. I'd love to see the measurement or formula.

It's just like the lack of scoring data that says a blade hurts your score: it doesn't exist.

[buzlin]

Nine, you're right about really good golfers who fight for strokes and know their game. But I contend that as an 11 who likely plays for fun and seems to want or have interest in improving eventually, I take the position that trying MBs at this stage in his game will have nothing but a positive outcome. That includes the possibility of him figuring out that he will never bag MBs ever again

[Exactice808]

[quote name='buzlin' timestamp='1427767659' post='11249835']
Nine, you're right about really good golfers who fight for strokes and know their game. But I contend that as an 11 who likely plays for fun and seems to want or have interest in improving eventually, I take the position that trying MBs at this stage in his game will have nothing but a positive outcome. [b]That includes the possibility of him figuring out that he will never bag MBs ever again[/b]
[/quote]

Ouch but QUOTE FOR THE MOTHA !@#$% TRUTH!!! LOL!

Been down this path! LOL

and Nine busting your balls about the off center hits I know what you meant LOL!

[DeNinny]

[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1427767617' post='11249825']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427750298' post='11247679']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427750144' post='11247665']
I'm going to start the outrage and get flamed but the answer is-

Can you? Yes
Should you? [b]Absolutely not[/b]
[/quote]

Im going to throw the gas on the flame.....

We cant honestly know the answer without knowing his game..... OP might be able to use them. We dont know anything other than he is a 12.

A 12 could be a good ball striker, but a crappy shorty game or a crappy driver of the ball.
[/quote]

^^^ This

My score comes from 75% poor driving. The rest is not practicing my short game.

Ill take a little negative feed back on poor swings. The piercing ball flight in Florida's never ending 20 mph wind days is worth it.
[/quote]

Same here. When I am driving the ball in the fairway and putting/chipping well, I shoot my better scores. This is even when my iron ballstriking is not good that day, regardless of the iron I have.

Let's look at the number of times a mid or long iron is important for a 12 index. 3 or 4 times per round at max? Compare that to # of putts, # of chips, # of pitches, and # of drives per round. It's not even close, and it's not like a CB player would hit all of those mid/long iron shots well anyway.

I'll take the negative feedback and better workability at the expense of a longer mishit using blades. I still have to get up and down from 15 yards out, so what if there's an extra 5 because of the blade? It's still the same percentage up and down shot at my level.

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427768077' post='11249901']
[quote name='buzlin' timestamp='1427767659' post='11249835']
Nine, you're right about really good golfers who fight for strokes and know their game. But I contend that as an 11 who likely plays for fun and seems to want or have interest in improving eventually, I take the position that trying MBs at this stage in his game will have nothing but a positive outcome. [b]That includes the possibility of him figuring out that he will never bag MBs ever again[/b]
[/quote]

Ouch buth QUOTE FOR THE MOTHA !@#$% TRUTH!!! LOL!

Been down this path! LOL

and Nine busting your balls about the off center hits I know what you meant LOL!
[/quote]

This thread is sweet. I bet all of the guys I'm internet fighting with would be super cool in real life.

So, the other day I saw this cat at the range with Miura tourney blades hitting one sizzler after another. I lol'd. I'm sure that's rare, but it was sort of funny.

Which one of you was it? Huh? Huh?